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...if you get some of the private land tags available here in Colorado, a .257 Roberts is more than sufficient for shooting a cow off the ranchers alfalfa field, I just don't suggest if for more challenging conditions. Most guys who hunt wild public lands will tell you a .270 Winchester with a 150gr Nosler Partition is about the minimum for such conditions, with the edge going to something in the 300 to 375 WM range.


The cow Eileen killed with a .257 was taken on a damage hunt on a local ranch, because the local herd was coming off of public land to raid alfalfa fields at night. But they only came out at night--and though we were the only people hunting during the period, there had already been 3 hunters ahead of us. That's the way the Montana department often arranges damage hunts: One hunter gets to hunt the place until killing an elk, then the next person on the list gets called.

Consequently by the time Eileen got called it resembled hunting public land more than private. It took us 4 days to get her a shot during legal light, because they were on public land most of the day--where her hunt wasn't legal. Only near dark did they start filtering down toward the fields.

On the 4th evening it finally came together. We found the narrow draw through thick timber they were using, and managed to get within about 100 yards of a cow that stood quartering away uphill on the far side of the draw, There wasn't time to wait for the "ideal" broadside shot, so Eileen aimed for the far shoulder. I expected the elk to go 30-50 yards before keeling over, but instead it dropped right there, flopped its head a couple times, and lay still. It turned out this was because the 100 TTSX cracked the bottom of the spine on its way to the shoulder--where we found it under the hide, close to 3 feet of penetration. In fact, it was a LOT like most of the public-land elk hunting we do.

Five years later she killed a huge old cow--as big as many mature bulls--in a cattle pasture on another damage hunt. But that time she used her "big rifle," a custom lightweight .308 with the 130-grain TTSX handloaded to around 2900 fps. This time the cow quartered toward us at around 250 yards, and Eileen put the bullet just above of the big shoulder knuckle. That cow did manage to go about 20-25 yards before falling, but it was obviously dead on its feet. The bullet broke the thick leg bone and, again, angled through both lungs before ending up under the hide in the middle of the far ribs.


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Hello John, I know you’ve hunted alotta locales, you ever hunt western wa or nw Oregon? Thanks jud


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Nope, the closest I've come is NW Montana, in the steep, thick-timber country near the Idaho Panhandle. Don't know how it compares, but a 100-yard shot is pretty rare, and most are less than 50--often much less.


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Copy that, been in those locales as well. Does locales dictate your cartridge?


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To a certain extent, but the possible presence of grizzlies tends to affect my choice more. They're far more widespread and numerous in Montana than when I started hunting--which is another way locale affects the choice!


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What’s the deal with grizzlies during elk season in Montana? At what point do they start hibernation, if at all? Are grizzlies located throughout Montana?

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Originally Posted by Mule Deer
To a certain extent, but the possible presence of grizzlies tends to affect my choice more. They're far more widespread and numerous in Montana than when I started hunting--which is another way locale affects the choice!


So the minimal chance of a grizz encounter trumps all else? Just curious, Hunted around grizz lots,never gave grizz a second thought.

Last edited by Judman; 07/03/21.

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Originally Posted by Jeffrey
What’s the deal with grizzlies during elk season in Montana? At what point do they start hibernation, if at all? Are grizzlies located throughout Montana?


Hibernation should be late November give or take, depending on weather and available food. Snowfall and terrain/available food are quite a bit different from say NW Montana to SW Montana. With wolves now being in the mix, some grizzly bears may stay out longer if they can take over kills from the wolves. Heavier snow at the right time would probably send them to the den.

Grizzlies could show up just about anywhere in western Montana and for some distance east of the rocky mountain front out onto the prairies in some areas. May even show up in or near mountains in central Montana. Eastern Montana shouldn't have any at this point.

I'm sure they are reestablishing populations in Idaho. They can also be found in NE and NC Washington and there are even a few rare ones to be found in the Cascades. They can cover large distances and some wander.


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Judman,

No, the "minimal" chance of a grizzly encounter doesn't trump all else.

I have hunted (and fished) a lot around grizzlies from Montana to Alaska, and aside from being bluff-charged more than once, had one try to take a freshly-killed moose away from me in British Columbia. (Have also taken one grizzly, in Alaska.)

One factor here in Montana is that it's been almost 30 years since we had a hunting season, and many bears have lost any fear around people--one reason we generally have at least one mauling a year, often fatal. Last fall I had a mule deer doe tag in an area where there was a chance of encountering a grizzly, so used a little more gun than I would have otherwise, my NULA .30-06 with 175-grain Barnes LRX's. It worked fine on the doe, with typical minimal meat damage.


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These days the chance of a grizzly bear encounter in the North Cascades is slim but not impossible. In several units in NE Washington, hunters must pass a grizzly bear / black bear identification test before hunting those units. But a close encounter in Montana years ago prompted me to bump up from my trusty .308w to a .338 WM, which was a poor shooter perhaps a lemon. I traded it for a .35 Whelen and never looked back until smitten with the Weatherby bug in 2010. I have seen various hunters in and out of our group use several calibers over the years but a few stand out. My son and my long time pard in crime both use 7mm Rem Mags with great results. A couple of us use .300 Weatherby Magnums and 7mm Weatherby Magnums, too.

My top picks for elk cartridges are:
.300 Weatherby with 168 gr TTSX or 175 gr LRX
7mm Weatherby or Remington magnums with 160 tbbc or 150 TTSX .
.35 Whelen loaded with 225 gr Partitions or Trophy Bonded Bear Claws or any 250 gr bullet.

Of course the other cartridges close to those are perfect as well. I list those because I’ve killed or seen killed several dump truck loads of elk with them. My friend who owns the ranch we hunt on in Colorado has killed way more elk than I can imagine the last 50 years or so with his .300 Win Mag and of late, his .300 WSM loads with 180 gr Partitions and Accubonds. I may hunt with my .275 Rigby some this year.

Best of luck in your hunts!


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From one of JB's previous posts, it appears that he and I started hunting about the same time. I killed my first deer in 1965 and my first elk in '66. He's obviously done way more hunting than me, but I have killed my share of elk, and have gone on a dozen international hunts.

Like others have posted, I believe that bullet placement is by far more important than the size of the cartridge or the diameter of the bullet. I have friends that have killed dozens of elk with their .22-250 or .220 Swift. and another friend back in Colorado whose wife got her elk every year with her .243 Win.

I've enjoyed shooting at our local range almost every Wednesday for almost 40 years. I started this routine mainly to shoot Trap or Skeet, but in recent years I've added shooting 1 to 3 rifles, prone, at the steel gongs that we have out to 430 yards. Even with all of this practice, of the hundreds of big game animals that I've shot, there are only a handful (and no elk) that I've shot at over 300 yards.

So in response to the original question of this Thread, I'll list the cartridges and bullets that I've shot elk with, working down from the cartridge that I shot the most elk with:

.30 Gibbs, 180 grain Nosler Partitions, 21 elk
.30-06, 150 grain Hornady Spire Points and 180 grain Sierra Spitzers, 8 elk
.300 Weatherby, 168 grain Barnes TSX and TTSX, 2 elk
.30-40 Krag, 200 grain RN soft point?, 1 (my first elk)
.257 AI, 117 grain Sierra GameKing, 1
7 mm Rem Mag, 160 grain Nosler Accubond, 1
Recurve bow, Bear razor insert broadhead, 1

I've lived, worked, and hunted in grizzly country since 1975 and so far I've only had one grizzly encounter while hunting, and that was because we had the quarters of 2 elk and a moose hanging in the stock rack in the back of my truck. I respect bears, but I don't choose my deer, elk, or sheep hunting cartridge with bears in mind.


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This has been a great thread. Thanks for all of the replies!

I am planning a once in a lifetime hunt for Elk in 2022. Fingers crossed and God willing that it will pan out!

The reason for my inquiry is this. I hunt mostly beanfields and heavy cover swamps / bottomland hardwood. The very first centerfire that I owned and my dad bought for me is a 700 BDL in .30-06. It cost $135.00 back in the early seventies and it came with a leather sling that I still have with the receipt.

My other rifles that might deserve consideration for Elk are .257 WM, 7-08 (20" barrel), 6mm rem and .350 rem mag. Also have a Sako mannlicher carbine in .308

After reading this and other sources, it looks like it may be time to blow the dust off of the '06. I think I will restock the original wood stock, maybe buy new trigger and put a scope on it.


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Originally Posted by Mule Deer
Quote
...if you get some of the private land tags available here in Colorado, a .257 Roberts is more than sufficient for shooting a cow off the ranchers alfalfa field, I just don't suggest if for more challenging conditions. Most guys who hunt wild public lands will tell you a .270 Winchester with a 150gr Nosler Partition is about the minimum for such conditions, with the edge going to something in the 300 to 375 WM range.


The cow Eileen killed with a .257 was taken on a damage hunt on a local ranch, because the local herd was coming off of public land to raid alfalfa fields at night. But they only came out at night--and though we were the only people hunting during the period, there had already been 3 hunters ahead of us. That's the way the Montana department often arranges damage hunts: One hunter gets to hunt the place until killing an elk, then the next person on the list gets called.

Consequently by the time Eileen got called it resembled hunting public land more than private. It took us 4 days to get her a shot during legal light, because they were on public land most of the day--where her hunt wasn't legal. Only near dark did they start filtering down toward the fields.

On the 4th evening it finally came together. We found the narrow draw through thick timber they were using, and managed to get within about 100 yards of a cow that stood quartering away uphill on the far side of the draw, There wasn't time to wait for the "ideal" broadside shot, so Eileen aimed for the far shoulder. I expected the elk to go 30-50 yards before keeling over, but instead it dropped right there, flopped its head a couple times, and lay still. It turned out this was because the 100 TTSX cracked the bottom of the spine on its way to the shoulder--where we found it under the hide, close to 3 feet of penetration. In fact, it was a LOT like most of the public-land elk hunting we do.

Five years later she killed a huge old cow--as big as many mature bulls--in a cattle pasture on another damage hunt. But that time she used her "big rifle," a custom lightweight .308 with the 130-grain TTSX handloaded to around 2900 fps. This time the cow quartered toward us at around 250 yards, and Eileen put the bullet just above of the big shoulder knuckle. That cow did manage to go about 20-25 yards before falling, but it was obviously dead on its feet. The bullet broke the thick leg bone and, again, angled through both lungs before ending up under the hide in the middle of the far ribs.


John,

Thanks for sharing that story. The image of Eileen piling up that cow with a CNS shot put a smile to on my face.


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I agree with those that said it depends on the terrain where you're hunting as well as the expected pressure. I've been hunting elk since 1980 and have missed very few seasons since. My hunting has been conducted in Colorado on private land, usually right at timberline. Therefore, shots could be anywhere from 40 feet to 400 yards or more. Although I've never shot at an elk that was further than 400 yards, there have been many times where I've watched elk that were further than that and I suppose a really good, long range shooter might be able to down one at distances much further than that. The pressure is also a factor, since as others have said, on public land it is difficult to find elk that are undisturbed and you might need to take a less than ideal shot. Therefore, you want something that can punch through a big bone to get to the vitals.

In any case, my first elk was shot with a 7x57 and many more fell to the 30-06, 270 Win, 338 WM, 300 Wby, and the 7mm RM. I've been with many others that have used a wide variety of cartridges from the 243 Win on up to .308 and the various 300 Magnums. I've even carried my 416 RM on an elk hunt but never killed anything with it. That particular hunt I passed on a long range shot on one of the largest bulls I've ever seen, but would have taken the shot had I had my .300 Wby.

In my estimation, for my hunting, I think the ideal cartridge is the .338 WM, followed by the 300 magnums, and if recoil is a concern, the 30-06 or 308 Win. Smaller cartridges will do, for sure, but I've seen elk hit with them that went quite a ways but if hit with the -06, probably wouldn't have gone as far. Of course, the one caveat to all of this is that many of these elk were killed before most of us started using premium bullets. However, my top three still hold for me. The use of premium bullets just makes them that much more effective.

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test

'For Me' I hunt mixed terrain & topography for WT. I generally hunt the rifle I'm in the MOOD to hunt.
I've taken magnums to Creek bottom thickets and Pine Plantations (thick pine growth on paper lands).
As I said earlier I've killed WT at 12' (feet) with a 7 RM, so the terrain makes no diff to me.

I agree that the 270 and lesser cartridges have KILLED elk and larger animals.
I prefer the 7 Mag and the like for the FLATTER trajectory - it makes hitting your POA quicker & easier.
Out to 400 yds there's no need to:
Range
Read Chart
Twist turrets
THEN aim.

See my sig line.


Jerry


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I am implied to come to two possible conclusions on elk hunting

1)I need to hire atleast two gunbearers so that I may have immediate access to atleast three rifles dependant on the arrising situation where I see a legal Elk.

2) with relatively minor behaviroal changes, hunt them like I do whitetails and use a a" typical rifle I would encounter while deer hunting


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Gitem12 - #2 will work in almost every case. People usually overthink all of this, but that is sort of the usual here on the campfire. However, the OP did ask for the top 3 cartridges and we are all just giving our opinions.

The best elk guides usually tell their clients from back east to bring whatever deer rifle they use back home. In 9 out of 10 cases, that rifle will suffice. Will it be the "best?" Who's to say? As long as the elk is dead, you'll think the cartridge was just fine unless you end up tracking a wounded elk for miles. However, if you don't recover that wounded elk, you'll question the effectiveness of any cartridge short of a bazooka!!!

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Around 30 years ago I hunted black bears in the northern end of the Bob Marshall Wilderness. Ran into an outfitter I knew a little, because his parents lived in the same small town I did. This guy carried a .375 H&H as his back-up rifle while guiding, and I asked him if it was because of grizzlies.

He said, "Nope, it's to finish off elk clients gut-shoot with their brand-new .338s!"


Which of course doesn't mean that veteran elk hunters who like the .338 can't handle one. But his observation was that too many clients who'd never hunted elk before left their .270, .308 or .30-06 "deer rifle" at home and bought a special "elk rifle"--and shot it just enough before the hunt to start a good flinch.

The other interesting thing that happened on that hunt was I saw more grizzlies than black bears--three decades before the grizzly population rose to its present level.


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I have only killed elk with three diffeernt cartridges and since they worked fine, I will list them.

1. .308 Win -150 and 165 gr cup and core, If I were to use it now it would be with 150 gr NPT or TTSX's.
2. .30-06 180 Nosler Partitions. I suppose I should try some 200 gr Noslers but have no real reason too.
3. .338 Win Mag 225 gr TBBC HE (yes, I still have some)

I have a 7x61 and some .300 magnums plus a .35 Whelen. I sometimes carry those when hunting spike only 3% hunts. I don't pull a branch bull tag very often though so when I do, I stick with the first three..

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Originally Posted by Dancing Bear

3. .338 Win Mag 225 gr TBBC HE (yes, I still have some)


That was a fine factory load. Finished off one elk with it while guiding, way back when the load was still new--which was quite a while ago!


“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.”
John Steinbeck
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