Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire Vaccine Failure and the way out

Doesn't even begin to make logical sense. Being vaccinated is supposed to protect you from those who might pass it to you. If it doesn't, it's worthless. Furthermore, its the vaccinated who are the variant factories. A virus doesn't need to make variants in the bodies of unvaccinated people because, in theory, they have no defense against the seminal version.

That right there is bullshyt. Viruses can and do mutate in anyone infected. Viruses do not have intelligence so it's not like they say to themselves "oh shyt, these folks are vaccinated so I need to mutate to overcome it" . The latest variant of concern, the Mu variant came out of South Africa where very few are vaccinated,

You're ignorant. It's about environmental pressure to adapt. The unvaccinated don't provide adaptive pressure to the virus, since they have (in theory) no immunity to the seminal form. Only the vaccinated, in theory, have immunity to the seminal form, so pressures to favor mutations would only be present in them.

You clearly lack basic biological understanding.

I understand that a virus mutation is just that, a mutant. An imperfect replicant like a cancer cell in a mammal and that viruses produce a number of them at random. That can happen in one infected person as well as another. If it were different, then how do you explain the fact that the most variants are not coming out of the most highly vaccinated Countries ? If vaccines encourage more variants then Israel, with the highest vaccination rate as well as the highest infection rate, should be throwing out variants like deflave throws out insults.

You've got to read it in context. The rest of the paragraph.

"If you peer deeper, you’ll generally find this: The vaccinated remain substantially protected against serious illness or death, but the unvaccinated are entering the hospital and dying at very high rates indeed, as if to compensate. Thus Israel has maintained the same case fatality rate of around 0.7%, before and after mass vaccination. If this is just Delta being more dangerous, then we would expect countries with lower vaccination rates to be enduring truly staggering mortality right now, but they are not. In heavily vaccinated countries, Delta is raging with a rare fury among the unvaccinated, but in lesser-vaccinated countries it is doing nothing unusual. This means that the efficacy statistics are broadly unreliable. The exact reasons don’t really matter: Either the vaccines have the power to change the whole picture, or they don’t."

Regardless of what happens in the next few months, the most deadly variation will be peaking about 1 month before the mid term election.

You miss the point. Virus’ mutate equally in vaccinated and unvaccinated people. As a general rule, mutations are a net negative to the organism; a genetic change that makes them less fit to survive. In an unvaccinated host, the mutation has no benefit and the negative consequences of the mutation cause it to go extinct Only in a vaccinated environment will the negative consequence of the mutation be outweighed by the survival advantage and out-reproduce the standard issue version.

You miss the point. Virus’ mutate equally in vaccinated and unvaccinated people. As a general rule, mutations are a net negative to the organism; a genetic change that makes them less fit to survive. In an unvaccinated host, the mutation has no benefit and the negative consequences of the mutation cause it to go extinct Only in a vaccinated environment will the negative consequence of the mutation be outweighed by the survival advantage and out-reproduce the standard issue version.

You miss the point. Virus’ mutate equally in vaccinated and unvaccinated people. As a general rule, mutations are a net negative to the organism; a genetic change that makes them less fit to survive. In an unvaccinated host, the mutation has no benefit and the negative consequences of the mutation cause it to go extinct Only in a vaccinated environment will the negative consequence of the mutation be outweighed by the survival advantage and out-reproduce the standard issue version.

Prezactly.

Then we will see no more mutations beyond Delta since it is clearly able to infect, replicate and transmit through the vaccinated quite effectively no ?

Kingston, you are assuming same levels of exposure between heavily vaccinated populations (Israel) and (countries with lower vaccination rates)

another way to read it - don't be an un-vaccinated person in a highly vaccinated country, if you can help it.

The more it reproduces the more it will mutate.

Each vaccinated person can favor a wide variety of mutations. No reason to assume they'd only favor one particular mutation from the seminal form.

I read an article today out of a local paper. They said 66% of all covid cases here are "breakthrough" cases in vaccinated people. Then they blamed unvaccinated people for getting the vaccinated people sick!

It seems that if Delta is able to infect, replicate and transmit through the vaccinated just fine, then it would be no more or less likely to produce a mutant strain than in an unvaccinated host.