[ Geez! How big of a generator was he being quoted? Was that installed? The cost of the generator was about $2,000 below the list price that I see online and the install was pretty pricey. The total with tax, running all the gas lines, concrete pad, switches, etc…..was $28,800. The 27 kw was $23,700 after they viewed the site. They originally said it would be $21,000 ($22,732.50 with tax) for the 27 kw, but that wasn’t a couple of nuances.
Yeah, that was installed with automatic switches and such.
Far too many people who think they are experts on this thread and no one listening to the one or two people who actually know what they are talking about- like almost all threads on electrical installations on this site....
Yes, 48 KW is a lot of power, but if you can afford it and you want to be able to run everything you run every day of the year, then maybe you will need it. Most people can get through a few days of power outages fine by rationing power and their lifestyle isn't overly affected. Even if you have longer outages in the week or two week duration you can easily get by with half your normal power requirement if you can live with being a bit uncomfortable or simply cutting off the unneeded electrical devices when the generator is running. You just have to decide what is a "must have" during a power outage and what isn't ... I used to go through this all the time with customers and I think the biggest stand by generator I ever put in was a 24 KW on a very large home . I never had anyone complain about their generator or issues during any outages.... you would be surprised how much you can cut out if you need to....
One way to actually determine what you need is to have an electrical contractor or your utillity put a recording meter on your service incoming and let it run for a few days to a week to tell you exactly how much power you are actually pulling at peak hours... having a 200 or 225 Amp service doesn't tell you anything about how much power you are actually using.
Yes, your installation costs are going to go up substantially if going from a 24 KW unit to a 48KW unit. The ATS is going to be bigger (and much more expensive), the wire and installation materials will be higher, the space you need for the equipment will be bigger, and the connections to your existing panel will take more time- probably involving installing a second panel to separate the circuits on the generator and which stay on the unloaded side- or simply a transfer switch on the main panel so you can run dual feeds to your incoming service... depending on which route you go...
Another thing I have found is many times the recommended "installer" from places like Costco, Home Depot, etc... are substantially more expensive than having your neighborhood electrician come out and give you a price.... but neither of them is going to be cheap these days...
Never underestimate your ability to overestimate your ability.
Far too many people who think they are experts on this thread and no one listening to the one or two people who actually know what they are talking about- like almost all threads on electrical installations on this site....
Yes, 48 KW is a lot of power, but if you can afford it and you want to be able to run everything you run every day of the year, then maybe you will need it. Most people can get through a few days of power outages fine by rationing power and their lifestyle isn't overly affected. Even if you have longer outages in the week or two week duration you can easily get by with half your normal power requirement if you can live with being a bit uncomfortable or simply cutting off the unneeded electrical devices when the generator is running. You just have to decide what is a "must have" during a power outage and what isn't ... I used to go through this all the time with customers and I think the biggest stand by generator I ever put in was a 24 KW on a very large home . I never had anyone complain about their generator or issues during any outages.... you would be surprised how much you can cut out if you need to....
One way to actually determine what you need is to have an electrical contractor or your utillity put a recording meter on your service incoming and let it run for a few days to a week to tell you exactly how much power you are actually pulling at peak hours... having a 200 or 225 Amp service doesn't tell you anything about how much power you are actually using.
Yes, your installation costs are going to go up substantially if going from a 24 KW unit to a 48KW unit. The ATS is going to be bigger (and much more expensive), the wire and installation materials will be higher, the space you need for the equipment will be bigger, and the connections to your existing panel will take more time- probably involving installing a second panel to separate the circuits on the generator and which stay on the unloaded side- or simply a transfer switch on the main panel so you can run dual feeds to your incoming service... depending on which route you go...
Another thing I have found is many times the recommended "installer" from places like Costco, Home Depot, etc... are substantially more expensive than having your neighborhood electrician come out and give you a price.... but neither of them is going to be cheap these days...
I didn’t have a 24 kw generator quote. The smallest I had was a 27 kw before the survey and there was only about $5,000 difference between it and the 48 kw. There is a big difference in price between the 24 kw Guardian series and the 27 kw Protector series. That is the point they change to a higher unit. I would be pizzed if I tried to cut corners for that small of a difference in price and it couldn’t run what I intended.
But I am still curious at the comment from Oldman about my panel and wattage calculation. I am sure he will chime in. I looked up a few things after asking him about it and came across this.
If whatever size main breaker you have in your house is not giving you any trouble, use the formula and figure what size kw generator that will equal to. and the same size kw generator will not give you any problems.
If you want bigger, that's your choice.
I am not sure what you mean about it not giving me any trouble? Can you be more specific? The only trouble I guess I am having is that I cannot add anything to my house currently without upgrading from a 200 amp service to a 400 amp service. Maybe that is the only trouble I am having.
Ok, what I meant is that you are not having problems with tripping breakers. If you turn on the stove or ac or crank up the welding machine, and you trip a breaker. If this is happening, you need to upgrade to a bigger main breaker in your home. You stated that you were maxed out on a 200 amp main. Who told you or how did you/they come to this conclusion? Getting a bigger generator will let you run more, but if you haven't got the circuits, you're not going to run more than is already there. And, when the generator is not running, you will be back on the current system.
Oldman03, you should stop replying to this thread about now... first off, you calculations make no sense. Yes, 200 A x 120V comes to 24KW- pretty easy math for a high school electrical student. But I guess you haven't figured out that only works if you are only using one buss in the panel at 120V.... but there are two busses in the panel, and the generator, and the utility supply because we use 240V in residential settings for an awful lot of loads, so you have to figure out the electrical supply by 200 A x 240 V = 48KW...... and on top of that, no one in the trade does a home electrical calculation by what the main breaker size is...
As usual, the OP would be wise to get some references for good electrical contractors in the area and get your info from them.... it will be a lot more accurate than getting advice on this site...
Never underestimate your ability to overestimate your ability.
If whatever size main breaker you have in your house is not giving you any trouble, use the formula and figure what size kw generator that will equal to. and the same size kw generator will not give you any problems.
If you want bigger, that's your choice.
I am not sure what you mean about it not giving me any trouble? Can you be more specific? The only trouble I guess I am having is that I cannot add anything to my house currently without upgrading from a 200 amp service to a 400 amp service. Maybe that is the only trouble I am having.
Ok, what I meant is that you are not having problems with tripping breakers. If you turn on the stove or ac or crank up the welding machine, and you trip a breaker. If this is happening, you need to upgrade to a bigger main breaker in your home. You stated that you were maxed out on a 200 amp main. Who told you or how did you/they come to this conclusion? Getting a bigger generator will let you run more, but if you haven't got the circuits, you're not going to run more than is already there. And, when the generator is not running, you will be back on the current system.
Oldman03, you should stop replying to this thread about now... first off, you calculations make no sense. Yes, 200 A x 120V comes to 24KW- pretty easy math for a high school electrical student. But I guess you haven't figured out that only works if you are only using one buss in the panel at 120V.... but there are two busses in the panel, and the generator, and the utility supply because we use 240V in residential settings for an awful lot of loads, so you have to figure out the electrical supply by 200 A x 240 V = 48KW...... and on top of that, no one in the trade does a home electrical calculation by what the main breaker size is...
As usual, the OP would be wise to get some references for good electrical contractors in the area and get your info from them.... it will be a lot more accurate than getting advice on this site...
I will get another local estimate if not two. My original question was about the normally aspirated vs. turbo charged natural gas generators and if anyone had any experience with long term reliability of one vs. another. The thread careened off into the part that there was no way I needed a generator of that size that I was calculating and ended up being quoted.
I do get the value of getting local expert advice which I will, but I like to hear from other’s experiences whether they had trouble with one issue or another. It isn’t hard to weed through some of the advice thrown out as not being knowledgeable, but I have gotten a few points that I want to ask the installers that I didn’t consider.
Hmmmm, the only reason I get involved in these threads any more is because of guys like you giving information when you would be much better off trying to learn something...
I guess my background as and electrician for 40 years doing residential, commercial, and industrial installations doesn't really qualify in your world? How about 20 years of that as an electrical contractor?
Longbob- sorry your thread went sideways. Wish I could help with the generator issue, but I've never installed a Generac unit. Mostly Kohler, and the Onan units unless I was on a large commercial/industrial projects where we installed very large generators with CAT diesel engines in them....
Bob
Never underestimate your ability to overestimate your ability.
I have a 20k Generac for about 10 years fed by Liquid Propane. My house is approx 2250 sq ft and it will run the whole thing without a problem. I buried a 500 gal tank (so the flow never gets interrupted due to extreme cold weather) and have it serviced every 6 months...runs like a clock when called upon.
Originally Posted by Longbob
I am having a survey done in about 3 weeks for a whole house backup generator. The initial estimate was that I would need a 27 kw natural gas generator, but I suspect it might be a little on the small side. The 32 kw generator wasn't materially more expensive and I may go that route. One of the significant differences is that the 27 kw natural gas generator is naturally aspirated where the 32 kw natural gas generator is the same engine, but turbocharged.
I have no idea the reliability for these types of engines in a emergency generator, but was hoping someone here had some experience. Go normally aspirated if it is just enough or up for the extra with the turbo charged unit?
When looking at whole house generators there are a host of options available in the ATS switch units. I would recommend a few of them as definite to get, and others for convenience- You will need battery charging for the generator starting battery, block heater circuit to keep the engine oil warm enough to start in cold weather, automatic exercising so the generator starts and runs for approximately 30-60 minutes every 30 days, low oil alarm, low fuel alarm if you are running diesel, over temp alarm, quiet enclosure insulation for extra quiet operation, and a few others ... many of these also have alarms you can tie into your security system to report to you remotely- security alarm, fire alarm, fuel overflow alarm (diesel or gas fuel), and a few others if you wish to install them.
Last edited by Sheister; 01/17/22.
Never underestimate your ability to overestimate your ability.
When looking at whole house generators there are a host of options available in the ATS switch units. I would recommend a few of them as definite to get, and others for convenience- You will need battery charging for the generator starting battery, block heater circuit to keep the engine oil warm enough to start in cold weather, automatic exercising so the generator starts and runs for approximately 30-60 minutes every 30 days, low oil alarm, low fuel alarm if you are running diesel, over temp alarm, quiet enclosure insulation for extra quiet operation, and a few others ... many of these also have alarms you can tie into your security system to report to you remotely- security alarm, fire alarm, fuel overflow alarm (diesel or gas fuel), and a few others if you wish to install them.
Thanks for the info. I have been rolling the dice for years about getting one and found out last year during our cold snap that I am on the same circuit as an emergency hospital and nursing home a few blocks from me. We didn’t get caught up in the rolling blackouts, but we have had blackouts in the past. Both the hospital and nursing home have generators. Only upside is that I may not be subject to the rolling blackouts, but that doesn’t prevent the normal ones when a transformer or something else goes out. The have been happening a lot more often lately.
We just had a 24kw generac installed and despite having 400A at the house, the generator has 100A service. So, a/c units have a delay for start up to account for load.
We had 6 or 7 outages last year, 3 of which lasted 24 hrs plus.
They told me 12 months wait time, but got mine in 6 months.
We just had a 24kw generac installed and despite having 400A at the house, the generator has 100A service. So, a/c units have a delay for start up to account for load.
We had 6 or 7 outages last year, 3 of which lasted 24 hrs plus.
They told me 12 months wait time, but got mine in 6 months.
They told me July/August timeframe. I will see what the others say.
You are exactly the kind of person who should invest in a generator. Apparently you are doing your due diligence, so just keep doing what you're doing until you feel comfortable by budget, and contractor references and personality...
I"m retired now but I have heard that just like everything else these days, generators take some time to get so be patient...
Never underestimate your ability to overestimate your ability.
A look in your panel box will reveal your 240 circuits. Use your previous electric bills for idea of usage . You will not have all outlets/circuits in use at once. Most Generator salesman sell too much generator
Here in my neighborhood alone (about 120 houses) I can take you to about 15 people who have no use for Generac. We were without power for 19 days after hurricane Ida. Some homeowners are so upset they disconnected them and threw them out with the hurricane debris. My neighbor was getting parts brought in from Alabama twice and still could not keep his generac running. The local rep who opened immediately after the storm could not keep parts in stock and service calls went unanswered. I am sure all manufacturers have their issues and I can not vouch for the maintenance or lack of but the common name brought up when people talk about generator problems in south Louisiana is Generac.
