Home Forums Hunting & Shooting General Big Game Forest Service is clamping down on mis-use of ATV's

very true, something to always keep in mind!

I crack up every time I hear we are deviding hunters between ATV use and fence hunting. What we are saying is that the idiots who break the rules should be fined enough to get their attention. I live in Oregon and I personaly get ticked off when I walk behind a gate that says no motor vechicals and wam I get passed after a mile. Or you walk a mile and a half into a meadow that is closed and find a atv camp well those suckers got a nice ticket. Its very simple enforce the rules. We have a lot of private timber in Western Oregon and the atv guys have done some of us a favor they got the roads closed to all trafic they also are getting more heavly patrolled because the atv crowd thinks it is a game to see if they can get caught. If you break the law pay the fine make it a big one.



PS I belong to HBA they have saving use the quads that god gave you....

ATV use on public land: the public resents putting up with them on their trails and wants them to stay on the roads.

- In lies the problem.The trails aren't THEIRS,the trails belong to all of us.And the majority has spoken,they want atv access.

-When you go to the national forest and the vast majority of people have atv's,its no suprise that atv's are going to be used in mass and violations are going to occur its like comparing the murder rate in NYC to that of bumphuck iowa.National forest has 10x more users then they did 15 years ago.Sure theres more people breaking laws.The solution isn't to ban atv's from trail systems. The solution is to enforce the rules you have.


From what I have been able to gather from some of my friends in the granola and North Face crowd they want to maintain a goodly level of 'wild' in the nation's wilderness. They resent the hell out of ATVs showing up where they aren't supposed to be. They feel like some places should be a lot of work to get to and enjoy.


- Actually,what the granolas and sierra club idiots want is their own agenda. They really want their own exclusive area,where only they get to use it.No other use group is like this.

-I've watched the sierra club pull their [bleep] for years in wyoming.In fact the most vocal member of the sierra club in my area is a lardass 55 year old women,who by her own admission hasn't been in wilderness or on the mountain for years.But she's first in line to spew [bleep] about atv's.

-Probably the best meeting I've seen dealing with national forest involved the sierra club and Senator Alan Simpson (R).He listened to them spew [bleep] for about an hour,then responded with "you idiots won't be happy until a man can't even [bleep] in the woods.

Every time, every year for the last 10, let me say that over again, EVERY TIME, I hunt in areas CLOSED to all motorized traffic I see ATV's. ALWAYS!

Hard to believe I know, since all ATV owners are such law abiding citizens that Mother Theresa is a major felon by comparison.

How about the ATV groups policing their own? Not enough enforcement for the rules we have, so how about the millions of law abiding ATV owners sledder brags about, turning in these maggots that ruin it for everyone else.

Maybe because most ATV users don't care!

One thing i've noticed is that one of my favorite elk hotspots up where we used to hunt (sniff) had a motorcycle/ATV trail on the ridge up above, and NEVER, not once, when I was down in that hellhole did I ever hear someone stop their bike or ATV and get off and hunt, nor did I ever see one of those guys down there. So even though you could see down into this hole and tell it was "elky", I always had it to myself because none of those guys would get off the machine and hunt on foot.

I think that the dream of most ATV hunters would go like this: So I'm riding along on my quad ten miles into the woods when I spot an elk! With macho bravado, I jump off my machine, grab my rifle and shoot the elk! Wow! What a hunt!

-jeff

Why is it that every ATV drivin' dipchit that don't like what's happening because they couldn't police their own, tries to write off people pissed off at ATV abuse as people "who can't afford them". What simple minded bullchit. I've got enough dough stuffed away in my piggy bank to buy 10 of the stupid things should I so desire, but haven't, and won't. Hate the fuggin' things, and a good number of the lazy pricks driving them. I'm sick and god damn tired of walking miles back into a roadless area, and even wilderness areas, just to see ATV tracks. And now the forest going population as a whole will suffer because of a few selfish lazy simple minded man-parts challenged over compensating pricks.

Why is it so hard for a few of the ATV crowd to understand that some of us like to head into the woods for some relaxation, peace, and quiet, and not to use as our personal race track or "x-treme off road" trail. This chit needs to stop. The guy looking for a peaceful few moments has no where left to go without getting aggravated to hell by these mental midgets with the "vroom-vroom" mentality. Same chit on our lakes. Impossible to relax on a lake anymore without some dipchit racing around you on a wave runner, or ski boat blaring their music out the ass end of the boat for the entire lake to suffer through.

Sick and fuggin' tired of this "it's all about me and my fun at the expense of other's peace and quiet" mentality.

I have a place just like that. I can park my truck on the shoulder of a highway, get out and walk 10 minutes through a screen of trees and emerge onto the side of a very big canyon with these huge benches. It's elk heaven, and I've killed three elk in there over the last 20 years. It's a limited license unit, and this unit has produced a fair number of B&C bulls.

Across the canyon, there is a ATV trail that winds through the trees on the side of the canyon. Almost without fail, there will be at least one string of ATVs travel down the trail on opening morning--oblivious to the 50-150 headd of elk grazing on the benches below. The elk can't hear or see the ATVs, and the ATVers aren't about to get off their rigs..........






It is--they won't admit it, but it's their dream.

Colorado has attempted to address this by requiring ATV riders during hunting season to have their firearm or bow in a hardcase, and the firearm unloaded--including the magazine. I think it has made some difference.

Casey

Excellent and perceptive post Will.

I grew up hunting elk long before 4wd's were common--much less most of the other high-tech hunting toys we have today. I have often argued that HOW we hunt has a lot to do with the public's perception of hunting--and whether we can continue to hunt in the future.

From high-tech archery to motorized vehicles, we sometimes act like we have declared war on the critters. Deer and elk ain't terrorists, they aren't the enemy.

During the course of the Travel Management planning I was involved in, much of the blame on ATV abuse was laid at the feet of the hunting community. And it was difficult to defend hunters--because it was hard to find evidence of other groups with the same level of abuse.

It didn't put hunters in a very good light.

Yeah, I hate it when I allow myself to get sucked into the name calling rhetoric.........

Casey

So take your crying ass into the wilderness areas and roadless areas.

[/quote]

So take your crying ass into the wilderness areas and roadless areas. [/quote]

You don't seem to grasp that those are the areas that many of us hunt already and we still see friggin ATVs!! The whole gist of this thread is we are sick and tired of ATVs invading wilderness areas and roadless areas!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I could care less what they do on the roads they belong on..............it's the roads and trails and open areas they don't belong on that makes me friggin crazy!!!!!!

Sledder,

Have ever considered trying to express your point of view without resorting to calling anyone who disagrees with you an a$$hole or making suggestions that they are homosexuals (your boyfriend comments).

You may find people more likely to actually listen to your point of view if you were respectful of others. The "anyone who disagrees with me is an a$$hole or an idiot" style of posting is not helping you persuade too many people to your side.

Lost River

The majority want ATV access??

That is hilarious, where do you come up with this stuff? There's probably a good cross section of outdoorsmen right here on this forum, you wanna take a poll?

Did you get your figures showing that "the majority want ATV access" from the same place you got your figures that show the vast majority of people in the national forest have ATVs? Or the same place you got your figures that show nearly every peak in Colorado with an ATV trail to the top?

What a crock. But hey, keep 'em coming, it's entertaining at the least.

The murder rate in NYC vs. the murder rate in BF Iowa?

Now, that makes a lot of sense, yup, it's directly comparable to ATV drivers tearing up the backcountry. Yeah, that's the ticket, I see exactly what you mean.

Majority rule? I don't think it is understood, that this country was founded for individual freedom. This country is not a Democracy, it is a Democratic Republic, tempered at least with the understanding and appreciation of personal rights and freedom.

7 disgusting thugs, and 1 good looking female:
Majority rule is free sex with a 7 to 1 vote.

I can't imagine anyone agreeing with this thinking. Don't get me wrong, I understand this is not the same scenerio, but we have to still recognize that Public land is Public land. Denying ATV use because the majority says so, still does not make it fair.

This whole thing has gone on too long and no one has changed their mind. If we could recognize the problem for what it really is and not get emotional about it we could see common ground.

The points that seems to be missed, are
#1 Off road use in National Forest areas has been entirely eliminated since the changes in the travel plan, starting in 1985

#2 There are so many closures to ATV use in many areas that aren't even Wilderness, that it concentrates the use in these smaller areas, ie. the North Meadow Creek area near Ennis MT.

#3 No one here seems to recognize that it isn't the closed area abuse that is being targeted, it is a continual elimination of trails accessable to ATV use.

We need to be civil about this and many other similar issues, and not become so divided and selfish as to not recognize another's ability to choose.

Wilderness is public land, National Forests are public lands, ATV use is NOT allowed in ANY Wilderness, and if you check the National Forest travel plan, you will find how many restrictions there are on those trails.

The rub here is that instead of managing these trails they are being closed. It should be recognized for what it is, Majority Rule, Mob Rule, either way, there are individual freedoms not being recognized here.

Freedom is not about violating the rights of others, either.

On the other hand, hunting is privilege--not a right.

Then again, if hunting is a right, then I should demand I can hunt elk 24 hours a day, 365 days, and kill as many elk as I want--if you try to stop me, you're violating my rights....







7 ATVer's want to race up and down the sidwalk in front of your home 24 hours a day, but you don't want them too. The 7 ATVers should not be denied that "right"....







It is because it is an entirely false argument.








OK, then don't do the fundamental rights thing.

We have a right to travel on public roads, in the sky, and on the water, but the paths we take are designated by majority rule and/or legislation.

I can't drive on the wrong side of the road, despite the fact I have a right to travel.








Taking that at face value (it's not true), what is really being said is that you have been limited to traveling on designated routes when operating a motorized vehicle--period.

How is that violating your rights?








Prohibiting motorized vehicle travel does not prohibit travel--especially if the area is environmentally sensitive, and prevents motorized vehicle users from disturbing wildlife, soil, creeks, and other users of the forest.








The US Forest Service has closed a tiny fraction of the roads or trails in the National Forest system. The road system on the forests were practically doubled in the 1980's logging programs--haven't even closed a fraction of THOSE roads--and the trails that have resulted by unrestricted use by motorized vehicles. Never mind the 80 years of previous roads and trails created.

If the Forest Service proposed closing 1 mile of its million mile road and trail system, ATVers would oppose it.










Correct. So one must first recognize that motorized vehicles have a significant impact on the forest, and the other users of the forest. Then we can talk about how to accomodate uses.

Keep in mind, if we try to make our public lands into something for everyone, we will not make anyone happy--and that is what has been happening to public lands over the past 30-40 years.

At some point, we are going to have to make decisions about what we want our public lands to be. Should we make them pristine again? Should we turn them into a racetrack for motorized vehicles? Should we emphasize wildlife? Hunting? Mushroom picking? Gas and oil? Livestock? Or just some of these things, but not others?






But you can walk up and down that trail all day and night--and I'll defend your right to travel in that manner.

As said before, if the Forest Service closed 30% of the trails and 4wd roads on our National Forests, there would still be hundreds of thousands of miles of roads and trails left.



This is just the road system for fullsize vehicles:
http://roadless.fs.fed.us/documents/7_26_00_roadless_final.htm







I want to have the individual freedom to camp right next to your camp come hunting season and run 2 or 3 thousand rounds of ammo through my AR-15 everyday (and night) during hunting season--I'm sure you won't oppose my individual freedom to do so.....


Casey

Precisely the point, it doesn't work. If you have been following along sparky, that's exactly what we're talking about. We have "taken our crying asses" into the roadless and wilderness areas, and there's always some mental freakin' midget with the mindset of some slobbering, mouth breathing, numb nutted teenager who just snuck his first solo ride in momma's station wagon out there cruising his ATV in places it is not supposed to be. Tends to piss those of us who are not lazy slob hunting morons and put in honest work toward harvesting our animals or enjoying the scenery off.

Wassa matter, everyone hittin' a little to close to your bullseye here? For the life of me, I can't see why someone who was not some lazy pice of slob hunting chit would have a problem with those of us who have problems with those who use their ATV's illegally. Takes an even smaller mind to not be able to see that some people don't purchase and use these under testosterone compensating machines for reasons other than they "can't afford one". In fact, I'd venture to say there's probably a good number of us here are are very well off, yet do not feel the need to run around the woods on some toy disturbing the serenity and peace and quiet for every living thing within miles and playing around like some pre-teen who just figgured out playin' with his willy makes him happy...

But hey, as long as YOU are having a good time, [bleep] the rest of us, right?

Shrapnel, agreed we should be civil. But again you've used a false analogy, and you've also attributed a desire for "majority rule" to me, which, if you read my post, is not there.

With my comments on "majority rule" I was responding to sledder's point that "the majority has spoken, and they want ATV access." It's sledder who is touting "majority rule" not me. My comments simply question the validity of his claim that "the majority has spoken" because I don't believe "the majority" wants ATV access. That claim is preposterous; if anyone has facts to show otherwise, let's have 'em.

Now, your analogy. It would be accurate IF a bunch of citizens got together and through the democratic process, decided that rape was OK, promulgated rules that allowed the 7 to do whatever they wanted with the one, and then when law enforcement was called to the scene, they let the seven go because there were no laws against rape.

Why is it that ATV proponents regularly resort to these twisted, emotional analogies? Comparing seven thugs raping a woman and/or the anti-gun lobby who wants to take all our guns to sportsmen who are tired of ATV abuse on public land and want our laws enforced (laws that were developed under our Democratic Republic)? Give me a break.

Now, to your point #3 above, if you go back and read the many thoughtful posts here from hunters (not granola crunchers, not Sierra Club members) you'll see that almost universally, we have cited examples of ATVs driving in areas that are closed and ruining our hunts, or in general tearing the place up. So in effect, what IS being targeted here by almost all who have commented against ATV abuse is the fact that ATV users can't seem to stay out of closed areas.

I gave up on reading the whole topic.But here's my take.
ATV's have cut more new trails and tore up more country than horse's ever thought about.
Sent a horse across a meadow and there no new trail send 1 ATV and thier all cutting across that meadow.
I had a G&F Biologist tell me he figures 80% of ATV riders are braken the rules.
That goes along with what I see. Why should they? There is only 1 enforcement officer in the entire Medicine Bow. Nat, forset.
I was 2 miles from the nearest open road on the opening day of elk season.I just had 9 cows/calfs walk by me when here come 2 kids on a ATV. Needless to say I came unglued at them they runed my whole day. I was so TO'ed that I walk the 4 miles back to were I was camped and started packing.
I do not wave, talk or even look up at anyone who hunts off them.
My son bought one, he knows I will not go out with him if he takes the 4 wheeler.
They should outlaw them on the Nat. Forset period. And yes if I find one in a closed area I will disable IT.

This is not directed at Got Lost in particular, but any who speak about shooting up ATV.
At least in some places in Colorado, and for sure where I hunt, some (and I want to repeat, some) roads that are otherwise closed are open for game retrival only, and only at specified times.
Be real sure the ATV you intend to disable really is illegal.

Tracks, the area I hunt is No Motorized Vehicles. They are allowed 300' from a white arrow marked road, It is not open for game retrival.
I'll bet eveyone wants to hike to a place like this and have 4 wheelers running around them!

About the same where I go, except they are not allowed off road at all. Still, being able to knock five or six miles off a drag, even if I have to drag to a road, is a big help.
Used in a legal manner, ATVs can be a useful tool. Not saying I approve of illegal use.