Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunting Rifles Just Picked Up My .358 NM!

4350 was always my favorite powder for the big Norma. I burned up a lot of IMR, but H would be my choice nowdays.
Good luck with the rifle, I'm sure you'll love it, especially if you end up taking it moose hunting.

Just read thru the thread. The rifle turned out very nicely. Hope it shoots as good as it looks. I think you'll be happier with the 22" barrel too once load development nears the upper end if you decide to go that far.

I dug out my old springer postal scale & my rifle with 1.5-5x, a 1" leather sling, & 3 rounds of 250s weighs in just a hair under 9#s. With my rifle, there is a point where the recoil/muzzle jump becomes suddenly more noticeable with the 250s. A quick glance thru my notes didn't turn up the info, but memory says right around 2800fps or a bit above is the spot. When testing from a rest I've been resting my left hand on the barrel just in front of the rear sight, no downward push just sitting there, to keep the muzzle from jumping too much. PP2000MR is the speed champ with 250s so far, with best groups a bit under 3000fps. Started a series with N550 for schiidts & giggles as a new to me powder for comparison. It looks promising so far to at least equal H4350.

Great info 358.

Care to share any of your load data on the PP2000MR? It is one on my list and I have a decent supply of it.

The brass... PPU 300Winmag reformed compares within 15-20fps with otherwise same/same loads on same day to my lots of Norma factory brass from both loaded ammo & bulk brass. My fired Norma brass holds 92.4gr H20 full to the top. Haven't measured the PPU.

All speeds instrumental. Oehler 35 center screen @ 10ft., so add what... 15-20fps for MV? Temps were between 50-70*F

With PPU 300WinMag reformed, Fed 215s. I got some 200FTX in a deal so used them to burn up for initial 2 shot groups for speed/pressure testing. OAL was 3.250". I forget the exact rationalization used for the start charge, but it turned out to be way low with my rifle & components. Speeds were very erratic with lower charges. Some ES were as low as 2fps while some were as high as 129fps. Dont remember if I did the muzzle up thing to move powder closer to primer. This settled down above c.72gr. The 1/2 gr. increments were omitted for brevity.

66gr.=2682fps
67=2730
68=2640
69=2734
70=2713
71=2902
72=2859
73=2896
74=2931
75=2981
76=3006
77=3029
78=3061
79=3086
80=momentary lapse of something?
81=3098
82=3136
83=3154
84=3151
85=3174
85.5=3184- limit of powder compression. Still no pressure warnings.

Reshot the upper charges for speed & groups with Hornady 200 Sp.Pt. @3.300"

79=2966
79.5=3019
80=3036
80.5=3038
81=3070
to 85 not chronographed for some reason. Around 84 seems to be the happy spot for group size.

Same PPU brass & Fed 215s with Sierra 225s@ 3.410"

82=3036
83=3071
84=3103-good groups again at 84gr.
84.5=3109
85=3135- slight ejector mark on 1 case, called it quits here.

Started a series with 225 Accubonds @3.512"
82=3106-good speed poor group.
83=3147-poor group-ejector mark & clickers (2ndary extraction)
Pulled the rest apart

Same PPU brass, Fed 215s, & Speer 250 Sptz. @ 3.485".

79=2870-4 shot groups c.3/4 to 1" @100yds.
80=2888- ditto
81=2914- ditto
82=2947-groups opened above this with slightly more "feel" in bolt lift- no ejector mark
83=2976-still no marks, but definite bolt lift

Excellent information. Thanks!

Those 225 Sierras at 3100 would be something to see on deer I would think.

I wonder how the PP Varmint might do on the lighter bullets.

If the 225 Sierra performance reports are true, a deer inside of 400 yds. is in deep schidt. Guessing about 3.5" high @100 will still be climbing @200, zeroed around 300, & 10 to 11" low at 400 while still packing 2400+#s pf energy.

The lightest bullets I've messed with was 200. No... Wait... I tried some 150 PSP corelokts with 3031, but they weren't up to groundhog accuracy much beyond 150-200 yds. Almost bought some of those 185s that were on sale but didn't. More pressing things in the budget this month.

Since the case was FULL of 2000MR, PPVarmint was logically the next step for 200s. Same PPU brass, Fed 215 with 200 Hornady Sp Pt. @ 3.300". 2 shot groups to start looking for speed & pressure.

68=2804 & 2901
68.5=2829 & 2905
69=2814 & 2826- did muzzle up to settle powder before shooting from here upward. ES improved.
69.5=2817 & 2837
70=2870 & 2886
70.5=2887 & 2915
71=2881 & 2941
71.5=2923 & 2964
72=2932 & 2933
72.5=2967 & 2983
73=3027 & 3040
73.5=3048 & 3050

Continued upward with 4 shot groups. Have not retested these yet & probably wont. All shot 3 & 1 on a calm 80* day. 73.5 to 74.5 shot 3 into c.3/4" & the 4th was out by another 1/2 to 3/4"

73=2980
73.5=3010
74=3040
74.5=3037- slight bolt lift?
75=3080-definite bolt lift. These resized notably harder as well. The bulge above the belt was visible as a shiny spot... not to be confused with incipient separation... it just grew in diameter.

So... in my rifle with 200s PPVarmint pressured out at a lower velocity than 2000MR & wasn't as well behaved in any way. Thinking that the 85.5gr of 2000MR is flirting with max, just not able to go any higher to prove it without a pressure measuring device. If you have some of those Barnes 185s, Varmint could be your huckleberry... or not.

Again, excellent info. Thanks!

That is great info 358WCF. Any way you slice it, that is a hammer of a set up you have.

Glad to be of assistance. Let us know how the lighter stuff works with Varmint if'n you decide to try them.

It's t-shirt weather again here so will be playing with varmint rifles more than the big stuff.

Congrats……. all .35’s are good……. You have awesome! memtb

Nice, should thump anything you a liable to run across!

I don't have as much 2000-MR as I had thought but have a good pile of H4350 and it clearly a classic favorite in the Norma so did some velocity testing with the 250 Speer and 225 TSX.

I have been playing with the "Satterlee" method of load development the past year which basically has you pick a reasonable starting charge within a couple grains of max and go up slowly looking for flat spots in the velocity readings. I am not 100% sold on it but I am not not-sold on it either. When I tested some of my proven loads and the method took me to essentially the same powder charge I was impressed. I will keep messing with it till I decide for myself it is either the way to go or a waste of time or powder.

I digress.

The recommended interval is .2 grains but with a bigger case I went totally buck wild and chose .3 grain increments (you should see me at the company Christmas party...totally off the hook). Here is what the data looked like.

250 Speer @ 3.34" COL (2.76" CBTO)
Norma Virgin Brass
Fed 215 GM Primer
H4350 Powder

71.9- 2689
72.2- 2722
72.5- 2707
72.8- No Reading
73.1- 2750
73.4- 2755
73.7- 2776
74.0- 2750
74.3- 2763
74.7- 2767

I did let the rifle cool slightly between shots 5/6 and 8/9 but not completely so all but the first round or two were with a warm barrel. 2750-2767 seems to be about where it wants to max out. Anything beyond that is probably well into diminishing returns territory with H4350. None of the cases showed any signs of pressure and the velocities are right in line with where they should be given my 22" barrel as compared to published data. I plan to shoot for accuracy at 73.3 and 74.5 grains. With such a minor difference in velocity I am hoping the 73.3 shoots best since it is plenty fast and brass life should be excellent.

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225 TSX @ 3.345" COL (2.712" CBTO)
Norma Virgin Brass
Fed 215 GM Primer
H4350 Powder

73.0- 2839
73.3- 2841
73.6- 2857
73.9- 2866
74.2- 2890
74.5- 2879
74.8- 2880 (slight primer flattening, easy extraction)
75.1- 2897 (very slight primer flattening, easy extraction)
75.4- 2908 (no signs)
75.7- 2912 (no signs)

I cooled the rifle a few minutes between 5/6 but that was it this round. Interestingly, if I would have went in 1 grain increments I could have went from 74.5 to 75.5 and never seen any pressure indicators at all. It looks like 2900 is possible but I will likely look for accuracy closer to 2880 or even 2860 as that is plenty fast enough to keep the TSX above 2000 fps past 400 yards. At 2860 brass life should be excellent.


On my property I have an old railroad grade that I shoot into at times. I found a couple bullets. These were impacts from about 10-12 yards. Gravel is obviously pretty rough on even the TSX but both were around 72% weight retention. With the petal shed you still end up with a nice meplat and a slug over 160 grains. That seems like a train that would be hard to stop.



One note on the recoil... I shot today from the front seat of my suburban wearing just a light sweatshirt. I found the recoil to be very manageable with this 9 pound rifle. No bruised shoulder or pain, even with minimal padding from my clothes. It was fairly sharp but not bad about muzzle rise. It is not a pussycat but not a firebreathing monster either...probably no worse then my Ruger .300 win mag which I shoot regularly.

73.7 looks smack dab in the middle for the 250 load.

75.4 for the 225 TSX load looks good too.

I use the same method and like you I’m still learning but it’s worked multiple times. In virgin brass you’ll get a bit more anomalies but overall your stuff looks great to me.

Can’t wait to see how it prints.

The Virgin brass makes sense with the anomalies. Hadn’t thought that through. Thanks

I’m thinking you’re going to have two great loads pretty quick. Chances are the big 358 ain’t going to be overly fussy.

I think that is probably correct. I don't need half minute out of a .358" big game rifle so won't take much doing to get to "good enough".

I need to work up a lighter load with 200s for plinking and forming brass.

Gonna be a hammer Jud! 👊🏻

You guys draw any cool permits?

That 200 TTSX blazing fast might be a sweet all around'er too..

I don't know a single person in my close network that drew anything worth a damn. Obviously still waiting on the big three and antelope.




I have some of those on hand but going to see what they will do in my Whelen before I try them in the Norma.