Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Elk Hunting 45/70 for elk?

I have a neighbor that wants to elk hunt with a
Winchester level in 45/70.
I need advice on what bullet to use.
I know there may be a better choice of caliber but
he is set on the lever rifle.
Also what range would be max for a clean kill?
He is very accurate out to 200 yds.
Thanks
Coach

350 grain hornady

It’ll kill elk very dead.
I shot one with a Shiloh sharps 1874 in 45/70, a good sized 6x6. One shot dropped in his tracks. It was a 405 grain jacketed, but I don’t recall the brand. The shot was about 80 yards. If he can hit the vitals, I’d say, stay inside 200 yards.

I used a Browning 86 reproduction and killed two bulls with it.Don't know if they are still available,but I think they were 405 gr Remington ,with 3031 powder.

I don't know about distance, I killed both of those bulls within 25 yards. I gave it up because it was too heavy to lug around. Keep them slugs heavy

Elk is why Winchester made the Model 1886 in the first place.
If you can find them, the 350 grain flat nose is a tough bullet that was designed for the 450 Marlin Express. The 350 RN is too long to cycle in levers, that I owned.
The 400 or 405 JFP does a nice job and can be loaded pretty heavy for the 1886 pressure levels. I find Re7 to be a great powder for such loads.

The 1886 Winchester was the first repeating “Buffalo” rifle. It was late to the game of the prime time buffalo slaughter but it did it's part at the end. The 45-70 is more than a match for any thing on this Continent. 300 Sierra, 400 Speer, RCBS 405 grain FN, and a 330 grain Lyman FN/HP are the bullets I use in my 86. The heaver the bullet the more it well thump you.

Pick a bullet then go shooting to see how it drops at any range you're likely to shoot at. It'll drop fast after about 100 yds so range estimation is critical.

i have killed 4 elk with the 45/70.
shooting a 350 hornady ftx. one shot drop.

he wants to use a 45 -70 let him it may work , but my thought is i might have a chance at a nice bull at 200-400 yards so i want a better long range cartridge like a 300 Win. mag or a 30-06 and a bi-pod i hunt to fill my tag not to be proud of what my rifle looks like.

Buffalo Bore 405 lays them right flat on their azz right now.

Flat nosed cast 400+ grains at full speed no problems out to 200 which is the range you say he is very accurate to. There are few 45-70 factory loads that would not work ok and the new ftx bullet load from Hornady is probably a good choice.

Just about any cartridge one picks has some limitations those good for 3-400 yards might be lacking at 600 yards or blow meat to hell at 50 yards.
The 45-70 is more than"may work". More elk are killed at less than 100 yards than those over.Muzzle loader hunters do well with most kills less than 100yards. Archers,although there success is usually half or more of other hunters get it done too.
If he wants to hunt open country ,then he might want to chose some thing else. For the closer stuff, there is little that the 45-70 gives up.

Besides the 45-70, I have hunted and killed elk with a 44 mag carbine and a 30-30 model 94. Both of them made one shot kills and I never felt under gunned

Handloaded or factory? His choice might need to be based on current availability. Lots of premium loads are normally available from Swift, Buffalo Bore and several others. The Swift A Frame 350 grain bullet is intriguing, but I agree that lots of choices would kill an elk. Sounds like fun.

Personally I'd load the 405gr Weldcore to 2000ft/s or whatever the gun will take. Out to 200y is reasonable with typical setups.

truth be told.... I wish I was bold enough to hunt with my .44 mag lever. it weighs about 4.5# and would have been AMPLE for the two elk I have killed (35 yards, 19 yards).

if your friend is committed to the 45-70, then I say good on him. the cartridge is plenty capable in 90% of the hunting that I do.

factory loads vary from pretty mild cowboy action loads to heavy whompum Buffalo Bore loads. I have no personal experience elk hunting with the 45-70, but I know enough about it's ballistics to know the round is more than capable.

I can’t imagine an elk would stop even the mild Remington 405 grain factory stuff. It is pretty much the duplicate of the old original black powder loading that killed countless buffalo.

I have a friend that uses a Marlin 22" with 350 Hornady round nose. Uses it as his saddle gun. Kills mule deer/elk, no problem. I also played with several Marlins and Browning 1886s. I I used the 350RN plus heavy cast bullets in the Marlin. I only used the then available Winchester 300 NP factory load in the Brownings. Back in the late 90s. I shot both to 300yds but never hunted with either. I have also personally found ( in my limited experience for sure) that 90% of the elk are found in 90% of the roughest country and 90% of the thickest part of the roughest country, ha. My "average" on 4 cow elk is 180 yds or so. Furthest one was 250yds ( still doable with a 45-70) one at 100, one at 200, one at 135, all "eyeballed distances too", no laser RF. ha. One sometimes has to pick the terrain that fits their equipment...or stalk a long ways like a bowhunter. A fast handling 45-70 is a "force to be reckoned with" for most shots. I love rifles so have played with many. I used a 30-06, 375H&H, 338WM and a 300WM on all my elk.

I have shot more elk with a 45-70 than any other caliber. All with a marlin and 350 gr Hornady

I have shot more elk with a 45-70 than any other caliber. All with a marlin and 350 gr Hornady

I used a Browning B-78 .45/70 the latter part of the last century. Took 3 elk with as many shots using a 525 grain swaged lead paper patched bullet with enough IMR-3031 for 1650 fps. Will never forget one morning, about 1993 IIRC, when it was lightly snowing and I got a 50 yard broadside shot at a 4x. At the shot, there was a spray of water all around him, he stumbled, and took 5 or 6 more steps and went down for good. As saddlesore said, I quit using it because it got too heavy. If I can ever make another elk hunt, I'll probably carry something like my .303 Savage carbine, Marlin 336, or Winchester '94 .30-30 carbine because of their handiness, loaded with a 190 grain cast bullet.

One of my goals is to kill an elk with my 45-70 High Wall and a cast bullet with black powder. My buddy killed one with his original Ballard 44-100 Everlasting shooting a cast bullet and Swiss BP. Thrill of a lifetime.

As said, 350gr Hornady, he can go from mild to all he cares to sit/stand behind with RL-7 powder, were it me, i'd shoot a 500gr flat nosed greaser with 70gr 2F Old Eyensford black powder, he can buy a Smith ladder barrel sight from Buffalo Arms, correlating the sight and using a good range finder, 300 yards is cake.

Get on that Utahunter, the satisfaction from it is indescribable.

try......

This was my first 45-70 elk kill with my 1886. Sometime in the 80's.It was the last day of elk season. Three other hunters had left camp for home already and just me and my brother were left. This raghorn came past me early in the morning and I missed him in a thick grove of aspens.I sat there awhile and then realized it was the only elk I saw all season.

I took off trailing him, just by the scruff marks in the forest duff. In about a 1/2 mile he had entered a thick blow down. I crept in and about 15 feet, sat down against a pine tree, and gave a soft cow call with one of those old plastic Cow Talk calls. Not 20 yards from me, he jumped to his feet. I was as surprised as he was. He stood there looking, but couldn't smell me and I was against that tree so he could not make me out.I could see his brisket and his head. It was a 4 point area and I had to study for a bit to grow enough points on him.

I could see his brisket thru two big horizontal logs about 18" apart . I slowly raised that 86 and threaded a 405 gr bullet thru two logs and hit him front on. He reared up and went over backwards and there was lot of crashing trees ,breaking and then silence.I heard his death groan and knew he was dead. Amazingly, he went about 20 yards in blow down so thick,I had to crawl over logs under some.

The photo shows where he fell, wedge around some logs with his legs going under one. I had a small axe and saw with me and I had to cut some 2-3"diameter trees on the far side to get his leg straightened out and then with a heck of a lot of grunting, pulling, and ropes, I was able to get him under the log far enough to gut out.

I went back to camp and got my brother and we rode the mules as close as we could get,about a hundred yards, We were able to skin and quarter enough a little at at time to get him out form the logs and bagged.Then we had to carry it back to the mules.We got back to camp about dark,exhausted,but my tag filled.



I had hard copy of a photo of my brother carrying a hind quarter along the top of a log to get the meat out.I sent it to him awhile back as he is in hospice with not much time left. He is 82 now and was able to call me when he got the photo. We talked about that hunt and many others including the 2nd elk I killed a few years later with the 45-70 that he was with me also.

I've been thinking on using my 45-70 bolt action, a Siamese Mauser conversion. I have some hot 350 grain factory loads that I can hit clay pigeons with regularly out to 300 yards.

Those square bullets sure lose steam fast. I'm wondering if penetration will be adequate at the longer ranges....dunno. Still thinking on whether to take the 45-70 or a different rifle that shoots that has tall cartridges and pointy bullets.

Whatever slug he is accurate with should more than suffice.

Hell of a story saddlesore, thanks for telling us about it.

When you mention the above, this one was easily the most memorable hunt of my lifetime. Ballard 45-70, Brooks 540 gr cast bullet and Swiss BP. Not an elk, but I'm sure the results would be similar...

I only shot a 500 gr cast out of my 45-70 once. I learned all I needed to know about that shoulder thumper.OUCH!

I didn't feel a thing when I shot that buck, but at the bench I wear a pad

Good stuff there JGray, very nice deer, big Paul Jones 540gr Creedmoore bullet from a Brooks mould, i'll bet you didn't get that bullet back from that mule deer ; ]

I asked Mr. Brooks for the 540 Creedmoor design with the nose modified to the original Sharp's paper patch bullet. He called it the 'original' Postell which is a little more round nosed and less pointy than the current ones. I cast 'em at 30:1.

No bullet recovered, exit was slightly larger than entry and lungs were liquified goo. I was amazed how much internal damage was done for what I presumed was minimal expansion.

Walked up to a blood puddle and legs in the air where he tipped over

LOL, damn right, i've told countless numbers of the effects of big chunks of lead at 12-1400 fps on game animals, they dont believe me either, i shot completely through a buffalo [bison] at 166 yards twice, the last shot was slam through both shoulders, it was with my little Shiloh Sharps 45-70, the 530gr paper patch load left the rifle at 1244 fps, the buffalo spun around and stopped on the first shot, after the second shot landed, it tried to take a step, fell straight down on it's nose.

Hit a good heavy horned 8pt buck with the same rifle and load quartering in hard to the rattling antlers at 30 yards, his whole front end done the Chubby Checker twist trying to get his steering back under control, he made a half circle and collapsed, the bullet split the hide all along his offside hip on exit, Yessir, i like big lead and blackpowder.

Awesome topic.

But I have a question, does anyone manufacture a lever or single shot theses days? Or is the BLR/450 the only option.

Henry makes both lever actions and single shots now.

Yes, there's lever guns you can aquire out there in 45-70 like used Marlins, Chiappa makes them, so does Winchester as well in their 1886. Henry makes them and you can find good single shots from Browning, C. Sharps, Shiloh Sharp's, and used Ruger No1.

The Browning BLR in 450 is a nice rifle. I've got one and it's a fine rifle. Wish I came to know the BLR much earlier

I've got a marlin 1895 I bought 6 years ago and I believe they are still making them. It's a good rifle

There are some very nice used ones out there. Ruger has stated a couple of times that the Marlin levers will be available sometime this year.

Pedersoli , Henry, Sharps, Uberti and others still produce single shot 45-70s.

This.

Most of our elk have been taken at 300 yards plus. I own a 45-70, and hunt elk with magnums, and a very lightweight 280 Ackley Improved which is a dream to carry. The 70 seems magical to me, big old fat bullets and a very long history. My goal when elk hunting is to kill an elk, thats why I don't use it where I hunt elk