Home Forums Reloading Big Game Rifles 7.65 Arg....anyone?

A friend has an Argentine Mauser and years ago dropped off a Lyman 2 die set for it. He agreed to buy a new turret for my Lee Classic. He has four or five boxes of spent brass from Norma 150grain ammo I found Midway has some Speer .311 Hot Cores in 150 grain but am finding precious little information on this and am relying on input for others. I have some H4350 I will donate (but really need another pound). I have some 44551 as well

I found factory COAL at 2.992 and min max H4350 am told is 45 - 49 grains. So I am thinking of loading to that length and tossing 47 grains at it. I just can't afford much development due to powder....and of course those are my primers as well. .


Anyone familiar with the 7.65 Arg ? I do not know which iteration this rifle is, a1889 or 1909 ? ? ?

I had one years ago when you could buy them at Montgomery Wards for less than $30. I sportorized it to some degree and put a 4x scope on.Wish I had never sold it,but a young fellow needed a deer rifle.

I still have my loading notes.

.311 Sierra Spitzer, 150 gr

42 gr of H335, which 3031 same load will work. Military brass, I formed out of .06 probably.

Notes says about 2300 fps, but no one had a chronograph back then Data probably came from an old Lyman manual era 1965. H335 was a surplus powder I bought for less than 50 cents per pound.

I have had a love affair with the 7.65 since the 1970's. The name, in my opinion, of 7.65 Argentine is a little misleading. It is in fact a Mauser design, 7.65x53 Mauser, the 1889 Belgian contract. Then came the Turkish model 90. I can see where ammo companies would use the 'Argentine' name, as the 1891 Arg rifle was not the strongest rifle, so I suppose that indicated to owners that the so labeled ammo was suitable for the '91 rifles. Then several countries used it in '98 style Mausers (and the 1909 Arg) and pressures could be increased. Go to a Mauser info site and identify your rifle and load accordingly. My favorite is my 1935 Peruvian sporter, which I load to velocities near or exceeding .308 with superb accuracy. Every powder that is suitable for the .308 in a strong action is suitable for the 7.65 Mauser. If your rifle is a keeper, slug the bore, make your reloading decisions on those groove numbers. Mine is .313 in the groove, and I shoot .312's in various weights with great accuracy and safety. Old Speer manuals will be very helpful, you can find them on ebay and gunshows.

I would also add, that in Ludwig Olson's book, Mauser Bolt Rifles, there is a section evaluating firing accuracy tests...the 1904 DWM test showed the best accuracy of all Mauser chamberings, was the 7.65, 174 grain boat tail. You can see why I might compare it to the .308.

Saddlesore- thanks a bunch. Is that 4350 Hodgdon or IMR ? ?

Flintlock- I can only use what is available given the way things are so....311 bullets. He said it shot great with the 150 factory. No idea what bullet was used in that Norma loading though.

Look up Ken Waters' Pet Loads. Very thorough article.

I pulled some Norma factory loads, according to my notes the 150 gr measured an average .312", the 180 gr measured .3123"...they shoot very accurately in my .313 groove military barrel. I pulled some Argentine ball ammo too, San Francisco arsenal...I forgot the date...horrible stuff, undersize bullets, 36 gr of some kind of flake powder, low velocity, strange odor, Berdan primed...I couldn't get rid of it fast enough.
By the way, I am not being snarky here, trying to be helpful, but you should be able to tell a '91 Argentine from a 1909 from 75 yards away...the '91 having a big magazine box hanging well below the woodline in front of the trigger guard.

Hornady .303 is a .312 dia and is perfect when you can get it, 150gr. I like Speer for plinkers but you may find the .311 isn't as accurate.

I resize 30-06 brass pretty easily, just anneal before and it's a breeze. 270 is the same.

Imr3031 40-42 gr with no pressure signs and moderate velocity in my 91 Eng carbine.

That SF stuff is dangerous, I pulled mine down, dumped the powder and brass and will reload the projectiles despite HEAVY crimp lines.

Lyman 44


https://m.imgur.com/a/X4egX9H

For some reason I can't get this to display the picture in thread, even if I use the img tags. The linked picture is the Lyman 44 entry.

It does not say, but I would guess it was IMR since all the others are labeled H

Yes, that's IMR4350. As always start low.

Is the rifle a 91 or 98? I wouldn't hotrod a 91. I have a sporter 91. It shoots well with some Hornady 150 gr and a modest load of 4895. My oldest boy used this setup for his first deer. Its really much like the 300 Savage.

I thought he and I settled which version it was but cannot recall. Kind of why I was thinking a dread middle of the road load ought to be pretty safe. I have never shot it but imagine it would be a fun and sweet shooting thing at the weight it must be carrying.

Can I use IMR 4451 for the 150 grain bullets? Looking for a load and a place to use this powder,

since no one responded, the IMR 4350 min max is 45 -50.0. figuring if I dump 47 or 48 IMR 4451.....should be fine and safe.

Update - for fun, maybe you been there with a bud of your own..

My buddy finally made it to my house with the components we needed. Was a comedy of errors.

He bought the Lee four hole turret die holder from the link I sent him. Damn thing would not spin. Super rough. I ended up filing on the raised bits and sanding it all down and after a little gun butter was applied it smoothed out.

Rookie mistake. I added half a spin to seating die instead of backing off half spin. That and for a few reasons I did not lube the shoulders well enough for FL sizing and result is as you probably guessed- got a stuck case right off the bat. Tried everything then sprayed with penetrating oil and implemented our back up plan of drinking beer, some whiskey, and listened to tunes before watching Tommy Boy ( not near as funny as I remember it - pretty dated I guess - although I felt a little like him at this point)

Next morning early - and feeling it a bit - just about gave up when I got the case to pop loose.
I had him in charge of powder and adjusting the scale to 48 grains for 4451 with me seating bullets and sizing - and we loaded 20 rounds. About to head to the range when I thought maybe I will load a few 6mm rounds of my own ....that is when I saw the scale was set at 40grain not 48. So I had to pull all bullets- but did not have a 30 cal collet for my cam-lock puller. Had him try it out and he nearly pushed the first bullet into the case. I salvaged it and did get them pulled with the 277 puller. We double checked, loaded up, and finally went to shoot.

Gotta admit being a little skittish before he pulled the trigger on that relic rifle. All went fine and it shot close to poa of the 150 factory loads. Happy overall. Open sights weren't so great for accuracy , and the tables at this range sit ungainly low and awkward but I noticed groups shrinking. Sure we could do better given time and range access but.....

Coal for the Arg was listed 2.992 or something but the factory loads were WAY shorter. Like 2.83 or something . I guessed listed COAL was for much heavier bullets. I added maybe 4/100th over factory round length and they cycled without problem. ) PLEASE do not quote * HINT ...Kiss and rock on! LOL

Anyway - all is well that ends well. I still have a bit of 4451 left and some primers I am dedicating for his use. He bought the 150 grain hotcores I found for for a good price. I like the round over all even with that steel butt plate it is easy on you ...for a while... Rifle has some slenderness to it I also liked. Was a $60 pawn shop find for him ages ago. Not sure what fps we were getting but .....guessing 2300 at most.