Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire The Mormon Movie

� Read a contemporary historian's account of the Mountain Meadows massacre in Dunn's Massacres of the Mountains,

� Guilt is a matter of what the accused allegedly did or didn't do, not a matter of who he was � be he Michael Vick, O J Simpson, Robert Blake, David Koresh, or somebody else whose name hasn't even made the evening news.

� "Christian" zealots have been massacring "heretical" Christians for centuries � some early Roman Catholics officially slaughtered non-Catholic Christians by the tens of thousands � Lutherans drowned Anabaptists � etc.

� The one legitimate template for truly Christian belief and behavior is Jesus, not any of the many who have tattooed His name on their foreheads or embroidered His name on their shirts.

� None of the above makes anyone guilty of what others did generations or even centuries ago. I'm not guilty of anything that my former neighbors' forefathers did to other neighbors' forefathers a couple of centuries ago.

Sift the facts � don't blend 'em.

kenjs1 - I'm staying out of this post but to answer your question
the Spanish Inquisiton (sp) killed or tourtured thousands of people during their reign of terror during the middle ages. You'll find more about it on the web... CEJ

They are not your kin, neither the victims or perpetrators. You are not Mormon, yet you are spending an inordinate amount of time on the massacre and are full of horrific stories of Mormons abusing, killing and torturing others that you readily relate on the internet.

� I really can't understand how people's religion can condone such actions or be labelled God's sword. �

To the shock of those watching on August 3, 1999, a backhoe's claw tore open the grave exposing the skeletal remains of men, women, and children who had been brutally murdered in 1857....

In 1998 the LDS (Mormon) Church, owners of the land, had agreed to restore the gravesite. This excavation was part of that renovation. However, the Mormon Church was totally unprepared for the legal and political controversy that followed when the skeletons of so many men, women, and children were unearthed.

The first-reaction comment of one of the men who unearthed the skeletons was to dump them back into the hole and swear an oath of secrecy. But after giving it a second thought the men realized they were legally bound by Utah State law to inform the proper authorities of the find.

They eventually called Washington County Sheriff, Kirk Smith. Smith said it was a very humbling experience. "I saw buttons, some pottery, and bones of adults and children. But the children�that was what really hit me hard."

Utah state archeologist, Kevin Jones, was immediately called in. He explained to a group of state officials, including Governor Mike Leavitt, the state law which required any unidentified human remains found on private property be forensically examined. Jones issued a permit and the remains were taken to Church owned, Brigham Young University lab, allowing scientists to determine the age, sex, race, stature, health condition, and cause of death. "We were under pressure from the very beginning to get done what we needed to do very quickly," Jones said.

Shannon Novak, a University of Utah forensic anthropologist was allowed to study the remains. Novak thought the work would take perhaps six months to complete. She said: "This [kind of work] is giving the dead a chance to speak." The bones were beginning to tell their story when she received an unexpected phone call from BYU archaeologist, Shane Baker, on the evening of September 8. Baker was on the scene when the discovery was made the month earlier. He had been hired by the Mormon Church to examine the meadow to make sure the grave would not be disturbed, before earthmoving equipment was sent in.

Novak was not prepared for the conversation that ensued. Baker told her the antiquities permit had been rewritten. He informed her that she would have to surrender the bones by the end of the next day. She was able to secure only one extra day and told Baker he could have them back the morning of September 10.

Knowing that time was now her enemy, Novak, her research assistant, Derrina Kopp, a photographer, and other experts sorted through the fragments. By the time they finished, she concluded the bones represented at least 28 people.

It further became evident that white men's methods rather than Paiute Indians' had accomplished the murders. The examination also disclosed that some of the victims, including several women and at least one child, had been killed while facing their executioners head-on, by point-blank gunshots between their eyes, rather than being shot in the back while fleeing, as earlier accounts had claimed.

Novak found that at least two small children were beaten to death. One of the children was about four the other about seven. There was no evidence that any of the victims had been scalped, or that any of them had been shot with arrows, as had been claimed through the years.

Utah's governor, Mike Leavitt, who happens to be a descendant of an apparent participant in the massacre, had given the order to have the bones reburied immediately. Novak's examination was still not complete, including DNA testing. Nevertheless, she was forced to surrender the bones.

Marian Jacklin, a U.S. Forest Service archeologist, was one of many who fought the state's decision to halt the inquiry. "Those bones could tell the story and this was their only opportunity," she said. Jones commented that the bones should be studied to help future generations better understand the past. "None of them got to tell their story. This was our only opportunity for them to tell us what happened to them," Jones said.

Hundreds of victims' relatives around the country petitioned the state of Utah to retrieve the remains of their ancestors, some demanding DNA testing. Their request fell on deaf ears. The governor of Arkansas, Mike Huckabee, speaking for the descendants living in his state, requested federal stewardship of the site, which would remove it from Church control. Again, the request fell on deaf ears.

I really can't understand how people's religion can condone such actions or be labelled God's sword.
There are skeletons in closets everywhere.

The upcoming, church-blessed account will argue that the plan was hatched by Mormons in southern Utah, not Young. Coauthor Richard Turley argues that only one of the Indian chiefs at the meeting can be shown to be in the region of the fighting, and he was on a peaceful mission.

"Were there things said in Salt Lake City by President Young that lent themselves to create this atmosphere of tension in the south? Well, of course there were," says Mr. Turley. "But doggone, when you are in a war, things are said that you later on wish weren't said."

Well, some progress HAS been made �

Let the dead there (their remains and their remaining accoutrements) tell us what happened there.

While I was still talking with him, some men came into his house to see him, so he requested me to keep quiet until they left. I did as he directed.



As soon as the men went out, I continued my recital. I gave him the names of every man that had been present at the massacre. I told him who killed various ones. In fact I gave him all the information there was to give.



When I finished talking about the matter, he said:



"This is the most unfortunate affair that ever befell the Church. I am afraid of treachery among the brethren that were there. If any one tells this thing so that it will become public, it will work us great injury. I want you to understand now, that you are never to tell this again, not even to Heber C. Kimball. It must be kept a secret among ourselves. When you get home, I want you to sit down and write a long letter, and give me an account of the affair, charging it to the Indians. You sign the letter as Farmer to the Indians, and direct it to me as Indian Agent. I can then make use of such a letter to keep off all damaging and troublesome enquiries."



I told him that I would write the letter. (I kept my word; but, as an evidence of his treachery, that same letter that he ordered me to write, he has given to Attorney Howard, and he has introduced it in evidence against me on my trial.)