|
Joined: Jan 2020
Posts: 5,219 Likes: 5
Campfire Tracker
|
OP
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2020
Posts: 5,219 Likes: 5 |
I'm fire forming some .243 ai brass using factory 100gr Hornady, Norma and Remington ammo. Just curious as to what I should expect accuracy wise. Thanks, Vince
Life is good live it while you can.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 492
Campfire Member
|
Campfire Member
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 492 |
Has been my experience that it will be almost as accurate as your reloads. Pleant accurate for hunting and plinking. YMMV
How can I tell you bye if you wont leave?
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,256 Likes: 38
Campfire Kahuna
|
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 60,256 Likes: 38 |
Same here.
In smaller-caliber cartridges up to .257 Ackley Improved have often fire-formed brass by shooting prairie dogs.
“Montana seems to me to be what a small boy would think Texas is like from hearing Texans.” John Steinbeck
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 5,838 Likes: 1
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 5,838 Likes: 1 |
I have never fireformed factory ammo on any of my AI's but have never had any trouble finding an accurate load for fireforming standard brass. Like Mule Deer commented I fireform on dog towns on rifles suitable for that.
I killed a mule deer with the fifth fireforming load out of my first 280 AI at a shade over 300 yds.
I'm sorry Im no help with the factory ammo fireforming.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 58,755 Likes: 57
Campfire Kahuna
|
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 58,755 Likes: 57 |
From the hip,I doubt I've much more than 30 or so "Improveds". Hint. Like anything/everything else,Accuracy and/or Precision are factored by the WHOLE enchilada. I'm not much into fhuqking around(no Factory Fodder) and simply kiss,find pressure and rock on,in EXCEPTIONAL platforms. Hint. Perhaps firing pin slop,at the same time?!? Hint. SAME ammo(lot) and prior to Greg's LOVE. HINT. Just sayin'. Hint................
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 14,592 Likes: 12
Campfire Outfitter
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 14,592 Likes: 12 |
I shot a match yesterday with virgin SAAMI .223 loads in a .223AI. FF loads can shoot nearly as well (or even better, at times) as formed loads.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 58,755 Likes: 57
Campfire Kahuna
|
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 58,755 Likes: 57 |
224 Speedmire forming. Hint. 17 Rem forming a coupla days ago. Hint. K22 Ammo Lot swap,a coupla days ago. Hint. Hint.................
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 7,988 Likes: 3
Campfire Outfitter
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 7,988 Likes: 3 |
I've found fireforming with full house loads in my few AI rifles results in as good accuracy and sometimes better than the subsequent reloads...
My Pre 64 300 Mag H&H of course, went out for the first time after I got it and my son was shooting it to get ready for elk season. He shot about 4 shots with my handloads and we looked at the target . You could cover all four with a dime and have change. I looked at the brass and it looked funny so we stopped shooting until I figured it out. Finally figured out that it had bee rechambered to AI and not been remarked. I went to the gunshop where my buddy got it before our trade and low and behold he had the dies setting on the shelf and he made me a good deal on them. It is still my son's favorite elk rifle and I may not get it back any time soon...
Never underestimate your ability to overestimate your ability.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 512
Campfire Regular
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 512 |
As others point out you can generally expect good accuracy. I’ve done quite a bit of fire forming and only the K-Hornet was a bit off as I recall. But my 243 AI and 30-06 AI both shot very well. I don’t reduce my loads but use full power loads and get nicely formed shoulders and very good accuracy. I’ve thought about this quite a bit and discussed it with people smarter than me and nobody can explained it. However remember velocity will fall off as some pressure is lost pushing the shoulder out, so longer range performance must be factored at the reduced velocity.
Rick
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 20,958 Likes: 3
Campfire Ranger
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 20,958 Likes: 3 |
My fire forming loads have always fired an aggregate group under 2” at 100 yds for 50 rounds.
By the way, in case you missed it, Jeremiah was a bullfrog.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 11,336
Campfire Outfitter
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 11,336 |
My 243AI is really accurate when FF with 85gr BTHP bullets.
I may not be smart but I can lift heavy objects
I have a shotgun so I have no need for a 30-06.....
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,431 Likes: 7
Campfire Outfitter
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,431 Likes: 7 |
To fireform 257 Roberts Ackley that headpaced like a 257 Roberts. Not 0.004" shorter, like I should have done:
1) Form half a shoulder with 10 gr of any pistol powder and covered with cream of wheat. No bullet. Fire straight up if allowed. To fire horizontally at the range, cap the case mouth with Ivory soap so the powder will not fall out. This half shoulder is adequate to stand up to the firing pin push. Without this step the case can stretch and crack just behind the shoulder. 2) Load and fire with full power 257 Roberts Ackley load and expect usual accuracy. 3) The shoulder is now fully formed.
There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. -Ernest Hemingway The man who makes no mistakes does not usually make anything.-- Edward John Phelps
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 5,838 Likes: 1
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 5,838 Likes: 1 |
To fireform 257 Roberts Ackley that headpaced like a 257 Roberts. Not 0.004" shorter, like I should have done:
1) Form half a shoulder with 10 gr of any pistol powder and covered with cream of wheat. No bullet. Fire straight up if allowed. To fire horizontally at the range, cap the case mouth with Ivory soap so the powder will not fall out. This half shoulder is adequate to stand up to the firing pin push. Without this step the case can stretch and crack just behind the shoulder. 2) Load and fire with full power 257 Roberts Ackley load and expect usual accuracy. 3) The shoulder is now fully formed. Or you could just run the cases over a .264 expander ball then neck back down to .257 enough to form a false shoulder, seat the bullets out to jam and fire away.
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 10,525 Likes: 16
Campfire Outfitter
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 10,525 Likes: 16 |
My younger brother had very good luck shooting 223 in 223AI. I also had good luck in shooting 22-250 in 22-250AI. On my 375 H&H AI I just used 375 H&H loads as practice off-hand and am unsure regarding accuracy.
I prefer classic. Semper Fi I used to run with the hare. Now I'm envious of the tortoise and I do my own stunts but rarely intentionally
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 15,368 Likes: 13
Campfire Ranger
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 15,368 Likes: 13 |
My 375 Improved does real well with FF loads. Seems like most of the guns to include the Mashburn are easily just about as accurate with FF loads as they are with normal loads.
Semper Fi
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2020
Posts: 5,219 Likes: 5
Campfire Tracker
|
OP
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jan 2020
Posts: 5,219 Likes: 5 |
Are you guys fire forming factory ammo or hand loads? I'm not seeing that kind of accuracy. I do think I cracked the shoulder of a piece of factory Norma brass during my fire forming.
Life is good live it while you can.
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 10,441 Likes: 1
Campfire Outfitter
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 10,441 Likes: 1 |
MD and Stick are right.
When shooting factory, I'd expect no better or worse than in a conventional chambering. Gun might like, or might not, and that's probably the bullet.
Normally, however, an AI or other wildcat is for handloaders who find factory lacking.
I did some 223 AI for a friend, handload from the start. As long as the brass was snug in the chamber (and this was a well-done 700 custom, so it was except for some virgin Rem cases, those I expanded and false=shouldered to "snug") the rifle shot. First I picked an FF load for him, and after he'd shot through enough of his brass, did fireform loads with NS only. Can't remember exactly, but the final loads were around 1 to 1.2 grains more of the same powder, same seating length. My impression was that groups were around a tenth smaller, with the FF's in the low .400s up to .5, but almost every group was a good group, nothing over .6
The Rem brass ended up fine, with the shouldering trick the FF's shot well enough to PD, and the final load result was much the same as the other headstamps. He loves that rifle. Still uses those loads, only change is he's seating them longer as the rifling wears.
Up hills slow, Down hills fast Tonnage first and Safety last.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 7,206 Likes: 1
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 7,206 Likes: 1 |
True Grit, that case does not have enough pressure, shoulder is no where near fully formed. Light loads and fire forming do not go hand in hand, about 90%+ full throttle is where the magic begins.
I killed a lot of coyotes fire forming 22/250 AI brass, lots of p. dogs FForming 223 AI and 243 AI brass.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 7,484 Likes: 9
Campfire Tracker
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 7,484 Likes: 9 |
Both my 280 AI’s shot screamer groups while fireforming. They always left me shaking my head. Now I use Nosler 280 AI brass and drive on.
You only live once, but...if you do it right, once is enough.
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 2,029 Likes: 3
Campfire Regular
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 2,029 Likes: 3 |
Never could understand why people complained about " fireforming brass". Done correctly its very accurate and if you shoot enough you learn to appreciate not having to trim brass length on AI cartridges near as much.
|
|
|
|
532 members (160user, 12344mag, 10gaugeman, 117LBS, 1234, 1beaver_shooter, 55 invisible),
2,858
guests, and
1,202
robots. |
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
Forums81
Topics1,194,796
Posts18,536,459
Members74,041
|
Most Online11,491 Jul 7th, 2023
|
|
|
|