|
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 972
Campfire Regular
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 972 |
I think that both environmental regulations and market forces will move shooters towards less use of lead ammunition, but it will be uneven state-by-state.
- market forces are already making non-toxic ammunition competatively priced with lead ammunition; - the continuing documented and widespread accounts of birds (some rare) being poisoned by lead-contaminated game carcasses convince more people to hunt with less lead; - target ranges will continue to be an accepted outlet for lead ammunition, as will most private lands, so ammo manufacturers are willing to diversify their product line with new and old projectiles, rather than just fight transition away from lead;
And there are other market and dietary factors that influence this trend in other countries. Realize that Britain is about to outlaw all game hunting with lead. Why? Because much (and in some cases the majority... i.e. pheasant) of the harvest is sold into the human consumption market. Processors and consumers want birds shot with steel because it is easy to detect and remove from carcasses during processing, whereas lead is much more difficult to detect and considered a dangerous contaminant when left in the food chain.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 13,248 Likes: 15
Campfire Outfitter
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 13,248 Likes: 15 |
A man should never be fined for feeding his family. Right. I caught poachers shooting deer at night from $40-50K 4WD trucks with state of the art firearms and scopes that said they were just trying to feed their family.
Patriotism (and religion) is the last refuge of a scoundrel. Jesus: "Take heed that no man deceive you." Hebrew Roots Judaizer
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 13,248 Likes: 15
Campfire Outfitter
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 13,248 Likes: 15 |
I hunt ducks and deer on my own property. I'll do as I wish. Wrong
Patriotism (and religion) is the last refuge of a scoundrel. Jesus: "Take heed that no man deceive you." Hebrew Roots Judaizer
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2022
Posts: 665
Campfire Regular
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Jan 2022
Posts: 665 |
I hunt ducks and deer on my own property. I'll do as I wish. Wrong Right. You keep following the laws of those that wish to destroy the country, I'll do as I wish.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2022
Posts: 665
Campfire Regular
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Jan 2022
Posts: 665 |
A man should never be fined for feeding his family. Right. I caught poachers shooting deer at night from $40-50K 4WD trucks with state of the art firearms and scopes that said they were just trying to feed their family. I hope you charge right out to Oregon and citizen arrest all those breaking the Federal pot laws. You are another useful idiot for the government
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 13,248 Likes: 15
Campfire Outfitter
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 13,248 Likes: 15 |
I hunt ducks and deer on my own property. I'll do as I wish. Wrong Right. You keep following the laws of those that wish to destroy the country, I'll do as I wish. What 'cha gonna do when they come for you? Shoot 'em?
Patriotism (and religion) is the last refuge of a scoundrel. Jesus: "Take heed that no man deceive you." Hebrew Roots Judaizer
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 4,942 Likes: 5
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 4,942 Likes: 5 |
A man should never be fined for feeding his family. Right. I caught poachers shooting deer at night from $40-50K 4WD trucks with state of the art firearms and scopes that said they were just trying to feed their family. Maybe after spending all that cash on trucks and toys, they could not afford groceries?
Life Member NRA, RMEF, American Legion, MAGA. Not necessarily in that order.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2022
Posts: 665
Campfire Regular
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Jan 2022
Posts: 665 |
I hunt ducks and deer on my own property. I'll do as I wish. Wrong Right. You keep following the laws of those that wish to destroy the country, I'll do as I wish. What 'cha gonna do when they come for you? Shoot 'em? I guess you'd call the authorities if your local government mandated masks, right? Gathering sizes? I hope Anne Frank doesn't set up shop in your neighbor's attic Sieg Heil, Adolf.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2019
Posts: 505
Campfire Regular
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Nov 2019
Posts: 505 |
When I heard that Sierra bullets bought Barnes bullets, the first thought that came to my mind was that they see the writing on the wall and are diversifying.
Liars should have good memories. H. Babcock
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 32,219 Likes: 7
Campfire 'Bwana
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 32,219 Likes: 7 |
I have a few hundred rounds of shot shells containing lead shot, From 00 buck to #10s, in 410, 20, but mostly 12.- mostly pheasant/duck/goose loads, and thousand of square miles to shoot it in, with nary a game warden in sight. I don't hunt waterfowl anymore, or I'd use them up - the environmental impact would be so close to zero as to be indistinguishable. Only occasionally do I hunt grouse or hare with a shotguns. If I fished much with rod, I'd make some sinkers.... In heavy use waterfowl areas, yeah, lead shot ban makes sense. Unless I can come up with a cheap 410 - those shot shells will get used. I did score a couple boxes of 7 1/2 (lead) for the 20 a few months ago - those will last me several years. Mostly I shoot grouse with the pellet rifle or a .22 RF(lead ). I get sufficient accuracy and performance from BG cup and core bullets to continue using them almost exclusively. The price and terminal performance differential to the premiums is such that, tho I've tried them, aren't in my repertoire for the most part. Novelty, mostly. A slight increase in copper ppm in streams can really ef up the salmon, and maybe some other species, by the way. One of the reasons the Pebble Mine Project is such a bad idea. Will that be used to next ban mono bullets? I wouldn't be surprised. If mono get to near the same price as c&c, I'll use them even tho I understand copper fouling is somewhat increased, but then I don't shoot enough for it to likely make much difference. Call me cheap. Because I am.
Last edited by las; 01/24/22.
The only true cost of having a dog is its death.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 26,330 Likes: 11
Campfire Ranger
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 26,330 Likes: 11 |
It’s just matter of when lead bullets will be banned. There was a lot of hollering over the ban on steel shot 30+ years ago, but ultimately steel shot works fine for waterfowl and other bird hunting.
The feds manage migratory birds, and have been keeping a database on migratory birds that have been diagnosed with lead toxicity—especially raptors.
Whether prohibiting lead bullets starts with specific federal lands, or with state hunting regulations remains to be seen.
The USFWS proposed a ban on lead bullets on federal wildlife refuges during Trump’s era, but was dropped. I fully expect it to be revived with Biden.
A proposed ban on lead bullets was being proposed in one of the upper midwest states (Wisconsin?) recently, but It appears the legislature didn’t pass it.
I think it is likely Colorado will prohibit lead bullets in the near/mid term future, and won’t be surprised if some of the other western states follow suit.
Any new hunting rifle I acquire is getting a “alternative” mono bullet hunting load, just in case…….
Casey
Not being married to any particular political party sure makes it a lot easier to look at the world more objectively... Having said that, MAGA.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 26,330 Likes: 11
Campfire Ranger
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 26,330 Likes: 11 |
Around here,wind turbines are killing more birds than lead bullets So true…….
Casey
Not being married to any particular political party sure makes it a lot easier to look at the world more objectively... Having said that, MAGA.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 26,330 Likes: 11
Campfire Ranger
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 26,330 Likes: 11 |
When I heard that Sierra bullets bought Barnes bullets, the first thought that came to my mind was that they see the writing on the wall and are diversifying. According to the rumor I heard that is indeed one of the primary reasons they bought Barnes.
Casey
Not being married to any particular political party sure makes it a lot easier to look at the world more objectively... Having said that, MAGA.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 8,722 Likes: 6
Campfire Outfitter
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 8,722 Likes: 6 |
It’s just matter of when lead bullets will be banned. There was a lot of hollering over the ban on steel shot 30+ years ago, but ultimately steel shot works fine for waterfowl and other bird hunting.
The feds manage migratory birds, and have been keeping a database on migratory birds that have been diagnosed with lead toxicity—especially raptors.
Whether prohibiting lead bullets starts with specific federal lands, or with state hunting regulations remains to be seen.
The USFWS proposed a ban on lead bullets on federal wildlife refuges during Trump’s era, but was dropped. I fully expect it to be revived with Biden.
A proposed ban on lead bullets was being proposed in one of the upper midwest states (Wisconsin?) recently, but It appears the legislature didn’t pass it.
I think it is likely Colorado will prohibit lead bullets in the near/mid term future, and won’t be surprised if some of the other western states follow suit.
Any new hunting rifle I acquire is getting a “alternative” mono bullet hunting load, just in case……. Actually Trump overturned the EO by Bam Bam banning all lead bullets for use on federal lands. WASHINGTON— On the last full day of the Obama administration, the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service issued an order phasing out the use of lead ammunition and fishing tackle on national wildlife refuges by 2022.
Swifty
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 1,447 Likes: 1
Campfire Regular
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 1,447 Likes: 1 |
Just look at the 2020 presidential election map . The red states won’t and the blue states will. Here in NYS they are talking about banning gas lawnmowers, ATV’s, chainsaws weedwhackers, banning wood stoves and fireplaces and banning oil or gas furnaces in new construction. These people are bat schitt crazy !
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 29,974 Likes: 11
Campfire Ranger
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 29,974 Likes: 11 |
Oregon's ODF&W was pushing heavily about 5 years back. While still encouraging use today, the push has lightened up a bit.
I've not jumped off that bridge yet and am curious if the technology is such now that lead free functions well in things like 22 LR's, muzzleloaders, and BPCR units that folks really each out with?
Last edited by 1minute; 01/24/22.
1Minute
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 26,330 Likes: 11
Campfire Ranger
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 26,330 Likes: 11 |
Actually Trump overturned the EO by Bam Bam banning all lead bullets for use on federal lands.
WASHINGTON— On the last full day of the Obama administration, the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service issued an order phasing out the use of lead ammunition and fishing tackle on national wildlife refuges by 2022.
Swiftly, You are correct, but it didn’t happen until later in 2017, because USFW republished the proposal on fed wildlife refuges in the Federal Register in early 2017. There is nothing to stop that proposed rule from being proposed again, and I half expect it to happen.
Casey
Not being married to any particular political party sure makes it a lot easier to look at the world more objectively... Having said that, MAGA.
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 17,147 Likes: 2
Campfire Ranger
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 17,147 Likes: 2 |
No talk of it here, as far as I know.
One curious new thing though (well maybe not that curious come to think of it) is the range where we hold our Schuetzen matches now requires us to fill out a "lead report" at the end of the match. It records how many shots of X weight bullets, even .22's, that we put into the backstops. Funny thing, it's not required by any gov't agency but is requested by The Nature Conservancy (and acquiesced to by the Fish&Game club) , ostensibly because of the scenic Monocacy River that flows past the range - 2 or 3 hundred feet away. We're starting to cast about for a new venue because "once you let the camel stick his nose in the tent..." A shame, because if it comes to that, the weenies win.
Who knows what evil lurks in the hearts of a bunch of old guys shooting cast bullets at a very leisurely rate out of 120 year old rifles. Gotta make the world safe, clean, and lead free for the snowflakes, don'tcha know. And how many lead bullets are in that river from the Civil war too!
If something on the internet makes you angry the odds are you're being manipulated
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 17,196
Campfire Ranger
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 17,196 |
Some of these people seem to forget lead come from the earth, otherwise known as the ground.
Randy NRA Patriot Life Benefactor
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2021
Posts: 3,070
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Sep 2021
Posts: 3,070 |
It’s just matter of when lead bullets will be banned. There was a lot of hollering over the ban on steel shot 30+ years ago, but ultimately steel shot works fine for waterfowl and other bird hunting.
The feds manage migratory birds, and have been keeping a database on migratory birds that have been diagnosed with lead toxicity—especially raptors.
Whether prohibiting lead bullets starts with specific federal lands, or with state hunting regulations remains to be seen.
The USFWS proposed a ban on lead bullets on federal wildlife refuges during Trump’s era, but was dropped. I fully expect it to be revived with Biden.
A proposed ban on lead bullets was being proposed in one of the upper midwest states (Wisconsin?) recently, but It appears the legislature didn’t pass it.
I think it is likely Colorado will prohibit lead bullets in the near/mid term future, and won’t be surprised if some of the other western states follow suit.
Any new hunting rifle I acquire is getting a “alternative” mono bullet hunting load, just in case……. Same, I started seeing it is an eventual inevitability several years ago. I develop a non-lead load for every rifle I get and stock up on the bullets once I dial it in, just to be ahead of the curve whenever it drops. Still use lead for my plinking, though.
|
|
|
|
569 members (1beaver_shooter, 1_deuce, 10Glocks, 163bc, 12344mag, 10gaugeman, 64 invisible),
2,160
guests, and
1,091
robots. |
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
Forums81
Topics1,194,564
Posts18,531,718
Members74,039
|
Most Online11,491 Jul 7th, 2023
|
|
|
|