Home Forums Reloading Big Game Rifles A couple of 8x57 questions

Does anyone have a starting load or quickload starting point for the 8x57 with RL-17? It is a 24" Douglas barrel and it is going to be fresh Nosler brass. I'm planning on using the Hornady 195 gr interlock. Maybe.

The second question is: how does the interlock compare with the 196 SPCE, the 200 Accubond, and the 196 Oryx? I've hunted pretty extensively with the 195 Interlock, but I've been having a hard time finding them lately. I also have a bunch of 200 Speer Hot Cors.

200 Speer are great in the 8x57. Deer or elk good to go.

I would think r17 a bit slow and thus a case full sort of loading.

We have been using a starting load for H-4350 to start with RL-17 in any chambering.

It is what they said to do when it first came out and it works.

17 really does well in some,even with normal for caliber bullets,not just heavies.

Cool. I can work with that. BTW, Plains is pretty close. I'm in Midland.

Alliant wasn't really hot on the idea either. But, they only list Re-15 for the 8x57. And pretty anemic loads at that. I have a couple of pounds of RE-17 so I thought I'd try it out since powders are kind of thin on the ground right now. It may work, it may not. As long as I don't blow myself up or stick a bullet in the barrel, I'll learn something from it.

I'd been using RL15 using Norma European data (Norma equivalent to RL15). CIP pressures are higher for the cartridge than SAAMI. My dad had mine for awhile and came to the conclusion that RL17 was a better powder for modern-pressure loads with bullets of around 200 grains. I will see if I can find the loads he gave me. It seems 195 Hornady bullets were getting right at 2700 with great accuracy, which seems about right for 30-06 pressure level in that cartridge.

Well, it's your powder / primers but Reloder 17 is a skosh slow for the 8x57 case capacity. I doubt you'll be able to fit enough in the case to cause pressure issues or see any meaningful velocities. That being said that's why we reload is to experiment so you do you.

I've been loading for my 8x57 for several years now and for 200gr pills I like Varget / BL-C2, and H4895. No doubt one of if not my favorite cartridge to load for. Winchester 748 and CFE223 are also fantastic powders for the 8x57 also.

I don't know what your purpose is for the 8x57 but if your deer hunting, have you considered a lighter bullet weight? I've used 150, 170, and 175s with great accuracy and terminal performance.

Believe it or not RL17 works really well in the cartridge, but I've also found it to be a good powder for the 338-06, which would be fairly similar in regards to bore diameter as compared to case capacity.

if you are looking for velocity and accuracy. from 200 grains and down.... look at the 3031 burn rate powders...

even midrange powders like 4895 are given to keep the pressure low, due to plenty of old 8 x 57s that are in closets and safes all over America, many brought back from WW2 or surplus WW 1 rifles.... 8 x 57s sold in the 50s from surplus stocks from all over the world...

think of the 8 x 57 as a big version of the 223... if it works well in the 223, it will work well in the 8mm Mauser...

I note in the OP that a 24" Douglas bbl is fitted to this rifle. If so, it might have a shorter rifling leade than the generous long leade found in the K98 milsurp bbls.

OP could check to see what MAX cartridge oal is with the Hndy 195 he is working with.

For my K98 milsurps with a Nosler 180BT ~0.15" of bullet shank was in case mouth when bullet was touching lands. I used imr4895 powder, an amount over book, to get 2550 fps, when this bullet was seated where bullet shank engaged entire neck length.

To OP, check your cartridge max oal where bullet is touching lands is my suggestion.

I've looking for a more all around load. My rifle is a Yugo M48 and the original barrel HATED 150s. No matter what I did, I could never get them to shoot. So, I just got used to never thinking about them. After the new barrel I never got back around to trying them out. I use the 170 Hot Cor, 170 SST, 175 Sierra and even the 180 Ballistic Tip on deer and antelope. Great bullets for those size creatures. Truthfully the Ballistic Tip, Hot Cor or the Sierra would probably work for whatever I want to hunt. I personally prefer the 195/200s for hogs, elk, and moose.

I like CFE223 myself for the 170/175/180 stuff. The problem is I'm almost out and every Timmy Tactical is buying it up as soon as it hits the local shelfs and the second it shows to be in stock online. I've been using H4895 for the heavies, I was just looking for a little more velocity. If RE17 works, Cool, if not? Cool. At least I'll be getting to the range and shooting. I have win 748 also, and a bunch of others, I just though that RE17 might be ok.

I seat 0.20" off the lands. When I got the new barrel, I had to rework some of my loads for that reason.

That S&B 196 Truncated bullet was very impressive in wet newspaper. One huge mushroom. It must be a very good cartridge. Mauser and Rigby still chamber it.

As many have said, CFE223 is the berries in the 8x57...can't find it?...no problem....try BLC-2, grain for grain, your chronograph will never know the difference. Seafire said a mouthful...if it works in the .223 it'll work in the 8x57. IMO, 17 is another one of those powders developed to fill a niche that didn't exist, flame on lads.

I'll give that a try. Midway actually has BLC(2) in stock right now.

That is funny as hell about RE17.

The only downside to that bullet is the crappy BC. I've used the S&B load on deer and hogs and it works. I wasn't sure how it would do on something like elk. I mean meat is meat, but bull elk are big, muscular animals. I've used the 195 Interlock on Red Stag and it worked fine, two holes and lots of blood trail. I was actually kind of let down by the stag though, that was the first animal that I shot with the 8x57 that wasn't DRT.

Taking no responsibility whatever for how this load might work, QuickLoad sez:

57 grains of RE-17, COL 3.250", 198 grain Brenneke TIG bullet, 100.9% of case capacity, 55,630 PSI peak, 2779 FPS in a 24" barrel.

53 grains BLC(2), COL 3.250", 198 grain Brenneke TIG bullet, 90.2% of case capacity, 55,909 PSI peak, 2685 FPS in a 24" barrel.

56 grains CFE223, COL 3.250", 198 grain Brenneke TIG bullet, 95.4% of case capacity, 55,981 PSI peak, 2724 FPS in a 24" barrel.

Bear in mind, all this uses the default values in QL. Using the actual values from your own rifle and load may change things quite a bit.

As always, YMMV and the above numbers are for illustration and education, not for actual reloading.

I just loaded some with Norma 203B ie RL-15. I'll try a few load ladders with some of the other powders mentioned. I've been looking for a way to get rid of my 3031. I have a bottle of 748 that needs thinned out a bit.

In my opinion, stick with your RL17 idea. That powder does really well in this cartridge with heavier bullets if you have a modern action that will take 30-06-type pressures.

I tried CFE 223 and was not impressed. RL 15 and 4320 gave me much better results. However, this is in an original m98 1943 barrel.

I love CFE223. My dad has a vet bring back k98 and it doesn't like CFE223 either. He is a big fan of IMR 4064 and RL 15. I like both of those too, I just don't get the velocities that I want. My deer hunting load is a 170 Speer Hot Cor with RL 15 at about 2,600 fps. Not super fast, but deadly effective.

It's certainly worth a shot to try the RL-17. After all you won't know if you don't try.

At some point down the road, if you can find it, try Ramshot BigGame with those 170gr Speers. 54gr netted me 2690fps with that bullet / powder combo and accuracy was 4shots inside ¾inch.

About the same load I use, only Horn. 170 RN. The deer don't complain. I stop dumping powder when I find the accuracy. It will usually shoot 1"- 11/2". Pretty good for the original barrel, but it doesn't do well after cleaning. Needs at least 10-20 rounds thru it until it comes around.

Whenever I find it I will give it a try.

20 years ago I bought a 1903 Turkish Mauser for $45 from BIG5, bent the bolt, drilled and tapped for scope, mounted a big 40x Tasco scope like Varmint Al, and started my first handloading work up

200 gr 3.16" OAL 1960's surplus pull down bulk IMR4895 powder that behaves like canister H322

I worked up in 1 gr increments

42 gr 2541 fps 46kpsi
43 gr 2586 fps 49kpsi
44 gr 2631 fps 52kpsi 2.2" group at 100 meters
45 gr 2675 fps 56kpis 2.25" group at 100 meters
46 gr 2719 fps 59 kpsi 2.25" and top hat primer
47 gr 2762 fps 63kpsi 1.5" group at 100 meters
48 gr 2805 fps 67 kpis 3.3" group at 100 meters slightly sticky bolt
49 gr 2847 fps 71kpsi >4" group at 100 meters and sticky bolt
50 gr 2890 fps 76 kpis >4" group at 100 meters and case base bulge
51 gr 2932 fps 80kpsi 3" group at 100 meters
52 gr 2973 fps 85 kpsi 2.25"group at 100 meters Very sticky bolt

That kicked so hard and wrecked some brass, that I was trying to learn from it.

I reloaded and went back a second day:
46.25 gr >1.9"
46.50 gr 4"
46.75gr 3.4"
47.00 gr 3"
47.25 gr 5"
47.50 gr 2.2"
47.75 gr 2.6"
48.00 gr 4.3"

Clark,

one of my 8 x 57s, is the CZ I got from you....

Don't have quick load, but if you do or some other program, or someone else has quickload,
check to see what the pressure would be with 41 grains of IMR 4198 and a 170 grain Speer SMP...

out of a 29 inch barreled Turk made in like 1945 or so...it chronographed some pretty impressive velocity....

Last deer I shot, I took it with that CZ I got from you.... 170 grain Speer with 30 grains of 4198, shot was under 30 yds as it was chasing a doe in heat.

did a button hook, still chasing the doe, and then just went down dead....that Speer 170 SMP, sure did a job on his insides...

if he hadn't been wired up chasing that doe, he probably would have dropped at the shot...

That 170 gr Speer is a pretty good bullet.

Must be nice having a 29" barrel, because if you miss, you can just reach out and hit them with the end of the barrel.

23" 30 gr = 2000 fps 23kpsi.

My experience is a 270 can flatten a deer and then he gets up and runs away, but a 22 rimfire will drop them in their tracks.... shot placement .... Einstein was always afraid of hidden variables.

I wondered what you would do with that huge jug of 4198.

You were right.

I paired the 195gr Hornady with Reloader 17 in a 100 yard ladder.
195gr Hornady, RL-17, COAL 3.0", WLR, PPU Case.

#1 48.5 2323
#2 48.8 2328
#3 49.1 2321
#4 49.4 2361
#5 49.7 2377
#6 50.0 2395
#7 50.3 2427
#8 50.6 2465
#9 50.9 2472
#10 51.2 2477
#11 51.8 2491

To my eyes it looks like I'm lacking the case capacity to do anything approaching my goal of 2,600 fps with a heavy. Good to know though.

At least you gave it a shot. You never know until you do. Ive seen lots of quick load suggestions giving predictions for great velocities with RL-17 and I was kinda curious, but I think you've not only scratched the itch for you, but me as well.

I haven't been down to just one jug of 4198 in decades.... it is one of my rely on powders...

In a lot of calibers it can equal 30/30 velocities, and I shoot a lot of 30 grain loads of 4198....in a lot of calibers...

30/30 was always good enough for the distances I usually hunt... 200 yds or under.

I get about 2430 fps with 49 grs. of RL15 and the Hornady 195 gr. bullet. It's very accurate in my rifle and plenty enough power for me. Hard to shoot over 100 yds. in my area.

Hornady used to make an 8x57 load that was 2550 fps with their 195 Interlock. That is the benchmark load that I would like to duplicate. One of the things that gets me is that the Germans loaded the cartridge with a 198 at 2575 fps. Why is it so hard to get there now and keep it accurate? Surely, modern powders can get us there. Hell, I've been temped to pull down some S&B 196 SPCE and replace the bullets with 195 Interlocks and be done with it. If S&B can sling that pig SPCE at 2,600 why can't anyone else seem to even get close? I know, I know .318 vs .323 bores. It would be nice if they were kept as separate cartridges at SAAMI. Old commission Gewhar 88 rifles vs 98s and modern actions.

I had some, I think old RWS RN loads, that were right up there as well, but have never chrony'd the S&B. I'd have to look up my notes, but I'm sure when I went above 49 -49.5 grs. of RL 15 accuracy started dropping off. About the same results with 4320.

Hornady shows the 195 @ 2633 fps, as an International load. Not available in the US. WoW. Never knew they made these.

They used to sell that in the US as part #8229. That loading is a hammer on deer, hogs, red stag and everything else that I shot with it. They used to have a 180gr gmx Superformance load for international also. It died when the GMX line died. The new CX line doesn’t have an 8mm offering. I guess the 8x57 is just going to die. Kind of a shame, it kills really well with out a lot of fuss. It isn’t a cool as some super slickery 6.5 ManBun I guess.

I read a good while ago that 4895, don't remember which brand, was the closest burn rate to the WWII powder the Germans used. Don't know if it's true, I only load Unique with cast in mine.

I've used H4895 with 200 grainers. I get the best accuracy around 2475 or so. Which is probably fine. That makes it a solid 300 yard round and plenty of medicine for anything but the big bears.

The 198 grain Portuguese ball ammo had 43-45 grains of flake or ball powder in the several thousand two different lots I had. Full pressure ammo and top notch.
That load weight gives you some idea of burn rate. I pulled some fmj’s and seated 200 Speer bullets for hunting. Great load. Hammered big North country deer.

I have about 7 lbs. of TAC. I may give that a try in better weather.

Heck, that would probably work just fine for elk and anything else you might run across. The only downside to that is the danged corrosive primers in the military brass.

The Portuguese 198 grain machine gun ammo was non corrosive. I should have bought much more of it. 1200 round case. I saved a few for the last 35 years.

That's always nice. Non corrosive and non com block hard primers.

I developed a load about a year ago with the 200gr Nosler Accubond and 47.5gr of Varget. Accuracy for my gun is 4 shots around ¾inch. Some days even better. It gave a velocity of 2533 from a avg of 5 shots.

That is pretty awesome. I have an 8 pounder of Varget that I almost never use. I can never get my loads to match Nosler's data that well.

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