Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Gunsmithing SMLE 303 Brit

What can be made from one of these actions??
A friend aquired one and was thinking about a 6.5 Epps. After looking at the numbers he decided against it (same a a 6.5 Sweede- which he has several of).
Any info on a 9.3 Brit or 375 Brit??

I�m sure these old rifles have been rechambered in several different calibers over the years but the advisability and cost of doing so is pretty questionable to me.

Allot of #4�s were converted to fire the 7.62mm Nato round and you can find some of them for sale and every once in awhile the conversion kits can also be found.

The .303 round is a pretty damned good one. It has been used all over the world for many years to kill every game animal on the planet and has also been used in target shooting competition.

The Brits used them for their service sniper rifle clear into the 1980�s.

I would just rebarrel to a wildcat based on the .303, so you don't have to change the bolt face.

.25/303 .257
.275/303 7mm

Just make it a 303 Brit. (no joke)

BMT

That would depend a great deal on which model rifle you are talking about. The number 4 is the only SMLE that is considered safe for hotter than factory .303 loads.

45-70?

BMT

Most of the custom sites and millitary firearm sites say that they think the SMLE armorers used 600 pound gorillas to attach their barrels.

Getting the old barrel off and a new one on would be the more costly part, especially if your selected smith has to make a special jig to get the barrel off.

The 303 brit is plenty fun and accurate enough on it's own. Just clean it up, work up some loads and see how well you can shoot the rifle, not how much $$$ you can spend to make the rifle shoot for you.

I�ve seen that, and also .444 Marlin.

Boy, you got that right. I�ve pulled barrels on three SMLE�s and they are certainly put on there tight.

I also totally agree with your comment about leaving it alone as far as the caliber goes. The .303 is a hell of a round and it�s been my experience that whenever you try to change rounds in a military rifle that was designed from the ground up for a specific cartridge (especially one with a detachable magazine) you will run into tons of feeding and cycling problems. Unless you�re doing all the work yourself it�s real easy to have a very expensive rifle when you�re done.

A .25, 6.5mm, .270, or 7mm cartridge created by necking down a .303 (and giving it a slightly sharper shoulder in the process) need not run at higher pressures than the .303 Enfield in order to match the normal factory loads for the .257 Roberts, 6.5x55 Swede, etc.

P.O. Ackley loads for the .25-303:
100-gr SPT 2,750 fps
117-gr SBT 2,800 fps

I have been shooting the .303 since I traded a .455 Webley for a Jungle Carbine when I was 12 years old. I would just load up some 125-gr bullets and play with those, if the 174-gr and 180-gr pills aren't fast enough for you. Personally, I take my WW1 SMLE, WWII SMLE, or No.4 hunting every year.

If you rebarrel a wildcat, you have to cut the same contour, then play with shimming the barrel to tune it, etc....

The one cartridge (apart from the 303)which I KNOW works well in Lee Enfields is the 30/40 Krag. I've been shooting one for 25years. The only advantages are the availability of barrels and bullets. GD

Another GREAT and very underestimated cartridge. Up until not that long ago the record Rocky Mountain Elk was taken with the 30/40.

A friend had a .35-.303 rebore (35 Epps improved) done back in the 1950's.

It was a Jungle Carbine, and I can tell you with the larger bore and same diameter external barrel that sucker was LIGHT and kicked like a sumbitch. He slew a lot of whitetails with it, and more than a few moose and black bears. He loaded pistol bullets in it and shot it very cheaply for thousands of rounds at the range too.

My friend died years ago -- wish I'd been able to take care of his rifles before it was too late -- they might even have been turned in to the cops and destroyed by his non-shooting family.

I would have paid a fair price for this particular rifle. I often thought that it would have been a comforting light rifle to have when I was working in the Canadian Arctic and always looking over my shoulder for polar bears.

If you do a search, the gunshop in Orillia, Ontario, Canada that made the original Epps improved line of cartriges is on the 'net. It is under new ownership, but they still have all of Ellwood Epps old reamers (or at least they did a couple of years ago).

John

IMHO, the biggest problem with these old Enfield rifles is that folks tend to get confused about them. One must remember that the older Enfields, the MK-1 and Mk-4 series are NOT the same rifles as the later P-14's.

It's not hard to be confused about them, because for as long as I'm been messing with guns, I never knew the difference until a couple of years ago.

The P-14 is a very strong action and easily can be converted to a number of high intensity cartridges; i.e: .405 Win, .444 Marlin, etc.

A 6.5/.303 Epps if it indeed does put out 6.5x55 numbers is not a bad place to be. Likewise the 6mm/.303 Epps. But OTOH, the .30-40 or std .303 can come near to .308 Win ballistics. Which is not a bad place to be either.

Any of the above would make a great "Fun Gun" but hardly a serious hunting tool. What I mean is: I would not want to replace a modern .308 or .30-06 rifle with any Mk-1 or Mk-4 Enfield. But the thought of using one of the "old-timers" to induce myself to the range and log trigger time; makes a lot of sense. Just my $.02 worth, tho' YMMV...

Grasshopper

P.S: You will never make a magnum out of the older Enfield Mk series; (that is, if one does indeed value one's life.)

I think you may be subject to a portion of that confusion my friend.

The SMLE Mk4�s were manufactured from 1941 through the 1960�s. The P14�s were manufactured from 1915 through 1917.

I like the 303, Krieger, Shilen & Pacnor list barrels. You need to get a custom reamer made to the factory brass/ammo. My standard reamer runs .455" and most brass .450" just above the rim, check this on Wildcat reamers.

See? I told you it was confusing. At least I didn't exempt myself from that catagory.

I once owned an Enfield Mk something or other that had been converted to .218 Bee. Not the most classy conversion I ever saw, either. It was modified for a detachable clip magazine. I never had one.

There are those who consider the Lee Enfields to be homely, clunky, rifles with no redeeming virtues and they do have some shortcomings. However, they are also rugged and reliable. The actions tend to be a bit stretchy (especially the #1 models)but they still work.
One major shortcoming (from a sporting rifle standpoint)is that Lee Enfields tend to put bullets of different velocities and weights to widely divergent points of impact. With my 30/40, there is a 4 inch difference in the point of impact of 150 grain bullets in comparison to 180's (the heavier bullets hit higher). On the other hand, as long as I stick to one load, the rifle is very accurate with moa accuracy being quite common.
As I said I've used this rifle as a 30/40 for 25 years and as a 303 for 19 years before that. This rifle has taken more game than all my others combined. If presented with a once in a lifetime hunting opportunity, I would be seriously tempted to take this old rifle! GD

greydog,

I would think that the �shortcoming� you have observed is more barrel and ammo related than it is action related.

I love Lee Enfields, and don�t think they are �ugly� at all. A bit different, YES, but ugly...no way.

Have you ever seen that film of the British soldier rapid firing a Lee-Enfield? Granted, allot of the speed is coming from the skill of the shooter, but the rounds are coming out almost as fast as a semi-auto.

from wikipedia

Lee Enfield Mk1 thru Mk4

The Lee-Enfield was, in various marks and models, the British Army's standard bolt-action, magazine-fed, repeating rifle for over 60 years from (officially) 1895[1] until 1957[2], although it remained in British service well into the early 1960s and is still found in service in the armed forces of some Commonwealth nations[3]. In its many versions, it was the standard army service rifle for the first half of the 20th century, and was adopted by Britain's colonies and Commonwealth allies, including India, Australia, New Zealand, and Canada.
The Lee-Enfield was chambered for the .303 British cartridge, and featured a ten-round box magazine which was loaded manually from the top, either one round at a time, or by means of five-round chargers. The Lee-Enfield superseded the earlier Martini-Henry, Martini-Enfield, and Lee-Metford rifles, and although officially replaced in the UK with the L1A1 SLR in 1957, it continues to see official service in a number of British Commonwealth nations to the present day- notably with the Indian Police- and is the longest-serving military bolt-action rifle still in official service.[4]
Total production of all Lee-Enfields is estimated at over 17 million rifles,[5] making it one of the most numerous military bolt-action rifles ever produced- second only to the Russian Mosin-Nagant M91/30, which was itself a contemporary design.

Tim

My Enfields like the Remington 180-gr CoreLokt RN bullets and the Sellier & Bellot 174-gr FMJ. Shoot both to the same spot.
My No.4 Mk II sights track right on the money with these factory loads.

I�m a huge Enfield fan, but going to an .303 Brit based wildcat may prove to be a very expensive option. Reamers are very hard to find on this side of he Atlantic and reloading dies, if available are very pricey. The .45-70/.444 Marlin conversions are common and if you ask me, make for one heck of a good rifle. But then again, I find absolutely nothing wrong with the .303.

To me, a .303-based wildcat only makes sense if you are a died-in-the-wool Brit, building a nice custom hunting rifle. When I see one of these .27-303s or .275-303s in a rifle built by Westley Richards, it makes sense.

As Gibson pointed out, it makes no economic sense to put that kind of effort and money into a $150.00 surplus military SMLE. It's kind of like putting a Porsche 911 engine and transaction into a VW Squareback just because it all bolts up.

ive got a Savage made No. 4 thats semi sporterized(stock cut down more or less nicely and refinished, "recoil pad" put pn but its very hard rubber). i love the gun. it puts most 180ish grain loads into the same area which is all i care about since its iron sights.....also the rear sight is fixed and the front sight doesnt move easily either so witht he front sight protectors on it shouldnt ever move.....so what ive got is a rifle that POI doesnt change if i stick with 180's....sights cant move....when im headed out the door quick and cant decide which gun to grab when im just going out to drive the hills i usually grab it cause i know where the bullets going to go for as far as i care to use it(120ish yards)...dont have to sit and think if i played musical scopes or all that. that and ive only got $75 into it so far so it makes the perfect truck gun

The original military Lee Enfield is indeed an ugly if not adorable sumbitch. But the best ever action and cartridge and makes one fine looking and handling hunting rifle. (I'm not being biased am I)? Barrels are available 'off the shelf' from Tru-Flite and a few other manufactures. But for some reason, Tru-Flite make theirs in 1 in 12 twist. Musgrave of South Africa make a 6mm-303 barrel (Called the 6mm Musgrave). Mine has a Musgrave walnut stock. I have seen 270-303 and 25-303 barrels on sale. (I was looking for a 6.5-303 barrel). No bolt face changes need to be made for any re-chambering although the ejector system is designed for a rimmed cartridge. The Brits had a 45 ACP chambering which seemed to work just fine so as long as the case head is big enough, it should eject OK. The 308 cartridge works just fine too. Those actions are not weak. Just very flexible and a bad one with a hot load can let the bolt unhook itself from the receiver ring and flip out backwards into the shooters face. But you don't hear of that 'too' often. (Never, in fact - but I was told by a WWII armourer that it could happen).
Personally, I would re-barrel if the barrel were not in mint condition. The Lee Enfield is just too good an action to be wasted on a bad barrel.

P.S. The Lee Enfield can be re-chambered to the 7.62x74R Russian for 308 performance.

Just bear in mind that when selecting a new chambering, the bolt face thrust must not be greater than the MkVII cartridge would produce. (ie. the larger the case base diameter the lower must be the chamber pressure. The 45-70 would be just fine).

303Guy

I loved your mention of the Lee-Enfield ejector �system.� I have never heard of a screw being referred to as a �system� before.

I built a rifle for a friend using a new SMLE barrel (on a SMLE action) and a fibreglass stock (made by me). It shot all kinds of loadings to the same POI. (174gr to 180gr). It was light and comfortable to shoot, with its full-bodied butt-piece.

303Guy

Yeah, I know. But you have to admire the simplicity and functionality of it.

303Guy

I do!

My comment was only meant as a joke, and to point out exactly what you said...Simplicity at it�s finest.

I got the joke all right RickB - I had a good chuckle! I find the L.E. a very interesting action because of its clever simplicity and yet smooth and easy to operate qualities. Mine is a 1903 LMLE action. I replaced the original single stage trigger. It has this huge safety arrangement on the back of the bolt. Unfortunately, the trigger sear has a dent worn in it, making the trigger less than crisp. But it is a very nice rifle to shoot with and pretty accurate too. It does have a new No.4 barrel fitted with a tighter than normal chamber - achieved by skimming the two faces to get the thread start in the right place. Mine headspaces on the case shoulder from unfired. I have a long stock on it with a full, heavy fore-end, in oiled African walnut and a high scope. It doesn't 'kick' - it 'pushes'.

303Guy

heres mine....a No. 4 Mk 1* keep thinking i need to get a chunk of wood and make a fore end tip. didnt take a a pic of the end of the barrel but its got the military sight protectors on it. oh and its got a 7 shot mag instead of a 10.....should pick up a 10 rounder

That's a nice looking rifle, Rattler. The for-end seems just fine fron the pictures. Nicely ended at the barrel/sling band. I wouldn't mind having a No.4 action for my next rifle - which could be a 6.5-303.

303Guy

well lets just say it doesnt look bad from the side but looking at it dead on its hideous ill get a pic tonight. its a hell of a rifle for the $75 ive got into it. that and the blueing on the metal looks MUCH better than most my newly manufactured rifles.......

Thanks for all the input. The original barrel is damaged (hole drilled through it)so it will have to be rebarreled anyway. 95% of the work will be done by the owner or by 2 local 'smiths that work on a "barter" system. The only outlay of $$$ will be for a reamer and barrel. The owner is not a fan of the 303 and will probably go with a bigger bore, rather than a smaller one.
I'll keep ya posted.

The Lee Enfield rifle and the 303 cartridge have probably killed more moose and bears in Canada than the 30-06 or any other round for that matter.That rifle is very rugged

Hey Guys, I just went on a two-day deer hunt with my Lee Enfield. (Didn't get any deer but that's beside the point). The Lee Enfield action is just great in the field and doesn't even look bad! I find the carrying with a round in the chamber and bolt open to be an ideal safe yet quick and quiet carry mode. (No way the bolt can accidentally cock and close). The bolt does not slide back by itself, loosing cartridges, and cocking an closing is quieter than releasing the safety catch (which is very reliable on the MkI).

P.S. Mine is a 1902 - not a 1903. As if anyone cares .

303Guy

Apart from the typo there - the number 4 is not an SMLE - why would one want a hotter than 303 factory load? Just a rhetorical question . I find the 303 Brit to be plenty powerful. (Apparently, so did/do countless hunters the world over)!

303Guy

I've thought about this one. I'm not so sure. If that action would clean up good .... Mind you, I do prefer the pre-clip charger Lee Enfield (or the No.4). Mine still has a dust cover. My scope mount straddles the cover.

303Guy

Lee24, If I may I ask. When you say 7mm, which one is that? I have this urge to build a new rifle on a Lee Enfield action. I have a leaning toward 6.5 but cannot find any 6.5/303 references. The 6.5 Epps has bean mentioned here (I had never heard of it before) but I want a standard 303 case form. I have a strong liking for the 7x57. I think it is a well balanced round that looks good and fits the 303 mag. And the original loadings have acceptable pressures but too easy to go modern pressures, perhaps? There is nothing wrong with the 303 round but I just don't like recoil anymore. (And I want a lighter rifle - my arms hurt these days). I want to watch my bullet strike.

Regards
303Guy

You can rebarrel to a 7X57R and it will function perfectly, AND factory loads are fine in the Lee-Enfields.

I make brass out of 444 Marlin cases and never miss a beat.

Ted

Thanks for that Yukoner, I had forgotten about the 7x57R. I don't recall ever seeing them on the shelves.

303Guy

That's why I reload for it. Best part of all is you can use standard dies to form the brass.

I take the 444 brass down to 35 first using 358 Win dies, then to 30 using 308 and finally full length in my 7X57 and I'm in business. Imperial sizing die wax makes this go easy.

Use the 444 brass to make 8X57R for my friend's drilling, as well. That is something else you could consider, the 8X57R, but it is hardly worth the expense when the 303 is so close to it.

Ted

Yukoner, I never knew one could do that, I mean use a series of standard dies to create a cartridge. Great idea! Does that mean the 7x57R has the same case dimensions as the 7x57 or are you slightly wildcatting? I checked on the 'net and found that the 7x57R is different than the 7x57 - according to that source! The concept you describe is very appealing to me. Any Idea what would make 6.5x57 cases? I would be very happy if I could make 6.5-303 cases. I would lathe turn a chamber for that one. Mind you, I could lathe turn a sizer die as well! There's a thought.

I use the standard 7X57 and 8X57 die sets for both the 7X57R and 8X57R.

Once you have the cases formed, the trick is to size the brass just enough so the bolt just closes easily on the case. Not quite a crush fit.

Never had a problem doing it this way.

Ted

I just found these in my gun room. New manuafacture, Canadian Made, 303 British. Almost brings a tear to my eye!

"What can be made from one of these actions?"

I have a #4 that I've been shooting for 15 years that has taught me that I like the 303 cartridge better than the #4 rifle. Instead of a new cartridge for this action, I thought it would be neat if Ruger made a #1 in 303 British.

That would be classic!

You know Youper, that cartridge really is 'beautiful'. I have seen some reworked #4's and they really can be made to look good. I just like the smoothness and simplicity of the action and importanty, the operation. As clumsy as that cocking on closing is, it makes for very safe field carry with a cartridge chambered and the bolt open. I have thought as far as fitting a detent or such to stop the bolt from sliding back on its own (and dropping the cartridge). My next rifle is going to be built on a mk1 or a #4. An advantage of making 7x57R as I see it is that the newly formed case is already firm in the chamber.

Rattler,
I think you ought to keep the 7 rounder, looks fine and imagine easier to carry to boot.

never said i was getting rid of it.....just said i would like to pick up a 10

I've been toying with the idea of a 405. They fit and feed through the magazine and action.

a 405 would be slick.....is the rim the same as the 303.....if not what would it take to change it?

The rims appear identical but if not they are so close it doesn't make any difference. the barrel on mine is so thin I doubt it could be rebored so would need a new barrel. Otherwise should need little, if any, additional work.

dang it......i dont need anymore ideas for projects

303 rim -- .540
405 rim -- .543

both factory 303 military ammo and Hornady 405 ammo fit and feed well through my old SMLE. which has replaced the Rigby in my outhouse.

A lightweight, slick operating bolt rifle in 405 should be just the ticket for deep cover whitetail, elk, moose or big bears.

I would suggest the best rifle to use as a donor for the action wuld be the postwar No. 4 Mark 2 because the trigger hangs from the action instead of being pinned in the stock like the earlier guns. Problem is that there were not too many made, they were not in service long enough to get beat up, and the military collectors snaffle them so prices are now pretty stiff.

Phil........does it feed well with a full mag given the slant of the box for the tapered 303 rounds? was thinking last night that the Gibbs Rifle company had issues when trying to release their 45-70 chambered Summit Carbine a few years back with the feeding of the rounds out of the magazine reliably......took them longer than expected to work out th e problem though they did get it right im told..does the skinnier 405 round look like it simplifies this problem?

303 Guy:
6.5 Epps info is in " The Handloaders Manual of Cartridge Conversions" by John J. Donnelly. Page 788
Also in P.O. Ackley's book Vol II page 157
If you don't have these books send me a PM w/ a fax # and I will try to get them to ya this weekend.

The 405 looks like fun!!

Second that!

I'll come in third on that suggestion.

GTC

Thanks for that Cowboybart. Let me just pop in to our local library before you make the expense of an international fax call.

My interest in the 6.5 is lower recoil and still retaining my favourite case and action. I finally took it out for a hunt after many years and have rediscovered its merits just from a carrying safety standpoint. In reality, there is nothing wrong with my 303's recoil. It is very comfortable to shoot. I just don't load to max.

As a side comment, someone on this forum mentioned a fella using 303 Savage ammo in his 303 Brit! As shocking as this may sound initially, it probably would work just fine. The case headspaces on the rim and the bullet locates in the chamber throat. I'm just not sure why someone would want to do that!???

However, the base diameter of the 303 Savage is somewhat smaller than the 303 British..................

Ted

Maybe this has been said here, didn't read the entire thread, but I think, officially, only the No. 1 rifles were known as SMLEs. I hate to pick nits, but there it is.

The No 4s were very much different, had a heavier barrel, and a stronger action. And a different trigger mechanism in the later models. There were more diferences in a SMLE and a No. 4 than in a 03 Springfield and a 03A3, I believe.

The Pattern 14 was known as the No 3. rifle when GB changed their naming pattern, which wasn't until after 1939 or so, when the No. 4 was introduced. (I think.)

Gibbs converts a lot of Enfields to 45-70. But the 303 is a great round, just expensive on the surplus market.

If you ever pull the bullet from a 303, you'll find it's filled with cordite, stringy powder that looks like small pencil lead and was put into the case before the case was necked. Also, it has a fiber wad between powder and bullet. Cordite, I have read, burns really hot with a low pressure, and hence few cherry original .303 rifles are found. Most will have erosion in the chamber area.

Yup, I know ......looks like a lashup, ...the proofing fixture certainly was.

Old Uberti Barrel ( tapered octagon ) breech sleeved for a shoulder, and fitted to a MK4.....

A .45-90 smokeless / jacketed bullet ( Norma Brass) rig, very light and handy.

We really didn't think it would go Shrapnelistic,....but proofing is proofing......No?

I was offered the opportunity to "try" this 7 1/2 lb little monster, and politely declined......

Very effective little "Thumper", .....I'm not all that recoil shy, .....but like my 90s in a 10 lb + kinda' platform.





GTC

[quote=Yukoner.....However, the base diameter of the 303 Savage is somewhat smaller than the 303 British..................

Ted [/quote]

Yeah ... I know. It's amazing that the case does not split at the base!!! (But why would anybody do that in the first place)!

Sounds right.

So that's how they got it in! I always wondered.

Hang on there now ..... Are you saying someone will actually fire that thing from the shoulder? With full loads?

HOLY $#!% !

Mind you, such a heavy slug with a low pressure cartridge would give a strong push more than a sharp kick, so maybe it is managable. I would want to see someone else fire it first to pluck up enough courage. It looks great 'though. Actually, it looks really great!

The Pattern 14 was produced in the US for Great Britain in World War I, until the US entered the war and stopped shipments of .303s, because we (Remington) started making .30-06s as the P-17.

Savage was making No.1 MkIII Enfields, too, in violation of our neutrality. It was the secret shipments of munitions from Savage and Remington on passenger ships which led Germany to sink the Lusitania, after running a full-page ad in the New York papers warning passengers that Undersecretary of the Navy Franklin Roosevelt was conspiring with his counterpart in the Admiralty Office, Winston Churchill, to ship munitions to England.

The contracts(3) had actualy had finished,Winchester,Remington and a Remington subsidiary ERA (Eddystone).The British were making enough SMLEs by then.They think someone at Remington suggested the conversion of the P-14.Hatcher oversaw it. The 30-06 works better in it anyway.

Savage also made #4s during WWII

Yes, I have one of each, Savages from both WW1 and WWII.

After the Longbranchs,the Savage #4 is very highly considered by the 303 crowd.

That thing kicks like a Missouri Mule, ....with it's light loads.

I'm thinking it's a bit light for caliber.

GTC

ive got a No. 4 Mk1* made by Savage.........

The Brits had been so disarmed after WWI during the scares of communist insurgency, that when WWII broke out, they were asking American civilians to ship rifles and handguns to them for the Home Guard, sort of like our State Guard units, which were used to guard factories and patrol the coasts (as were our State Militias ).

[quote=crossfireoops.......
That thing kicks like a Missouri Mule, ....with it's light loads.

I'm thinking it's a bit light for caliber.

GTC [/quote]

It still looks pretty appealing!
One could 'weight' the butt-stock quite a bit? Wouldn't harm the balance I should think?

Looking for a Peep sight for my early 1905 MK 1 BSA SMLE Sporter.

In my mind the only cartridges on the action worth a hoot are the .303 Brit, the .375 2-1/2" NE and the .375 JDJ or Ken Waters Express version.

Looking at an old Parker Hale catalog from the 1920s/30s, I see BSA sporters on SMLE actions offered in .303, .375 (I suppose the 2 3/4") and of all things 8x50R Austrian. Wonder who bought those.

kk alaska, it would be real easy to fit a peep sight to your rifle. Are you wanting a rear mounted type? It would have to be made up of course. If you know of anyone near you who has, or works in, a machine shop - you could give him a design and he could make it for you.

kk alaska

Look at the Williams catalog, for a peep sight that mounts where your open sight is now. The aperture is larger than one close to your eye. It works well, more accurate than you might think, because the aperture is really sharp.

Winchester made a .22 LR in this format during the 1930s, the Model 67.

Williams sells this setup for a replacement sight for the AK-47 and SKS.

I have one on order that will fit in the Marbles rear sight.
Wish I had my 30 YO vision back and irons would be fine.
Still shoot recv. Tang sights well. Will let you know how it works for me. Thanks KK

I fitted a 'ring' sight to my air gun once - worked real well. Lacking '30 YO' vision might make that option less effective - I don't know. (I can still see iron sights just fine - it's up close I need glasses for! ) I would have thought the 'U' rear sight of the SMLE to be 'not too bad' for our type of eyes - but then, I am just lucky!

Put an apature in my Marbles rear sight , sighted it in and seemed to be accurate. much easier to get acrisp sight picture.
The forearm is not bedded is it agood idea to bed the forearm full length?

Since you guys are talking SMLEs, thought I would post a pic of my $100.00 yard sale find. I was surprised of the accuracy of this thing, despite the heavy trigger pull. Its my truck gun, and I kinda like it.

I am told that the SMLE should have the fore-end 'properly packed with cork' for really good accuracy. This by a WWII armourer.

kenster99, that's a beauty! (It looks like a No.4)?

The number 1 seems to work significantly better if the forarm is bedded of has a pressure point. The No 4 works OK free floated though it is somewhat more sensitive to velocity/barrel time than if the barrel is bedded. GD

Today, you can use a strip of Ensolite closed-cell foam.

Ted

My own feeling about the Lee Enfield is that every serious rifle shooter should own and shoot one of them - the WWI SMLE or the WWII No. 4 - for a year or two just for the experience and knowledge. Ditto a Mauser 98 or Swede, Krag, and 1903 Springfield. Full military or sporter. Maybe even a 7.62 Russian, but if so get one of the Finnish rebuilds.

The No1 MkIII forend wood has the barrel relieved the full way, except of a rib which provides stability and serves as a pressure point. The No.4 is similar. A good shooting rifle can be tuned to even smaller groups by adjusting this bedding.

I have an old article on this from The American Rifleman, from the 1960s. I may try to type up a synopsis of the steps.

I have aquired a No.4 Savage. I am leaning toward the 257 Roberts but want to use the x57R. I had forgotten you mentioned the 444 Marlin case. May I ask whether you have tried firing the rimless case in your rifle? My idea is to chamber my rifle to handle either. (I don't expect the ejection 'system' to work too well but since I don't want to throw my cases away that would be fine). The 257 Roberts appeals because it is a 'long range' cartridge and works fine as a normal range deer and pig cartridge AND factory loads are of acceptable pressure for the No.4 (45,000 CUP). Would I have to neck turn if I use 444 brass? (I do prefer a neck wall thickness that only just fits the chamber).

I also thought of hydraulically expanding 303Brit cases to 257. It would look like a case fired in an oversized chamber (i.e. a bit funny).

I just had another look at kenster99's No.4 - what a beauty! That stock is going to get copied.

There are lots of cartridges in 6mm, .257, .270, and 7mm based off the .303 British round.

Just rebarrel and get the chamber reamers for one of those, so you don't re-invent the wheel.

Lee24, I would do that ordinarily but what I want is longer range capability and to do that on a No.4 requires a larger case. Chambering a barrel for the 257 Roberts is likely to be simpler than one of the 303 based calibers, simply due to availablity of reamers. Otherwise I would consider the 257 Epps. But I would still have to fireform the cases. 25-303 reamers and/barrels are probably available but as lice as that cartridge may be, it doesn't quite have the range. Hence my interest in the Roberts. Having said that, I have not ruled out the 6mm Musgrave (243-303). It's just that the 6mm doesn't appeal too much on the red deer or wild boar front.

Speeking of 're-inventing the wheel', I am going to look into simply necking down the 444 Marlin to 257 or even 6.5mm.

Look to Ackley. For example, the 25 Ackley Krag is approximately the 257 Roberts, and the 25 Ackley Krag Improved is approximately the 257 AI. Dies are available from RCBS at a reasonable price and the reamer can be had from PTG. I am building a 25 AKI now. Ackley also made a 25 Krag Short that was a hot little cartridge.

Also, the Dutch Steyr 1900 took 6.5X53R ammo. While it can still be found, it is made from either 303 or 30/40 brass necked down. The shoulder is also slightly bumped back if Krag brass is used. Dies can be had for this cartridge, but simply necking in 30, 28 and 26 dies consecutively and then fire forming will produce the brass. I have not ordered my 25 AKI dies yet and have formed brass for it in the same manner.