Here is an interesting video regarding the O.P's. post on Fundamentalism. A Bible scholar and professor, Bart Erhman, and Sam Harris. It's a long discussion but very informative as to how Erhman, the scholar, a fundamental Christian, changed his views. It is 1 hour, 48 minutes long, just so you know.
Some fascinating information.
L.W.
"Always go straight forward, and if you meet the devil, cut him in two and go between the pieces." (William Sturgis, clipper ship captain, 1830s.)
What if one is a 5-Point Calvinist but can't decide whether to subscribe to Infralapsarianism vs. Supralapsarianism??
Quien Sabe,
GWB
Good question. At least there is an inner conflict in that case. When a fundamentalist discovers inner conflict he is on the verge of no longer being a fundamentalist.
BTW,
If I was born in 1951, would it be that I was fore-ordained to be a Pre-Millennial?
I’ve been on a few forums over the years. It seems that there is a cycle of some fundamentalist showing up with a fanatical fervor to school everyone up and convert them. Heck. They have the inexplicable compulsion to convert Christians.
It’s a curiouser curiouser thing that Christian Fundamentalists are really not a lot different from the fundamentalist of other religions. They have it all figured out. No legitimate question be it difficult or simple goes without an answer. They “litrally” have it all figured out and an answer for everything.
When their beliefs are challenged they don’t answer directly but go to great lengths and blather on and on repeating some memorized apologetical argument to support their views. When that fails they resort to personal insult and or dehumanizing the person who is a threat to them by having ask simple questions.
They are not self critical or introspective which is a reflection of a deep seated belief that that they are somehow autonomously righteous.
They are big on law and commandments. Never mind that the whole of the Bible teaches that the law never did, never could and never will bring righteousness. It can’t. It wasn’t designed for that. But…..the fundamentalist drags everyone back to the law. If they were self critical and introspective they would realize that they are sinners.
Sinners he said! Ask a fundamentalist if he sins. That’s a fun experiment. Talk about making a guy squirm as his self righteousness is challenged. They will lie through their teeth and come up with all kinds of excuses or twisted definitions of what sin is and how they only sometimes sin.
They never realize that the expressed disbelief in their righteousness by those who claim no faith at all is a condemnation of exponential proportions.
I’m a Christian. Faith is important in my life. That being the case, were I faced with two choices, go to a fundamentalist church or go to a whore house I’d chose the whore house every time. It would be a much more honest transaction every single time and metaphorically appropriate.
Yup. Not finding anything to "fundamentally" disagree with.
And yes, I am a Christian...bought and paid for by the blood of Yeshua the Christ.
It is a shame what some folks do to Grace.
Tim
USMC 0351
We know the price of everything and the value of nothing.
I’ve been on a few forums over the years. It seems that there is a cycle of some fundamentalist showing up with a fanatical fervor to school everyone up and convert them. Heck. They have the inexplicable compulsion to convert Christians.
It’s a curiouser curiouser thing that Christian Fundamentalists are really not a lot different from the fundamentalist of other religions. They have it all figured out. No legitimate question be it difficult or simple goes without an answer. They “litrally” have it all figured out and an answer for everything.
When their beliefs are challenged they don’t answer directly but go to great lengths and blather on and on repeating some memorized apologetical argument to support their views. When that fails they resort to personal insult and or dehumanizing the person who is a threat to them by having ask simple questions.
They are not self critical or introspective which is a reflection of a deep seated belief that that they are somehow autonomously righteous.
They are big on law and commandments. Never mind that the whole of the Bible teaches that the law never did, never could and never will bring righteousness. It can’t. It wasn’t designed for that. But…..the fundamentalist drags everyone back to the law. If they were self critical and introspective they would realize that they are sinners.
Sinners he said! Ask a fundamentalist if he sins. That’s a fun experiment. Talk about making a guy squirm as his self righteousness is challenged. They will lie through their teeth and come up with all kinds of excuses or twisted definitions of what sin is and how they only sometimes sin.
They never realize that the expressed disbelief in their righteousness by those who claim no faith at all is a condemnation of exponential proportions.
I’m a Christian. Faith is important in my life. That being the case, were I faced with two choices, go to a fundamentalist church or go to a whore house I’d chose the whore house every time. It would be a much more honest transaction every single time and metaphorically appropriate.
Good that there are more choices. I do have a question. When Jesus told the lady at the well to go and sin no more what did that mean?
Do you think that she never sinned again? I don’t. That would not be consistent with any of the rest of scripture.
Of course she sinned again...unless she happened to drop dead at that instant!
In Luke 10:27 Jesus also agreed that the Law and the Prophets are summed up thusly;
"YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR STRENGTH, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND; AND YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.”
And none of us is capable of that, for sure!
Hence Grace!
Last edited by Tarbe; 08/30/21. Reason: Clear up attribution in Luke
USMC 0351
We know the price of everything and the value of nothing.
I was raised in the fundy tradition in which my mother was brought to salvation and my father was raised. My household, however, was not fundy. I don’t know how that worked intellectually or theoretically exactly but I know the separation was due to my mother’s conversion and her chronic disease which kept us all in a state of suspense for my entire time in my parents home.
I left fundamentalism for an older strain of Protestantism which is more confessional and liturgical. In my opinion it is also much more focused upon grace and upon maintaining a sense of continuity with the last 2,000+ years of Christianity vs the discontinuity (over)emphasized by fundamentalism.
As described, my read is that the fundamentalist posture is one of certainty rather than humble submission to a God who is beyond our ability to understand and to grace beyond our comprehension in quality & quantity BECAUSE WE NEED IT.
Ps 90 is my favorite Psalm and pops into my head when I get too proud or complacent; that is, often:
90 Lord, You have been our [a]dwelling place in all generations. 2 Before the mountains were brought forth, Or ever You [b]had formed the earth and the world, Even from everlasting to everlasting, You are God. 3 You turn man to destruction, And say, “Return, O children of men.” 4 For a thousand years in Your sight Are like yesterday when it is past, And like a watch in the night. 5 You carry them away like a flood; They are like a sleep. In the morning they are like grass which grows up: 6 In the morning it flourishes and grows up; In the evening it is cut down and withers. 7 For we have been consumed by Your anger, And by Your wrath we are terrified. 8 You have set our iniquities before You, Our secret sins in the light of Your countenance. 9 For all our days have passed away in Your wrath; We finish our years like a sigh. 10 The days of our lives are seventy years; And if by reason of strength they are eighty years, Yet their boast is only labor and sorrow; For it is soon cut off, and we fly away. 11 Who knows the power of Your anger? For as the fear of You, so is Your wrath. 12 So teach us to number our days, That we may gain a heart of wisdom. 13 Return, O Lord! How long? And have compassion on Your servants. 14 Oh, satisfy us early with Your mercy, That we may rejoice and be glad all our days! 15 Make us glad according to the days in which You have afflicted us, The years in which we have seen evil. 16 Let Your work appear to Your servants, And Your glory to their children. 17 And let the beauty of the Lord our God be upon us, And establish the work of our hands for us; Yes, establish the work of our hands.
I’ve been on a few forums over the years. It seems that there is a cycle of some fundamentalist showing up with a fanatical fervor to school everyone up and convert them. Heck. They have the inexplicable compulsion to convert Christians.
It’s a curiouser curiouser thing that Christian Fundamentalists are really not a lot different from the fundamentalist of other religions. They have it all figured out. No legitimate question be it difficult or simple goes without an answer. They “litrally” have it all figured out and an answer for everything.
When their beliefs are challenged they don’t answer directly but go to great lengths and blather on and on repeating some memorized apologetical argument to support their views. When that fails they resort to personal insult and or dehumanizing the person who is a threat to them by having ask simple questions.
They are not self critical or introspective which is a reflection of a deep seated belief that that they are somehow autonomously righteous.
They are big on law and commandments. Never mind that the whole of the Bible teaches that the law never did, never could and never will bring righteousness. It can’t. It wasn’t designed for that. But…..the fundamentalist drags everyone back to the law. If they were self critical and introspective they would realize that they are sinners.
Sinners he said! Ask a fundamentalist if he sins. That’s a fun experiment. Talk about making a guy squirm as his self righteousness is challenged. They will lie through their teeth and come up with all kinds of excuses or twisted definitions of what sin is and how they only sometimes sin.
They never realize that the expressed disbelief in their righteousness by those who claim no faith at all is a condemnation of exponential proportions.
I’m a Christian. Faith is important in my life. That being the case, were I faced with two choices, go to a fundamentalist church or go to a whore house I’d chose the whore house every time. It would be a much more honest transaction every single time and metaphorically appropriate.
Good that there are more choices. I do have a question. When Jesus told the lady at the well to go and sin no more what did that mean?
Do you think that she never sinned again? I don’t. That would not be consistent with any of the rest of scripture.
I have no idea if she did or didn't. I don't think anyone else knows that answer either. I simply asked a question as to what that meant. Which I have not read here yet.
I believe most of nominal Christianity went through that wide gate and down that broad road that Jesus described. There are some that ignored the 13th self named apostle and kept to the narrow path.
Patriotism (and religion) is the last refuge of a scoundrel.
Brother Jim, I believe Jesus was telling her to repent. I don't know the answer to very much, & I won't pretend I do. I do know that my righteousness comes from God, by way of grace through Jesus.
The Bible's message of salvation is very easy to comprehend. Believe in Jesus, don't rely on working your way in. There's nothing in there about having to be perfect or having to follow anyone's rules or laws. It's all by faith, nothing else.
Ephesians 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
Romans 10:9 because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
“In a time of deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act.” ― George Orwell
It's not over when you lose. It's over when you quit.
What if one is a 5-Point Calvinist but can't decide whether to subscribe to Infralapsarianism vs. Supralapsarianism??
Quien Sabe,
GWB
Good question. At least there is an inner conflict in that case. When a fundamentalist discovers inner conflict he is on the verge of no longer being a fundamentalist.
BTW,
If I was born in 1951, would it be that I was fore-ordained to be a Pre-Millennial?
Antinomies Abound!
ya!
GWB
Yes and maybe.
If a five point Calvinist it may be necessary to determine if one has leanings toward Antinomianistic legalism or legalistic Antinomianism. I’m not a three, four or five point Calvinist but I seem to equally fall off both sides of the horse.
I’ve been on a few forums over the years. It seems that there is a cycle of some fundamentalist showing up with a fanatical fervor to school everyone up and convert them. Heck. They have the inexplicable compulsion to convert Christians.
It’s a curiouser curiouser thing that Christian Fundamentalists are really not a lot different from the fundamentalist of other religions. They have it all figured out. No legitimate question be it difficult or simple goes without an answer. They “litrally” have it all figured out and an answer for everything.
When their beliefs are challenged they don’t answer directly but go to great lengths and blather on and on repeating some memorized apologetical argument to support their views. When that fails they resort to personal insult and or dehumanizing the person who is a threat to them by having ask simple questions.
They are not self critical or introspective which is a reflection of a deep seated belief that that they are somehow autonomously righteous.
They are big on law and commandments. Never mind that the whole of the Bible teaches that the law never did, never could and never will bring righteousness. It can’t. It wasn’t designed for that. But…..the fundamentalist drags everyone back to the law. If they were self critical and introspective they would realize that they are sinners.
Sinners he said! Ask a fundamentalist if he sins. That’s a fun experiment. Talk about making a guy squirm as his self righteousness is challenged. They will lie through their teeth and come up with all kinds of excuses or twisted definitions of what sin is and how they only sometimes sin.
They never realize that the expressed disbelief in their righteousness by those who claim no faith at all is a condemnation of exponential proportions.
I’m a Christian. Faith is important in my life. That being the case, were I faced with two choices, go to a fundamentalist church or go to a whore house I’d chose the whore house every time. It would be a much more honest transaction every single time and metaphorically appropriate.
Good that there are more choices. I do have a question. When Jesus told the lady at the well to go and sin no more what did that mean?
Do you think that she never sinned again? I don’t. That would not be consistent with any of the rest of scripture.
I have no idea if she did or didn't. I don't think anyone else knows that answer either. I simply asked a question as to what that meant. Which I have not read here yet.
I haven’t looked back at the passage but to the best of my memory I think he was pretty much telling her to stop being the village bicycle.
The Bible's message of salvation is very easy to comprehend. Believe in Jesus, don't rely on working your way in. There's nothing in there about having to be perfect or having to follow anyone's rules or laws. It's all by faith, nothing else. Ephesians 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast. Romans 10:9 because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
I agree Rock Chuck. Wholeheartedly. Salvation is God's free gift to us, but we must accept it. To heck with bein’ told what you’re ‘supposed’ to believe just because it’s part of some set of principles laid down as being incontrovertibly true by other men in authoritative positions (like Pope’s and Archbishop’s and other ecumenical patriarch‘s and such). Same goes for formal catechisms, creeds, and confessions. I’ll draw my own conclusions in these matters, rather than have em’ dictated to me by someone else (another man).
The Holy Spirit is a teacher, a helper, and an advocate. Some followers of Jesus truly believe that the same Spirit of God that raised Jesus from the dead actually resides within them, and teaches them the things that God wants them to know, and helps them live the way that God wants them to live.
I don’t think He wants a bunch of automatons and slaves; I think He wants us to have a relationship with Him...to see us change by knowing Him...and to feel what it’s like to be truly loved by Him.
After the final judgment God will gather us all up… Eastern Orthodox, Roman Catholics, Lutherans, Reformed/Presbyterian, maybe even a few Baptists will make it (that’s a joke!) and Pentecostals Weslyans et al
He’ll give us kudos on certain things we did well, and tell us where we missed the boat.
The Bible's message of salvation is very easy to comprehend. Believe in Jesus, don't rely on working your way in. There's nothing in there about having to be perfect or having to follow anyone's rules or laws. It's all by faith, nothing else.
Ephesians 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
Romans 10:9 because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
Very true. There is a tendency to add to it. That is where the Fundamentalist makes the gospel small g.
