Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Muzzleloaders Savage ML-II, who still uses one?

Run 44 grains 5744 under a 290 grain tipped barnes. Replace the the barnes sabot with a mmp mag black sabot. Ragged hole groups wicked deer performance. As long as you don't get stupid and hotrod the savage it is perfectly safe and effective.

I came here to post a thread asking about this, but then saw this one. I'm also looking for opinions on these. I've always liked the idea of smokeless powder in a muzzleloader and have the opportunity to pick one of these up for a friend for what seems like a reasonable price. On the low end of what they go for on Gunbroker. Although still 2x what it cost before they stopped producing them. I love muzzleloader hunting as the season is the prime time of year to be in the woods. It often coincides with the rut. However, I absolutely dread shooting my current muzzleloader. I'm currently shooting a T/C Triumph with BH209. Even with BH209, it seems to want to rust very quickly after shooting it. For example, I shot it yesterday and it took me 4 hours to get it clean. I know I'll go through this again if I shoot it next week as well. It's a nightmare to keep rust free, seems to rust anyway and also has some pitting where I let a friend borrow it and he didn't clean it for a few days, etc. This is where smokeless powder seems like a huge benefit. I can shoot it for the season and then just clean it once at the end of the season without worrying about rust. It just seemed like a perfect choice and I was pretty set on it.

Then I started reading reports of these guns blowing up and people getting hurt. It seems like a lot of people chalk it up to them being idiots and double charging it, etc. although there is never any proof of this. There seem to be many different reports of this happening across the internet. It scares me enough that I'm wondering if I'd ever really trust shooting it if I did get it. I had a Beretta 92F years ago, and I could never get over all of the reports online of the slide blowing off of the back. I ended up selling it as I just never wanted to shoot it due to that.

So I'm wondering what your experience with these is? Is it worth it? Is it worth taking the plunge? Or is it not enough of an improvement over a traditional muzzleloader that it's worth taking the risk?

I really like my stainless 10MLII. I purchased it years ago and have more confidence in the shot with it than with my previous muzzleloader. I don't hotrod and try crazy loads. I stick to book loads. A 300 gr SST using 44 gr AA45744 yields me 2,080 fps. There's no smoke when you shoot which is an added bonus as you can see the game. I don't worry about cleaning it during the season (2 weeks).

Lastly, it does require more attention to detail when loading one. Weigh your charges just like any other handloading. I use medical vials to store my pre-weighed charges in. Make sure the bullet is firmly seated on the charge and you shouldn't have any issues.

No one is going to readily admit they did something stupid. In a lot of cases they felt they did nothing wrong because the info was found online. There was a lot of questionable load info online. Lot's of advocates of duplex or even triplex loads. Just because someone put it in writing don't means it is safe.

I also preweigh all my charges and store in tubes. Mark your ram rod so you know for certain you have the bullet properly seated. I have put around a 100 rounds down the barrels of two different 10mls. Few variations of bullets. Charge has always been 44 grains of 5744. Have had zero issues and not once have I ever questioned the safety of the gun. No erratic recoil or accuracy no blown primers. No stuck breech plugs or vent liners no damaged threads.

Look at it this way regarding no proof of people double charging their rifle. Of all the people you know well and feel comfortable enough to hunt with, how many of them produce reloaded ammo that you would shoot yourself on a regular basis. Now think of all the people that there is no way you’d ever go hunting with because they are too loose with their safety practices.

A small subset of all of the above groups have purchased a Savage Smokeless muzzleloader. A very small fraction of these have had one blowup and claim the fault was with the gun. Now in each case of a blowup, think about whether it is more likely Savage produced a faulty gun or the shooter followed the proper loading technique 100% accurately.

And every load in a muzzleloader is a hand load. Mostly done by folks that don’t hand load any other time. Double charging cartridge loads is fairly easy to detect. Muzzle loaders not so much. I wonder too how many actually have a marked ramrod and check the charge.

In the campfire section slumlord has a picture of a pretty awesome but taken just a day the rifle would appear to be the Savage muzzleloader.

I do and I love it.

250 grn hornady xtp
MMP (low pressure) [although most will advise high press sabot]
55 grns VvN-120
Remington sts 209

Not varied the load ever and won’t.

I would recommend a sims pad if youre on thinners

No problems since 2010, they a proof tested for about 3 x what an idiot will charge them with. If you can blow one up then you have no business being near any muzzleloader.

Made in USA baby !!!













And it works good on little ones too. And does and yotes 👍

Why would you want to shoot a pressure starved load of N120 with a 250gr bullet when you can get the same speed with far less N110 that is not pressure starved?

N120 has NEVER been recommended with anything less than a 275gr bullet in the MLII and for good reason. Its very temp sensitive with lighter bullets.

Because it’s accurate in my barrel and kills the fouck out of deer

I’ve had one for a few years now, stainless with laminated thumb hole stock , never had an issue , shoots amazing groups .

Pics or it didnt happen.......er wait a minute LOL

Guy I worked w loved his Sav MZ.
Shot one load in it and said it was the best thing he ever tried ( for these parts- being at that time a shotgun, Mz and handgun state ).

I suspect his hunting pard got it when he passed.

With the allowance of PCR and even HP rifle now, I wonder how many of those rigs are in the backs of safes and havent seen daylight for years.

My season has sucked so far and I dread having to go late w MZ in the cold to fill my buck tag.
Dont run a smokeless MZ.

They are cool and I have zero probs or worries about them.

Juat got too old and cranky to mess w em.

Our MZ season is later and we are a 1 buck state.

No different than any other loading/reloading...

Well i guess if you are happy with velocity swings measured in 100s of fps when temps change.....More power to you. Ive seen N120 loose nearly 400fps over a 30F change when shooting 250gr bullets but some people prefer to ignore facts and repeatable pressure traces. Your 55gr load is already on the low end with a 300gr bullet but it will work with a minimal fps loss when the temps drop.

56-60gr with a 300gr has been a solid recommended load for ages. Even Savage recommends it with a 300gr bullet ONLY. 40gr of N110 will give you roughly the same speed or more with a far better temp stability when shooting a 250gr.

It's a damn fine rifle and it was a sad day when Savage quit making them.

I run 36-40gr of n110 under various 300 grainers. Muy accurate.

Can someone tell me if the laminate thumb hole stocks I have seen mostly on S.S. guns were produced and sold by Savage .

I believe Boyd's made them for Savage and most other manufacturers .