Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire Ukraine might just win

I have spent a couple days trying to make sense of the logistic problems Russia has in Ukraine. I first world army should never be seeing any of that nonsense, and I was looking for reasons why.

What it looks like to me is that the money that has gone into so many people's pockets in Russia has come from a lot of places in the military, and in a lot of different ways. What is left now is a paper tiger that can only just barely get out of it's own way. All of those missiles/rockets/bombs that are littering Ukraine are not an accident. All of the rubber tire vehicles that get stuck, break down and run out of fuel are not an accident. The absence of CAS to cover ground forces is not an accident. The absence of hundreds/thousands of precision guided cruise missiles is not an accident. The absence of proficient first line ground troops is not an accident. This was done systematically by skimming at many levels and the forces are now quite literally hollowed out by the politicians and oligarchs. I would bet a lot of money at this point that even if Putin decides to fall back and concentrate on Donbas/Luhansk/Crimea, that moving all that equipment back to Russia's border will cost Russia even more than it cost them to get it into place spread across Ukraine, and it will be more costly in Russian lives lost in the process.

That equipment has all been stressed beyond it's maintenance requirements getting into position to be used. They have taken a [bleep] load of piss and vinegar out of the troops. They have lost a sizeable percentage of the equipment to combat, breakdown, fuel exhaustion and abandonment. The retreat to Donbas/Luhansk/Crimea will be much harder to accomplish of and by itself. The huge arms flow into Ukraine will just amplify the losses in the pull back.

I think there is an excellent chance that just getting the hell out of Ukraine without making the situation much worse might well tilt things far enough that the calculus of fighting a better armed more determined Ukraine for the foreseeable future makes Russia abandon any hope of defending Eastern Ukraine, much less annexing and keeping it.

Ukraine on the other hand will be able to make an unchallengeable argument to NATO that they have a military well and truly capable of adding hugely to NATOs capability, and deserving of entry into NATO.

Putin will very shortly be history.

Spit and vomit and jizm all over while they say Russia bad Ukraine good

Putin rode a tiger shirtless through the taiga.

I have spent a couple days trying to make sense of the logistic problems Russia has in Ukraine. I first world army should never be seeing any of that nonsense, and I was looking for reasons why.

What it looks like to me is that the money that has gone into so many people's pockets in Russia has come from a lot of places in the military, and in a lot of different ways. What is left now is a paper tiger that can only just barely get out of it's own way. All of those missiles/rockets/bombs that are littering Ukraine are not an accident. All of the rubber tire vehicles that get stuck, break down and run out of fuel are not an accident. The absence of CAS to cover ground forces is not an accident. The absence of hundreds/thousands of precision guided cruise missiles is not an accident. The absence of proficient first line ground troops is not an accident. This was done systematically by skimming at many levels and the forces are now quite literally hollowed out by the politicians and oligarchs. I would bet a lot of money at this point that even if Putin decides to fall back and concentrate on Donbas/Luhansk/Crimea, that moving all that equipment back to Russia's border will cost Russia even more than it cost them to get it into place spread across Ukraine, and it will be more costly in Russian lives lost in the process.

That equipment has all been stressed beyond it's maintenance requirements getting into position to be used. They have taken a [bleep] load of piss and vinegar out of the troops. They have lost a sizeable percentage of the equipment to combat, breakdown, fuel exhaustion and abandonment. The retreat to Donbas/Luhansk/Crimea will be much harder to accomplish of and by itself. The huge arms flow into Ukraine will just amplify the losses in the pull back.

I think there is an excellent chance that just getting the hell out of Ukraine without making the situation much worse might well tilt things far enough that the calculus of fighting a better armed more determined Ukraine for the foreseeable future makes Russia abandon any hope of defending Eastern Ukraine, much less annexing and keeping it.

Ukraine on the other hand will be able to make an unchallengeable argument to NATO that they have a military well and truly capable of adding hugely to NATOs capability, and deserving of entry into NATO.

Putin will very shortly be history.

I have spent a couple days trying to make sense of the logistic problems Russia has in Ukraine. I first world army should never be seeing any of that nonsense, and I was looking for reasons why.

What it looks like to me is that the money that has gone into so many people's pockets in Russia has come from a lot of places in the military, and in a lot of different ways. What is left now is a paper tiger that can only just barely get out of it's own way. All of those missiles/rockets/bombs that are littering Ukraine are not an accident. All of the rubber tire vehicles that get stuck, break down and run out of fuel are not an accident. The absence of CAS to cover ground forces is not an accident. The absence of hundreds/thousands of precision guided cruise missiles is not an accident. The absence of proficient first line ground troops is not an accident. This was done systematically by skimming at many levels and the forces are now quite literally hollowed out by the politicians and oligarchs. I would bet a lot of money at this point that even if Putin decides to fall back and concentrate on Donbas/Luhansk/Crimea, that moving all that equipment back to Russia's border will cost Russia even more than it cost them to get it into place spread across Ukraine, and it will be more costly in Russian lives lost in the process.

That equipment has all been stressed beyond it's maintenance requirements getting into position to be used. They have taken a [bleep] load of piss and vinegar out of the troops. They have lost a sizeable percentage of the equipment to combat, breakdown, fuel exhaustion and abandonment. The retreat to Donbas/Luhansk/Crimea will be much harder to accomplish of and by itself. The huge arms flow into Ukraine will just amplify the losses in the pull back.

I think there is an excellent chance that just getting the hell out of Ukraine without making the situation much worse might well tilt things far enough that the calculus of fighting a better armed more determined Ukraine for the foreseeable future makes Russia abandon any hope of defending Eastern Ukraine, much less annexing and keeping it.

Ukraine on the other hand will be able to make an unchallengeable argument to NATO that they have a military well and truly capable of adding hugely to NATOs capability, and deserving of entry into NATO.

Putin will very shortly be history.

You never want to be on the same side of an issue as Miles58 & JellO...... never

You never want to be on the same side of an issue as Miles58 & JellO...... never

You never want to be on the same side of an issue as Miles58 & JellO...... never

People believe this so strongly that they're willing to ignore the fact that Putin has stated his intention to install a puppet government over Ukraine and he's literally shut down his country's internet so people only see what he lets them see.

When in history have the people trying to stop the flow of information been the "good" guys?