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A few years ago I ran into a guy hunting with a very attractive interesting underhammer 20 bore muzzle loader. I got a chance to handle it and shoot a few rounds at a local range in CO and was impressed. This guy had taken quite a few Muleys and Elk and told be those big 300 plus grain round balls were deadly. Anyway does anybody know anything about these guns. Apparently they were called Zephyrs made by Roger Renner/Pacific Rifle somewhere in the PNW but I’ve never seen another or found any info on them.
Rick
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I think they’re out of business. The website homepage is dated 2010, but I didn’t see any way to contact them. I think now the only way into an underhammer rifle is custom or DIY from a kit, unless you find a used one from H&A or another maker.
I bought a .36 Cook underhammer pistol from Pedersoli, direct from the Italian Firearms Group. Took about four months to arrive from Italy. Have yet to shoot it, but it’s on the list.
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I’m really surprised nobody has any experience or info on these rifles. The rifle I handled was a bit unusual but obviously high quality and shot well. I was told the builder was Roger Renner (sp) and I know he was or still is a well respected gunsmith. I’m sure he built and sold more than just a handful so I’m still hoping somebody can fill in some blanks
Rick
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They’ve always been expensive, really expensive towards the end. Doubt there were all that many made.
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Some 20 years ago ,I made friends with Bill Cantrell of Seymour, MO. He was making muzzle loading barrels and I think these were used on the guns. I remember the 62 caliber barrels he was sending out. He was send a video of the gun being used in Africa.I think the person shot 5 major animals using it and all were one shot kills. He rolled a zebra when he shot it. The guide wanted to try it and he shot a duck at 250 yards on a lake there. He stated it shot one inch high at 100,150, and 200 yards.
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Pappy thanks and I’m sure they were expensive compared to most production rifles I have no idea what the gun saw cost but I’m sure you’re right.
Is Cantrell still around and reachable ? I’d bet the 20 bore I saw and shot would certainly take many African game. The guy I met said he’d taken Elk and one shot blew the both shoulder bones out of one which is quite a bit of punch. I’ve never seen one come up for sale which days something I guess. Thanks
Rick
Last edited by Woodpecker; 01/07/22. Reason: Addendum
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It was likely RJ Renner. I've seen his work on muzzleloadingforum.com and have bought a rifle from him before. Good guy, and I'm not sure he does muzzleloaders anymore. You'd have to contact him. http://www.rjrenner.com/
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No idea. I was hoping someone else would take up the “quest” but searching “underhammer” is pretty fruitless. When I first saw them years ago, I think they were $1500 or more, outta my reach then for certain. The last ones wereway up there, maybe $3k? There was a .72 African with dual cap ignition IIRC for the heavy charges.
Another outfit, October Country I think made .62 slow twist guns too, but sidelocks. No idea about their current stuff. At my age, 200gr or so of powder is probably best left to conjecture, not experienced😱
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They (the Pacific Zephyr's) were quality and nicely finished, but priced pretty high for what they were: An updated Hopkins and Allen underhammer. Like the H&A's of the 1960s, 70s, and 80s, the action was a hammer, trigger, and a trigger guard that serves as a mainspring. What made the Zephyr's special was the barrels with Forsyth (or Forsythe) rifling. Renner had a webpage for underhammer enthusiasts that hasn't been updated. I believe his operation ended up with The Gun Works in Oregon, which still has a website, but doesn't show that particular underhammer design.
If you really want a rifle of that design, just go to Pecatonica River Muzzleloading. They offer (or used to) a couple of underhammer kits, to include the H&A design. Rice Barrel Company offers their outstanding barrels with Forsyth rifling; get one that's tapered or swamped and it would be a lot easier than putting together a Lancaster or Hawken.
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I’m not looking to buy or build, my building days are behind me and anything more than a 338 is more recoil than my reverse shoulder will tolerate these days. The few shots I made with one were stoked with 200 grs of ff and with no recoil pad and the crescent style steel butt plate it would flat out jerk the slack out you. Powerful rifle
I finally talked to a guy who said he knew Renner when he was living in Oregon as I recall. He had a large ring Mauser built by him years ago in some large bore Ackley improved and thought highly of his work. He was of the opinion that these under hammers didn’t sell very well and at one time were written up in Gun Digest but I can’t find the article. He used the Forsythe rifling system with a extremely slow bore something like 140-1 which was a proven concept with big bore ball guns in the late 19th century. Apparently Forsythe was a military ballistics engineer for the British army and proved best accuracy and velocity with this slow turn. His rifling was popular with hunters in Africa and India where on thicker skinned game they shot bronze balls. He has a book by Forsythe he may loan me if he can find it.
He thinks lack of these special barrels was key in dropping these rifles. I can’t find info on Cantrell in MO so maybe his source passed or quit. He also mentioned that Renner was a very talented gunsmith who would tire of a design after a while and jump into another looking for another challenge. That’s all I know so far
Rick
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Thanks, Skeen. That's the most recent info I've seen on the Pacific rifles. When I see that Renner has a "TM" by "Genuine Forsyth Rifling", I get the slight whiff of a huckster.
The best article I've found on Forsyth rifles/rifling was by Ross Seyfried in the old Blackpowder Hunting magazine. It must have had some influence on me, as I bothered to save it. The deer I killed last month was with a lovely Steve Zihn-built English style .62 caliber rifle that has Forsyth style rifling; a Moody barrel if I recall correctly. Based on its dimensions/architecture alone, I'd take it over any of the Pacific Zephyrs/Faetons I've seen pictured.
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Mesabi you have a very discerning, if not, critical nose. I have to agree to a point that Renner writes well and spins a seductive promotional yarn. He is after all selling his rifles and like Weatherby, Keith, Phil Sharpe, Harry Pope and legions of gun builders and writers takes some liberty with the facts. But I think the man is a true craftsman and as such should be able to excercise some privilege just like so many others. You can’t sell high dollar custom rifles telling the public they are pretty good. I may be wrong on the definition but “ huckster “ kind of implies a certain level of deceit or crap and I’d like to think he is not that. Sounds like you are a man with very discriminating tastes and lovely rifles
Regards Rick
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This is how I scratched the underhammer itch: Pedersoli Cook pistol We have an anything goes ML season after the Firearms season, but the Mountaineer Heritage Season rules only permit sidelocks, so the Zephyr wouldn’t be legal, sad to say. I will attend to it with a musket.
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You guys reminded me that I have an early Renner made "Pacific Zephyr" 62 caliber (20 bore). I purchased it from the original owner some 13 or so years ago. It came with a bullet mold, some balls, patches and felt wads. Was purchased for Elk hunting. I shot it a few times and it ended up in the back of the safe. If I remember right, It uses 175 grains of powder behind a 328 grain round ball and is very accurate though recoil is substantial shooting that much powder. This rifle has the Forsyth style rifled barrel. A nicely figured Bastogne walnut buttstock and forearm. It has the optional factory peep sight installed and all the paperwork, .610" bullet mold (never casted with). It would be for sale if anyone is interested. share pic onlinebest image host
Last edited by Sharps1874; 01/09/22.
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You guys reminded me that I have an early Renner made "Pacific Zephyr" 62 caliber (20 bore). I purchased it from the original owner some 13 or so years ago. It came with a bullet mold, some balls, patches and felt wads. Was purchased for Elk hunting. I shot it a few times and it ended up in the back of the safe. If I remember right, It uses 175 grains of powder behind a 328 grain round ball and is very accurate though recoil is substantial shooting that much powder. This rifle has the Forsyth style rifled barrel. A nicely figured Bastogne walnut buttstock and forearm. It has the optional factory peep sight installed and all the paperwork, .610" bullet mold (never casted with). It would be for sale if anyone is interested. share pic onlinebest image hostVery cool!
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That’s what I’m talking about. The very same rifle I saw, handled and shot twice. Looks absolutely new do you have any numbers in mind ?
Rick
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Rick, It has a few handling marks in the wood. Metal and bore are 99%. I would like to get my money back out of it. $1375.00 shipped for everything
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I had to ask but honestly my shoulder prevents this from being any more than a dream. This is a great deal at this price and should go to somebody who can hunt with it. Good luck it should sell to somebody who appreciates the craftsmanship and ballistics this rifle offers
Rick
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Thanks Rick, The last one I seen sell was on "Track of the Wolf's" web page for $1800.00, that was a few years ago. Not many know what it is, so will likely be a hard sell. That is okay, it can live in my safe!
Last edited by Sharps1874; 01/09/22.
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