Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Swapping bolts in a 30/06 Rem 700

A lot of good comments by many - here's my 2 cents, take it for what you paid for it:

The different bolt will likely not change a thing.

This is a mountain rifle, correct? I've only owned one 700 mountain rifle and a life-time of standard weight 700's, I ended up changing the barrel. It went from a 2+ MOA shooter to a ~ 3/4 MOA shooter. I had free floated the barrel, glass bedded the action etc. in a premium stock before I changed the barrel, so those changes may have helped the new barrel shine; it didn't help the original. The new barrel came of E-bay as a 'new' take off. It screwed right onto the action and the head space was correct. The new barrel was standard weight stainless steel and that rifle is now my favorite 270. I gave the mountain barrel away, letting the new owner know what I had experienced.

Maybe - maybe not

Decided to run another test on the bolt locking system currently on the rifle today. I wiped the bolt locking lugs and used a sharpie to color the lugs front and rear.

Front side top and bottom lugs(toward the chamber) showed no engagement which is probably the way it should be.

Rear side (toward the shooter) showed definite engagement on bottom lug (almost all sharpie ink scraped off). Top lug shows less scraping and more so at the start of the engagement.

That tells me that the engagement pressure is less on the top lug that still has ink on it and more on the bottom lug that has most ink scraped away.

Is this a valid test to determine uniformity of lug engagement??

https://imgur.com/aPOs73Y

https://imgur.com/Sf0w1Hd

Bolt Lug Comparison on my rifle after sharpie applied

Not really unless the firing pin and shroud assembly are removed from the bolt when you do this "test". Also pressure needs to be pushed against the bolt face when it's being done. Without removing the firing pin when you rotate and cock the bolt closed the firing pin engages the trigger sear assembly which is under spring pressure which pushes/tilts the rear of the bolt up against the rear receiver bridge causing the low or bottom lug to contact the lug seat of the receiver harder than the top lug as the bolt is rotated causing the top lug to show less contact than the bottom lug even though the lugs and seats may be machined perfectly. That's one of the reasons why guys bush the bolt (Borden bumps) to take out the play/wiggle of the bolt to prevent the bolt tilting up into the top of the rear receiver bridge. If you look at most unaltered Remington 700's you will see just about all of them show the same pattern of wear you describe. In fact haven't seen an unaltered factory rifle that didn't display what your talking about.

^^^^^ This was gonna be my suggestion also, there are 2 moa scope mounts and scopes in this world

Very good post bushrat

The only problem with bushrat's post is that many 700s (and 721s/722s) shoot very well without the "bushing" and all the associated stuff.

A good example is the 721 .270 Winchester that Harold R. Vaughan used in his experiments for his great book RIFLE ACCURACY FACTS. Vaughan was an actual rocket scientist, and far-gone rifle loony, who performed many experiments with this rifle--which he'd owned and hunted with for a LONG time.

One thing he discovered is that the locking lugs had worn themselves into the recesses with full contact, due to plenty of use. Thus the rifle shot very well despite the bolt not being "bushed."

The other example of this is that Remington 700s that have their bolt lugs lapped WITHOUT removing the spring, firing pin etc. also end up shooting very well, without bolt bushing. I know this from having performed this "experiment" myself, along with other folks who've done it--including professional gunsmiths.

However, I will add that bushrat's observation is interesting, because the wear-pattern on the locking lugs of PSE's bolt are indeed pretty typical of a 700 that hasn't been shot a vast amount--and also an indication that just swapping the bolt probably won't make much (if any) difference.

I am somewhat surprised that the "work" done on his rifle (especially installing another barrel) didn't include at least some work on the bolt lugs, whether with bolt bushed or not.

Mule Deer, I agree all my stock remington 700's shoot quite well, some really well. All display the same wear pattern on the bolt lugs. I was alluding that the bolt lug wear pattern can be/is deceiving and fools people into thinking it is a problem when it very rarely is.

All one has to do is put the bolt in the rifle close it on an empty chamber leave it cocked, press down on the top of the bolt shroud at the rear of the bolt with a little force with your thumb and the bolt can be pushed down and will pop back up when thumb pressure is relieved, this allows one to understand how the uneven wear pattern on the bolt lugs happens. Dry fire the trigger and the bolt will now be loose and relaxed at the rear and can be wiggled up, down and around. When being actually fired with a live round, the sear breaks allowing the bolt to drop to center at the rear and the lugs to seat square as the case head pushes back against the bolt face.

Like you I think the OP's accuracy problem is unlikely to be caused by a bolt lug seating problem but rather other more common accuracy problems. One could bush the bolt or change the bolt and pretty much waste his time and money.

Agree on all points.

We still don't know what all has been done to his rifle, and apparently other than the barrel change he doesn't either.

^^^
Not true MD

I did list earlier in detail in Post 16300445 what had been done on the rifle. As a matter of fact most everything (with the exception of the action and the bolt) has been swapped out from original factory and tested at one time or another.

Read the post.

Also read Post 16298121 which dealt with swapping optics, base and rings from the original set up.

Do you deal regularly with a gun shop, PSE? Someone you trust?

Here's the thing. It is impossible to diagnose what, if anything, is wrong with your rifle. Bad groups come from broken optics, poor bedding, a bad barrel, poor lock up and one or two other things.

Because you have a rifle that performs poorly with the original bolt, you wish to try the donor to see if it will make any difference. That's fair, but I think you should take the rifle and spare bolt to your gunsmith. He has the tools and the training to inspect the original rifle. It is going to cost you a few dollars. How much depends on what you two discuss before he starts. He will give you a price upfront. This is not a standard job, so the quote he will give you is for a serviceability inspection. He will also try the spare bolt to see if it can be used in your rifle with no problems.

Honestly, you should work with a pro on this. If he discovers something, he will tell you what the problem is and how much to correct it.

I understand you wanting to talk with people, but no one here can offer anything definitive. Guesses won't fix things.

[quote=Steve Redgwell]Do you deal regularly with a gun shop, PSE? Someone you trust?

Here's the thing. It is impossible to diagnose what, if anything, is wrong with your rifle. Bad groups come from broken optics, poor bedding, a bad barrel, poor lock up and one or two other things.

Because you have a rifle that performs poorly with the original bolt, you wish to try the donor to see if it will make any difference. That's fair, but I think you should take the rifle and spare bolt to your gunsmith. He has the tools and the training to inspect the original rifle. It is going to cost you a few dollars. How much depends on what you two discuss before he starts. He will give you a price upfront. This is not a standard job, so the quote he will give you is for a serviceability inspection. He will also try the spare bolt to see if it can be used in your rifle with no problems.

Honestly, you should work with a pro on this. If he discovers something, he will tell you what the problem is and how much to correct it.

I understand you wanting to talk with people, but no one here can offer anything definitive. Guesses won't fix things.[/quote


I tend to agree and may do that. That will be my decision on whether I wish to spend more money on what is a problem child or leave it alone and enjoy it as is. Since my retirement I tend not to want to throw good money after bad.

The thing of it is that this thread has gone way off track. What started as as a simple inquiry - Can a 30/06 bolt be swapped
for a 270 bolt has gone from that to what all did you do over the years to your rifle. One question leads to another and then to another and pretty soon you're in the position of defending what was done to your rifle as well as defending your shooting ability.

The bolt was given to me free of charge by a good man in a different forum so I just wanted to know whether a swap is feasible, and could there be some improvement, that's all. No big deal.

What I eventually got from this thread (I think) is that a bolt swap is feasible with the caution that you check for proper headspace but it probably won't result in better performance.
Good enough.

Sometimes it seems that the less extra information you give on forums like these - the better off you are. I'll know better in the future.

It's always best to go to the pros. I understand why you asked though.

The gunsmith will be able to give you an answer and a price. Just talk to him. Explain the situation and see what he says. Good gunsmiths employ the KISS principle and most are skilled.

Not to sidetrack the discussion, but as you have discovered, threads on this site (and others) devolve quite quickly.

P.S. Your rifle probably shot better before Biden became president in the States.

My .30-06 will not shoot any of the 165 Interbonds or SSTs worth beans. I’m betting therein lies the problem. Some will moan and disagree.

Has tried factory 150 and 180 grain stuff.

With all factory and reloaded ammo do groups all stay around that 2" mark?

PSE, this is the 24 hour campfire forums. It is not necessarily a place where you can ask a specific question and get a straight answer. There are a few that will go outside of the answer in a sincere effort to help with your problem. Others will ask you for more info, only to contradict everything you state, when you supply them with the info they ask for and try to make you look incompetent or that you are not telling them the truth. Some will comment without reading the whole thread or they cannot comprehend what they read.
My advice would be to do what the first couple of posters said after your initial post and get the spare bolt checked for headspace in your rifle. If it headspaces ok, shoot the rifle to see if accuracy has improved. RJ

Yes - With that said I haven't tried a whole lot of factory.

I'm am interested in trying the factory ammo with 165 gr Mono Metal bullets next (when they finally get some ammo in stock at the LGS).

That's exactly what I intend to do. Thanks!

You mean before Trudeau became PM in Canada - Right??