Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters 06 case-just about perfect.

So llama, let’s see some of the BIG, big game you’ve put on the turf with the 300WSM… something for which the 30-06 would not have been the equal.

Not the fault of the round, nor even the action. Swapping bolts willy nilly is pretty near always a bad plan.

The .303 is of course rather older than the .30/06, but it has a pretty good track record, especially in the countries where it was a service round. It has a sterling record in battle over a longer period than the .30/06 too, and even your US forces used substantial quantities of .303 in battle in WWI.

It can account for much the same game as the .30/06 too, though you do give away some velocity of course. It also has a rim, which is an advantage in some applications, such as break actions. FWIW it was also the basis of a whole range of wildcats here in Oz and in other countries. Some of these even became factory loads.

The Lee-Enfield action is also not without its advantages, especially when it comes to getting rounds downrange quickly. They are still seen in service rifle comps here. I have a couple of these myself, and 40-odd years experience with them in hunting and competition.

It has to be admitted though that with very few factory rifles being made now the old .303 and its derivatives is probably more one for enthusiasts and the nostalgic, something nobody but a fool or a troll would say of the .30/06.

Mr. Dan

You said, "Not the fault of the round, nor even the action. Swapping bolts willy nilly is pretty near always a bad plan".

Of course not. My main point is that I had one and intended to hunt it but.......

My 2nd point is the 303 B is what it is and it's NOT a 308 nor an 06. It doesn't have the fuselage to attain similar
velocities.

IMO one can't make it what it's not.


Jerry

Obviously the point is not to address bigger game, but the same game at longer range with a lighter, handier rifle.

Do you lack the craft and marksmanship skill to hunt at normal, ethical ranges?

There is a whole family of '06 based cartridges that have been doin' that since at least 1925.

We can understand special accommodations for the handicapped.




GR

Poor Bob. He likes to think we think he really knows his s hit. Well, maybe he does, he's full of s hit.

What 303's did the US use in WW1?

Most of it was for .303 Vickers machine guns, and some for Hotchkiss Portative light machine guns. The AEF was singularly under equipped, but most particularly in machine guns.

As well, there were US units placed under British and Australian command and equipped with SMLE rifles and Lewis guns, as well as Vickers guns, all in .303. An example is the detachment of 10 companies (about 2500 soldiers) of US Army infantry brought to combat readiness by our Anzac troops and placed under the command of Australia's General John Monash. Unfortunately when General Pershing learned that they were to accompany their digger mates in the battle of Hamel he withdrew six companies, but the remaining four companies joined the battle alongside the Anzacs and acquitted themselves well.



The US purchased about 28 million rounds of .303 during WWI.

As well as machine guns in .303 the US also managed to get hold of about 7,000 French Hotchkiss machine guns and a large number of CSRG light machineguns in 8 mm Lebel. The total number of rounds of 8 mm Lebel ammunition purchased for WWI was about 365 million, with another nearly 268 million rounds produced in the US.

There's nothing "obvious" about it.

You've made all kinds of claims about the superiority of the 300 WSM over the 30-06 with no reference to game size or range.

It's time for show and tell from you.

Someone so profoundly opinionated must have a lot of experience with both rounds...

Dan,
Enjoy your posts. It's refreshing and all too rare on these forums to hear from someone who knows what they are talking about. You have obviously researched this subject extensively.
Cheers,
Russ

I'd love to hear liamabob explain at what range a properly loaded 30/06 fails as a game getter but the 300 WSM still works.

I'd use a properly load 06 at long range in a heart beat

Dan,
Enjoy your posts. It's refreshing and all too rare on these forums to hear from someone who knows what they are talking about. You have obviously researched this subject extensively.
Cheers,
Russ

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Yes, he's well informed ! ! Could it be he LIVED thru that ? NAW - he ain't THAT old?

Jerry

We interrupt our regular program, already in progress...

The US development of the 30-06 was the culmination of lessons learned from Europe. Etonnante! Them Euros sure was smart! Specifically, the British and their 303 cartridge, and maybe a teensy bit from the Germans.

Remember the 30-40 and the Krag rifle? Holy Hannah! The 20th century was just about to bust out all over! A repeater with Euro roots! The 30-40 cartridge and the Krag rifle were almost a good idea but...


Yer 30-40 (left) and the 303 British (the other left)

It was a valiant try copying the 303 British and using a 308 bullet. The cartridge was pretty good, but the Krag's magazine! Oh, the horror! That was a tactical error. What were they thinking?!? But along came Peter Paul Mauser and his rifles. Ah! Combining British and German brilliance with the lessons learned from the Krag rifle, (and a false start with the 30-03), eh voila! The 30-06!

I know what you're thinking. Why not stick with what already proved to be a success? The 303 British? America should have bought a few boatloads of No 1s! Well, they wasn't American. It's also important to mention that the Krag Jorgenson was sort of the 19th century version of the Edsel. We all have a cross to bear, but things got better.

Calling all cars! Calling all cars! Be on the lookout for the Springfield M1903! It's considered armed and dangerous!



That Springfield was pretty slick, right? But nothing stands still, which brings us to the present day. The 303 still rules.

You can have the best of both worlds with a 30-303. You can rechamber a Lee Enfield or buy or rechamber a single shot like this. It's powerful. Sexy. Has a history. Yadda yadda.

Seems everything I buy these days
Has got a foreign name
From the kind of car I drive
To my video game
I got a Nikon camera
A Sony color TV
But the one that I love is from the USA.
And standing next to me.

My baby is American made
Born and bred in the USA.
From her silky long tube
To her sexy long stock
My baby is American Made!

Voici le 30-303 par Thompson Center. Une compilation de the technologie de la 20eme siecle. Puissant et joli!

Interesting

I'm enjoying my popcorn on the sidelines...but I would like to say I enjoy dan_oz's posts for his rational thought and his historical perspective. I learn something each time from his posts.
Of late I've been called a "flat earther" and "antediluvian" on this board. And now I'm posting here certain to be called a "nuthugger". I grew up hunting with dad and his friends (the "uncles") who all shot 30-06's. Dad and I shot 308's. When I got old enough to buy my own gear, I was certain I wanted a 7mm STW which was the wizbang cartridge of the moment. Never mind that we never knew if the hunts would be a drive/push with shots at running game, or cross ridge sniping. Funny thing is those 30-06's and 308's put a lot of game on the ground. ...so add "empiricist" to my labels .

I never did get that STW, though I had opportunities. I did ultimately build a 260 for dad (wrong choice for unexpected reasons...ascendancy of the Creedmoor). I also have a WSM...for which I'll receive another label..."little girl". My experience has taught me that to reliably hit game, I need to practice. The 300 WSM makes it difficult from two directions; 1) the cost of ammo is high and the availability is low. 2) I do not look forward to practicing with my unbraked, 5.5lb WSM (kimber montana). Didn't someone say that the ultimate goal was a lighter rifle?

It's funny to see stones cast at the 30-06 for poor bullet shape. Yes, it did start out with a round nose, but that was more the rule of the day than the exception. The Lee also had a round nose as did the Carcano. The arsenals eventually got a clue and redesigned the projectile and did too good a job even exceeding machine gun practice range limitations. The US Military not long ago took a look at the 6.8 SPC and the 6.5 Grendel which check boxes discussed on this thread, and they passed on these supposed "better" cartridges.

Today I mostly hunt with a 30-06. I put it together as a parts gun to hunt feral goats with (lots of shooting, some long shots, and rough rifle breaking country). It's not pretty, but it's kinda grown on me. It's old reliable (though on this last hunt it became a 2min gun and it might need a rebed or a scope check). Feeds rounds like oiled bananas...and I've probably shot more game with this rifle than any other I own. Some were at ranges long enough to have people shaking their heads when they ask Creedmoor or PRC?...and I tell them 30-06 (again..."empiricist").

There are folks pushing their 30-06's even harder and a bit further than mine (where's Montana Marine on this thread?). I also just ran across this thread; https://www.rokslide.com/forums/threads/30-06-effective-range.219423/

Maybe "perfect" is a bit overstated...but the 30-06 does so many things very well. So call me a "pragmatist".

Crickets...

It's not my fault you don't grasp the difference between a superior rifle for the same game, and a rifle for different game.

That's a personal problem you've got, and I've seen no evidence it's going to get any better...

In other words, “crickets.”

Nice attempt at a side step... and yet still no pictures.

Exactly what game is the 300WSM superior for that the 30/06 is not? And give us the specs on the superior rifle.

The .303 and .30-40 do share the same parentage. The .303 was directly derived from the cartridges developed by Rubin in Switzerland. In the case of the .30-40 the US Ordnance Department got hold of a box of Rubin cartridges via the US military attache in Paris, and sent them to Frankford Arsenal in April 1890 with a request to make up a batch of experimental cartridges based on these. After a few fits and starts the 1891 Small Arms Board cartridge was the outcome. More development followed, and rimless designs were also trialled (as was the Belgian 7.65 mm Mauser) before the final version of the .30 Ball was put into production in October 1893.