Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Long Range Hunting New to long range shooting

A friend of mine has decided that he wants to be a long range shooter and wants me to order a Savage 110 Ultralight in either 6.5 PRC or 280AI for him. I suggest the Mauser M18 Savanna in 6.5 PRC as a less expensive alternative. His rifle budget is around $1,200.

I haven't shot either of these rifles and thought that I'd ask the experts what you think of these three choices or if you can offer a better solution within his budget.

Long range shooting. Choosing an ultralight? Hmm. That, in my book takes one hell of a rifleman.

He thinks that he is a better shooter than he really is, but many people are prone to self-delusion. Years ago I went to a leadership seminar given by former NU volleyball coach Terry Pettit where he said that in his experience many men deluded themselves by believing that they had a natural GOD-given talent for driving a car, shooting a gun, and coaching a team. Coach Pettit's experience and mine are pretty much parallel.

I am sure you are going to hear a lot of different idea's on what it takes to shoot well at long range, some people consider 500 yrds long range, others 800 yrds long range or 1000 yrds long range, how about 1 mile, 2 miles. let your goals help you decide what tool and Optic's to use.

Also I hope you have enough reloading stuff, to shoot what ever you choose more than just a little, Rio7

+1. Is the $1,200 budget for the rifle only, or rifle and scope?

With that budget, what about a tikka ctr?

Rifle only.

My friend told me that he wants to reach to between 700 and 1,000 yards. He is a reloader, but not what I would call a precision reloader.

My maximum comfort range is about 1/4 miles with a good solid rest in the field, but I've shot enough on our 600 yard range to be comfortable off the bench.

I agree with the posters above. Start with what expectations the shooter has. How far away does he want to shoot at what size targets - elk demand far less precision than coyote. Once that is figured out then it comes down to selecting the right tool for the job.

Everybody thinks they are Quigley until they get their ass handed to them in competition.

There’re more long range rifles than rifleman.

I might be wrong but it sounds like a Savage LR Hunter would fit the bill.

What is he wanting to shoot? Is this to be a target/play gun or is he wanting to hunt with it?

If just a target/play gun, I’d go with a 6.5 Creedmoor and enjoy less recoil and more barrel life. If hunting, then I’d concede the 6.5 PRC or .280 AI but could still be, and am happy with the 6.5 Creedmoor.

I’d also go with something heavier than either choice mentioned. My hunting rifle weighs 10.6 pounds all up with scope and magazine full of ammo. Its heavy by most folks standards but I’m more than willing to put up with the weight for the extra shootability and the confidence that brings.

I’ve not owned a Savage but have been around and shot a few and have never been impressed. I’ve just not observed the affordable accuracy I’ve seen so many brag about. I set up a Bergera HMR for a friend of mine and am duly impressed. My son had a Tikka CTR and that thing would shoot. Both were much more rifle for the $ than any Savage I have been around. For $1200 he could do much better than a Savage. The Howa Oryx chassis rifle would be another that would interest me.

John

Some folks here will poo poo the Browning X Bolt, but mine easily shoots 3/4 MOA with factory loads and my handloads. This is a 6.5 Creedmoor, right out of the box.

Do some Google searching and see if you can find any complaints vs how accurate they are.

While having shot steel to a 1000 plus I've no interest in shooting at animals at that range. It's both fun and frustrating . Calibers that have been used 300 Win Mag, 7 mm Rem Mag, 308 Win, 6.5 Creed and 260 Rem. 6.5 and 260 were by far the easiest to shoot for longer periods of time so made it easier to hit steel at that range.

Last time down to visit RIo7, I surprised myself shooting long range, to me. Of course I was shooting RIO7's rifle, under His instruction, but was still surprised at the results. Good equipment and listening to someone with knowledge pays off most times. miles

Miles, You forgot to mention, your a dam good shot, all i did was change you to a rifle and scope, that's set up for long range, and give you some wind calls, you were shooting some very good groups at 1000 yrds, you were more suprised than i was, that was fun, we need to do it again soon. Rio7

shooting at a 1,000 yards it is very fun but to be honest if your just playing why not just use a 6 BR no recoil , cheap to shoot , and its more accurate than most other cartridges at all distances including 1,000 yards. yes i own 6.5 Creedmoors and many other cartridges in bench rifles but that little 6 BR is a dang great little cartridge and when your shooting all day at the bench recoil does suck.

pete53, Almost all 6mm's are good to 1000 yards, some use more or less powder, but they almost all shoot well, out of a good barrel, optic's and shooter's, make a big difference, and almost all are low recoil, very few shooter's spend all day at the bench. YMMV Rio7

Thanks for the kind words Blue. I am still blown away with my shooting, and yes, I was very surprised. Had never tried that before, and it was awesome. miles

UPDATE: My friend bought the Savage 110 Ultralight in 280AI.

Somebody told him that the 6.5 PRC isn't as good for killing elk out to 1,000 yards. I don't think that he's a good enough shooter to be squeezing the trigger on an elk at long ranges, but he thinks that technology will make up for his level of actual shooting skills..

I would suggest more toward a varmint weight rifle in 6.5 Creed or 308Win.

An ultralight 6.5 PRC will be costly to feed, short on barrel life, and the light weight is no help for a LR starter rifle.


But to each their own. It's all part of the journey.

260Remguy,

Technology can be a big help, but nothing beats rounds down range, lots of them, also good people helping you will shorten the learning curve, anyone can dial up, learning wind is VOODOO. Rio7

I'm not interested in long range shooting or long range hunting, I was asking for a friend from KS. As elk go, I have deeded access to a ranch in CO WMA 140 where cover and water are concentrated, so finding the elk isn't hard and getting close to them is a matter of low crawling slowly until you get into your comfort zone.

My friend wanted a light mountain rifle chambered for a cartridge that he feels comfortable shooting elk out to 1,000 yards, so he bought the Savage in 280AI.

Makes sense. My first car was a Buick station wagon, and I drove Formula One shortly after buying it.
Grins

Sometimes a person just doesn't know what they don't know.

I don't know about that.....

👏

Truthfully no one who plans 800 yd and longer shots on game is using an off the shelf rifle. There are many custom rifle makers that deliver rifles capable of those feats and most are in the $3.5K - $5K range. And that would be minus the glass, which at a minimum for a serious long range hunter will be in the $2K range. What I’m saying is someone who is hell bent on pursuing game at those ranges has worked their way up over years in the field and bench as a rifleman to understand what it takes in skill and commitment. The money spent at those levels is based on a serious commitment that has taken many years of deliberation to develop. From your own account your friend sounds like a dreamer who has read to many magazine articles. My advice with his new off the shelf purchase is to get closer to the game and see how proficient they are at 300 yds with a 20 mph crosswind. My guess is this person will become very uncomfortable shooting at that range under those conditions let alone doping wind at three times that distance.

My 1000 yard light weight mountain elk rifle weighs just over 10lbs.

I am not sure if that is true anymore.

I see your point of view. Anyone can pull a trigger whether it’s an off the shelf rifle at 800 yds or money spent for a customized build. I agree any article fed dreamer at those ranges can pull the trigger quite easily on any make and model. Success, well that’s another discussion for another day.

I wish him all the best.

Technology and money can buy an accurate rifle, the best LR ammunition, the nicest optics, and lasers that give corrections for gravity.

As far as I know, one cannot 'buy' a good wind call, or the ability to build a hasty field shooting position. The only way to build proficiency is plenty of distance shooting, in field conditions, not off the target bench.

Investment in rounds down range, in all kinds of weather and wind, from any field position you can think of and using your pack or sticks or bi-pod, or any other support you can find, is the best investment you can make in long range shooting, it will teach you what your limitations are, no matter what you are shooting for a rifle, glass, and load. Rio7

I don't think that he will acknowledge any limitation in his shooting ability. If he sees an animal that he wants to tag, he'll take the shot regardless of trhe range, wind, or obsticles between the muzzle and the target. If the animal doesn't show any sign of being hit, he'll call it a clean miss and keep hunting.

I wouldn’t be trying to help someone like that but to each their own I guess.

That behavior in a friend would certainly be cause for me to evaluate my friendship; I’d either be signing him/us up for long range shooting classes on my dime or trying some other educational activities that I thought might help. But as the poster above said, to each there own - and I’ll acknowledge the unknowns and variables of every individual situation and relationship. And in no way is this meant as a knock on the OP; I have a significant respect for him based on his posts while I’ve been a member here.

Over the years I’ve had some pretty bad ideas. I’ve always had friends to tell me that it was a bad idea. Some would know it was a bad idea and go along with it with me….lol. It’s gone both ways with us. What I or we’ve never done was to recognize a bad idea then get on the internet and ask for recommendations on the terrible idea.

I don’t mean to be on a high horse or anything but I couldn’t discuss hunting with someone that as the OP said himself will take shots at 1,000 yards and just assume it’s a miss and keep hunting if the animal isn’t found easily. It’s one thing to have a friend that operates that way but a totally different thing to try and help that nonsense then put it online. What’s next asking the best way for my friend to sleep with a married woman?….lol

Geez, I asked for input on what rifle cartridge combination would be a good choice for a person who wants to get into the long range shooting/hunting game. I don't shoot/hunt at long ranges, nothing over 500+/- yards, so I asked for input from people who claim some expertise.

I don't need help picking my friends and I would never insult another adult by signing them up for a class of any sort, as that seems like a really good way to end a relationship.

My friend in question is a casual friend. We meet for lunch 3 or 4 times a year and occasionally go coyote calling on his ranch near White City, KS. He is a guy who is never satisfied and is always churning his guns, vehicles, horses, etc. He calls me when he is looking for a new/different firearm because I have an FFL and can usually order whatever he wants and then sell it to him for my cost and the NE sales tax.

If your friend is running a 139SST hot at around3,200FPS, he is going to be 23 MOA low if he has a 300 yard zero, .he is going to have to dial up 21MOA for 1,000 yard shot . THAT is with zero angle - flat shot, not adjustment for spin drift, wind,, or anything else.
That 139 is going to be only moving about 1,500FPS as well, with a time of flight that is over a full second.
The reason I picked the SST for the example is I have two very accomplished elk hunter friends who use this bullet for long range stuff, but there are many others that use Bergers, Lapuas, etc.
I meet people like your friend every day at our range, and it is a bit disturbing that they think they can make shots like that,
They rarely get onto our 1,000 meter line once people see them shoot at 500 meters however, but they go away with the same attitude " if the APP on my phone gives me the dial up I need I can do it"
No amount of speaking to them with fact wills change their mind.
Personally speaking for long range kills I would be shooting something a lot bigger with a brake on it so I could handle the recoil.
However, I no longer can make reliable long range kills at those distances, soo I don't attempt it.
Cat

I have no idea what loads he is shooting, or planning to shoot.

I have no idea what scope and mounts he has or is planning to buy for this rifle.

All I know is that he found someone to sell him a Savage 110 Ultralight in 280AI for a price he was willing to pay. He never got around to ask me to look for one for him and I never spend much time on his requests because he always wants full retail value for anything that he has to trade and wants to pay wholesale plus shipping and sales tax on anything that he buys. I don't mind breaking even on a trade, but I don't have any incentive to lose money on said trade.

Well I wish your friend all the best , the Savage rifles shoot very well generally no matter how many people hate them !LOL
Cat

If he does long range practice in actual field conditions, he may quickly realize and accept the feasibility of him shooting game at long range.

Sheesh 260:

Sounds like more of a "taker" (in Waylon Jennings' words) than a true friend. I hope this person offers other plusses than just an ability to leverage a relationship to eke out a few bucks on a gun deal. Just my .02.

This. At least that’s true for me.

I have a 25/06 post 64 if of interest in that price range.

I don't deliberately seek long shots , but am set up to make shots out to a grand, with confidence. I put together parts for my rifle and made adjustments along the way. I have about 1500.00 into it and Run just a SWFA 20x I got on discount. It will stay under .5 MOA to a grand for three shots if I do my part and some days I can't .Range time is important if it is spent learning from each shot and just not shooting for effect. The weather and wind calls are never a technology thing , but a learned thing as you stated. Nothing can buy that ,300 yds and a breeze can be cheated ,600 yds and beyond it can not. My economy set up is working , but there are days when I dream of a Large IOR Crusader or a March Genesis ,but they are just dreams.......