Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters 6.5 Creedmoor for Elk & Moose under 300yd - what bullet

Pints, seems like you've gotten good advice here from those that have actually used the 6.5CM/6.5x55 on elk and moose.

Of course, the Campfire being what it is, you've also gotten a fair chair of surmising (aka guessing), egoism/narcissism, and plain stupidity.

I often marvel that just because someone owns a 6.5 CM (or any cartridge) they somehow believe that gives them the authority to give advice on a game animal they've never taken with the round. I equate 6.5x55 experience as same/same. However, a 9.3x62/338 WM/ 300 Mag, etc., are not the same. Crazy concept, right?

I've owned sever 6.5 CM's, and have loaded and shot a variety of bullets into paper from it, but I've never taken one head of game with the round. Guess what? I don't have an opinion based on experience, and therefore have refrained from commenting.

What I've done instead is waded through the BS, noted the opinions of those with experience, and tucked away the info for the future. Am I special because of that? No, just endeavored to act like an adult... sigh.

Nope, it's facts and that's what has the clowns all upset, because they can't opine against facts. Animals were shot. Barnes and target bullets failed. Those are the facts. Now, if you decide you want to shoot one of the bullets that failed, that's your opinion, and your choice. Lots of people are born losers and love to do whatever doesn't work. You may be one of those people. That's the way some people are. Have at it

Well, speaking of facts…..

I have shot exactly one large bodied mule deer with a Barnes TSX bullet. He fell over dead in his tracks and had a small entry hole and a much larger exit wound. Unscientific at best with a sample size of 1.

However, the last 5 elk and 2 mule deer that I shot with 7mm and .300 Wby using Barnes TTSX’s went right down DRT or traveled distances measured in a few feet. Hunting partners using the same bullets have had similar results.
Before I used TTSX’s, Trophy Bonded Bear Claws did the heavy lifting until they turned to unobtainium.

Them there’s the facts, bud.

I guess I just wonder in what world a well built bullet from the CM wouldn’t be okay for moose or elk out to 300 yards. But as Brad said, I haven’t shot either with a CM, only deer.


When my daughter or young son draw their first elk tag I’m betting they’ll have a 6.5 or 7mm of some sort and I’d bet they’ll do okay. Just like my older son did with his 7x57 and 150 Partitions.

Exactly!

Nice small sample. While he's generally an idiot, Mule Deer is right that many hunters don't understand statistics. You're one of them. I've seen 10+ bullet failures a year for decades. It's pretty obvious what's failing, and it is a statistically valid sample although collected as a natural experiment rather than a controlled one, And Barnes monos are one of the frequent failures. Match bullets are the other. You'd be better off with a Core Lokt than either probably, but since it's an expensive hunt don't be a clown and buy some TBBC/Terminal Ascents or A-Frames or Northforks.

Ah. Argue with a gun writer doing this for years. Makes sense.

And the SMK are crap now too? Granted they aren't 100% same results every last shot but they have been much more reliable than SGK.

Re: 7 Mag vs 270 Win [Re: Seafire] #12056628 05/27/17 05:55 AM
Online Content
Llama_Bob
Campfire Regular
L
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 1,243
We're talking about two very similar cartridges. .0.007" difference in bore diameter and both long action. There are a few differences. The most notable is twist rate - 1:10" for .270 vs. 1:9.5" for 7mm mag typically. That may not seem like much, but it does mean the heaviest flat base bullet that is all-altitude/temp stable in .270 is the 150gr, whereas in the 7mm mag it's the 175gr. Elk are pretty good sized critters (400 to 750 lbs generally, up to more than 1000 for Roosevelt elk). You'd really like pass through bullet performance on side and quartering shots. That means sectional density is a good thing, and that gives a small but noticeable edge to the 7mm mag.

While both cartridges have similar velocities for similar weights when loaded to SAAMI max, .270 is generally not loaded to max in commercial ammo. That's because .270 relies on higher pressure, while 7RM relies on case capacity. Manufacturers are leery of pushing the pressure envelope in the .270 and load it down.

For your friend, my take is you would see very little difference between the 160 7mm partition and the 150 .270 partition as they have very similar sectional densities. But you might see some improvement moving up to the 175 class in 7mm. I would also look at using the A-frame instead of the partition. The partition shines in situations where impact velocity may be low - the soft lead tip will open up well below 2000 ft/s. But at higher velocities it sheds a lot of mass which reduces penetration. The A-frame is bonded and has a harder front section. It needs an impact velocity of at least 2100 ft/s, but won't shed much mass no matter how fast your drive it and pretty much guarantees an exit wound (and thus something to track if need be) on elk. For that reason I like A-Frames. I shoot the 175 A-Frame in a 7RM on elk and have had excellent results. I used to use the 175 partition, and had good results but not as good.

I haven't used the Barnes and can't speak to them, but they're well thought of. A 150gr barnes in .270 is probably not all-altitude/temp stable - too long.

Either will work, but if the 7RM doesn't beat him up I would definitely have a preference that way.

Last edited by Llama_Bob; 05/27/17 05:56 AM.




In 2017 you posted you haven't used the Barnes and can't speak to them.... But now you have seen examples of all models of Barnes bullets fail to expand and pencil through..... And you claim to have extensive knowledge of barnes failures by examining shot and lost elk that you found....

Use whatever makes you happy but the information you spew as fact is simply not accurate and unbelievable.

I believe bullets know if the shooter is big or small and they act accordingly. Cause they work fine for the smaller folks and like [bleep] for full grown barrel Chested, freedom loving men. At least that’s what I hear.

Bob, I would cheerfully pay the tuition required to attend your 500 level course -
Forensic Identification of Unrecovered Projectiles.
And am sure the FBI would be interested in sending techs to further their education.

I already said I don't use them. You have a reading comprehension problem?

Also, I never said I've seen "all models" more crap you made up. When you see a pencil wound yeah it's a Barnes and sometime you find out from the outfitter which one. But sometimes all you know is it's yet another Barnes failure, not whether it's a X or TSX or TTSX or LRX.

Here's another clown with a reading comprehension problem. I already explained that often you find out what outfitter is missing an elk and what bullet was used. Their guys aren't shooting FMJ, so when you see a pencil wound it's Barnes. This really isn't that complicated.

A truism in life is when everyone - and I DO mean everyone - thinks you're a fool, it might be time for some self-assessment...

You think whatever the hell you like. I'll keep laughing at your sorry ass and watching you dance and we'll go from there

Things I have learned from Llama Bob in the past few weeks:

All Barnes bullets typically fail to expand
Nosler Accubonds and Partions are tier 2 bullets
The 30-06 is an inferior hunting cartridge
The 6.5x55 is slightly less inferior than the 30-06
NULA rifles are a terrible design
Mule Deer is generally an idiot
Simulation and load to velocity is a better way of load development than using manuals

I can't wait for today's lesson.

🤣

LB, off topic but where the hell are you finding this stash of Terminal Ascents and TLR’s cause I think they’re great bullets as well but I haven’t seen any for sale in quite awhile now.

And I’d wonder how doing an examination of an elk shot in October shows much of anything after rotting for a solid month in the mountains that’s really identifiable let alone being able to stand close enough to one really dig and lift on them.

6 of those 7 are obviously correct. One you failed at reading comprehension. Good to hear you're learning though.

I haven't seen any TLRs in a while - my understanding is they're discontinued. I have a large stash though. The TAs, I just have an alert at every vendor and occasionally search gunbroker. They pop up from time to time.

Llama_Bob suffers from Dunning-Kruger effect.

This always baffles me with cartridges as well.

A 6.5 , .243, etc. is sufficient for women and kids, but a full grown man should use nothing short of a .338, etc.