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BB will be along any minute Intuition....... It’s a good thing the doc didn’t cut Bart’s vagina out as well....Or, we’d all have a hard time knowing what time it is. Lol 🦫
Curiosity Killed the Cat & The Prairie Dog
“Molon Labe”
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Campfire Ranger
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You bastards are responsible for EE's death....and should feel guilty.
Doc is probably responsible for multiple deaths and injuries from pushing the vax.....but he's a good dude and smarter than all of you and should not feel guilty.
Did I get that right?
. JC.... I've got your idiot butt on "ignore", but local dirt quoted you and I was HOPING someone would bring this up. And yes, I am a good dude, and I am demonstrably smarter than you. So, if I'm responsible for multiple deaths and injuries from "pushing the vax"... can you name one? Go ahead, look it up in the Texas Medical Board complaints list... has anyone lodged a complaint against me for having suffered an adverse event from a vaccine that I recommended? Sorry, you can't, because it hasn't happened. But since we are all playing nicely together in this little sandbox, let's look at it in our own neighborhood... has anyone on here died because I recommended the vaccine in 2021? (Keep in mind that I'm not recommending it at all since late 2021, if that matters to you.) Because there is at least one death that the idiots on this forum contributed to, whether you like it or not.
"I'm gonna have to science the schit out of this." Mark Watney, Sol 59, Mars
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Campfire Tracker
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I'm far from a D student and I've had covid 2x now. I know you're educated, and you have obvious intelligence. You and me have 2X Covid Purple Heart medals in common, btw.
My skepticism wasn't that it existed - mine had to do with the likelihood of death from contracting it and while I mourn the loss of Ethan that doesn't radically change the fact that the VAST majority of people survive covid and those that don't typically have at least some other co-morbidity and the blanket response to covid (shutting down the country, conditioning people to accept without question etc) was disproportionate to the danger at large.
The majority of people survive the flu and the common cold too - until it becomes something more that they should get checked out. Same with Covid - it's mostly nothing, until it isn't but until it isn't - don't trample the rights and economy of those it's not affecting.
The overreaction to the pandemic by the authorities was insane, and extremely harmful. On this we are in full agreement. I have been accused of supporting those shutdowns in here, and I must protest again that I did not support the lockdowns. I DID support the concepts of social distancing and limiting public gatherings for a short time early in the pandemic, and it turned out that my belief in these measures was WRONG. I have apologized to the members of this forum for being wrong about that, and I do so again. I WAS WRONG. Those measures didn't accomplish a single goddam positive thing. Yes, the majority of people survived Covid. They also survive influenza, and if they're of European descent, the majority survived Smallpox. But many, many people died from Covid pneumonia would not have died if they fecking virus hadn't been released on us. Many of them died who could have avoided hospital altogether by getting outpatient treatment. Many of them died because they spurned the opportunity to get vaccinated. And many others died because they didn't come in to hospital for treatment until it was too late for us to treat them. It's this latter group that I place full blame on the D students. (Of which you are not one, as noted above.) I know too many vaccinated people that aught covid despite the vaccinations to be it is effective and who in he'll knows what the long term problems it may cause. It is unreal to me that medical professionals recommend it They changed their tune. So now it doesn’t prevent the bug, it “lessens the symptoms”. Something that is impossible to prove or disprove. Actually, that is among the easier things to prove. Comparing hospitalizations, severity of illness and deaths among the different groups would show this. And it does.
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Campfire Ranger
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I asked Doc about getting the jab[after explaining my circumstance] and he recommended against my getting it. Jes sayin[/quote] From the 'way back in this thread' machine
FJB & FJT
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Using the death of a member to make your point that you weren’t wrong, aren’t wrong, and to ASSume anyone here whether discussing treatments or giving advice contributed to his death is dûcking horseshît.
You are also insulting the man’s memory by inferring he was too stupid to listen to you and took all his medical advice from strangers on an Internet forum. Gruff, better hold on to your shirt. You're coming off angry, which makes me wonder if you're feeling a little bit guilty about this yourself....? (And please understand I respect you and your views, I haven't put you on ignore, I don't consider you one of the D students, none of those things.) This example is uncomfortable to talk about but at this point the members on this place have made me plenty heap big uncomfortable, so I'm willing to share the discomfort for the sake of getting rid of some bullsh!t. EE died because he stubbornly refused to get medical care. He was clearly swayed by the Luddites on here who claimed Covid wasn't a real thing. He said as much in his posts here. I know it, and you know it. The man died. He died of Covid. He died because he believed it wasn't worth seeking medical attention for. I NEVER ADVISED him one way or another, because he didn't ask me for advice. Sure, I put advice out here for anyone to read, take it or leave it. I have no idea if he took it or left it. So how, exactly, is this insulting his memory? I'm afraid you haven't explained how it's an insult... you have merely asserted that it is an insult. Please explain.
Last edited by DocRocket; 04/28/22.
"I'm gonna have to science the schit out of this." Mark Watney, Sol 59, Mars
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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I'm far from a D student and I've had covid 2x now. I know you're educated, and you have obvious intelligence. You and me have 2X Covid Purple Heart medals in common, btw.
My skepticism wasn't that it existed - mine had to do with the likelihood of death from contracting it and while I mourn the loss of Ethan that doesn't radically change the fact that the VAST majority of people survive covid and those that don't typically have at least some other co-morbidity and the blanket response to covid (shutting down the country, conditioning people to accept without question etc) was disproportionate to the danger at large.
The majority of people survive the flu and the common cold too - until it becomes something more that they should get checked out. Same with Covid - it's mostly nothing, until it isn't but until it isn't - don't trample the rights and economy of those it's not affecting.
The overreaction to the pandemic by the authorities was insane, and extremely harmful. On this we are in full agreement. I have been accused of supporting those shutdowns in here, and I must protest again that I did not support the lockdowns. I DID support the concepts of social distancing and limiting public gatherings for a short time early in the pandemic, and it turned out that my belief in these measures was WRONG. I have apologized to the members of this forum for being wrong about that, and I do so again. I WAS WRONG. Those measures didn't accomplish a single goddam positive thing. Yes, the majority of people survived Covid. They also survive influenza, and if they're of European descent, the majority survived Smallpox. But many, many people died from Covid pneumonia would not have died if they fecking virus hadn't been released on us. Many of them died who could have avoided hospital altogether by getting outpatient treatment. Many of them died because they spurned the opportunity to get vaccinated. And many others died because they didn't come in to hospital for treatment until it was too late for us to treat them. It's this latter group that I place full blame on the D students. (Of which you are not one, as noted above.) I know too many vaccinated people that aught covid despite the vaccinations to be it is effective and who in he'll knows what the long term problems it may cause. It is unreal to me that medical professionals recommend it They changed their tune. So now it doesn’t prevent the bug, it “lessens the symptoms”. Something that is impossible to prove or disprove. Actually, that is among the easier things to prove. Comparing hospitalizations, severity of illness and deaths among the different groups would show this. And it does. That is impossible to prove
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Using the death of a member to make your point that you weren’t wrong, aren’t wrong, and to ASSume anyone here whether discussing treatments or giving advice contributed to his death is dûcking horseshît.
You are also insulting the man’s memory by inferring he was too stupid to listen to you and took all his medical advice from strangers on an Internet forum. Gruff, better hold on to your shirt. You're coming off angry, which makes me wonder if you're feeling a little bit guilty about this yourself....? EE died because he stubbornly refused to get medical care. He was clearly swayed by the Luddites on here who claimed Covid wasn't a real thing. The man died. He died of Covid. He died because he believed it wasn't worth seeking medical attention for. I NEVER ADVISED him one way or another, because he didn't ask me for advice. Sure, I put advice out here for anyone to read, take it or leave it. I have no idea if he took it or left it. So how, exactly, is this insulting his memory? I'm afraid you haven't explained how it's an insult... you have merely asserted that it is an insult. Please explain. You have no idea why EE died you are simply guessing nor do you know if he went to the emergency room if that would have made any difference
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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Actually, that is among the easier things to prove. Comparing hospitalizations, severity of illness and deaths among the different groups would show this. And it does.
That is impossible to prove Well, John, hold on there a second. He just told you how it's been proven. And it has. Saying that it's impossible to prove is just plain silly.
"I'm gonna have to science the schit out of this." Mark Watney, Sol 59, Mars
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Campfire 'Bwana
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I remember reading and researching alot about the shot trials in mid to late 2020.
Alot....
You had the nice tidy rose colored glasses versions for comsumption.
Then ya had the ones where it was revealed how it was cherry picked for desired outcome.
Done by the pharmaceutical companies themselves and cdc and hired groups.
Google fu the schit and dig into the hundreds of cross referencing data sites of it all.
Look into all the supporting links given for just one data source on just about any hit link.
Your average schmuck aint gonna read beyond 2 or 3 paragraphs let alone a entire trial study...
Just because one aint a doctor or molecular biologist or virologist dont mean they cant comprehend material.
Mnra shot triggering immune response with no long term studies.
What could possibly go wrong....
The Thalidomide of our times in the next 5 10 15 yrs??????
DQ,d plenty of kids as a recruiter because of shots, pills, or on going treatments prior to or after age 12 affecting their Brain development.
So the data for that schit came from somewhere saying these kids are fuuucked up now from x y and z medical schit.....
And I totally disafuuuuckinggree giving this schitt shot to any children from infants on up....
Your fuucking 18 or older...
Fuuucking mainline the schit in your jugular for all I care..
Under 18 is fuuuucking criminal influence be it from parents or influencers like fuuucking teachers, social workers and other forms of various scumballs to include med types..
Then of course if ya are in comorbidity groups young and old alike and you want or " need" the shot.
Take it.....
I'm tickled pink actually the C19 virus and the shot are mofo,s for 1.0,s actually.....
Even them stupid fuggs are reluctant to take the shot..
Why....
Because they know it might fuuuuuck em up far more readily than 2.0,s....
Leave the rest of us the fuuuuuck alone...
Leave peoples livelihoods the fuuuck alone...
This schit is all about power and control....
Weak minds cave......
This schit was unleashed by Buckethead central for globalist and Liberal Socialist Democrats to unseat President Trump.
And for Buckethead central to teach the world a economic lesson to never punish or question their long term goal of world domination.
The only President who stood up to schit in decades....
And it was a coup with a persistent low level bio wpn in conjunction with enabled election fraud....
Raise your hand if ya actually think this WAS NOT made in a lab as a wpn.
Raise your hand if you think a country developing a virus would not also develop a shot against it and inoculate their .gov and military or be phased by their people being a petri dish...
Raise your hand if ya think buckethead centrals refusal to release the dna sequences of this virus was merely innocent stuff...
Raise your hand if ya think how it broke out all over the world wasnt planned or done via buckethead central agents.
Raise your hand if ya think air flights outta china had nothing to do with the spread of this on purpose...
Raise your hand if you beleive the conditioning of old fuggs and dependent fuggs trust the .gov over the years is not a factor...
Blah blah blah blah the fuuuuucking blah.....
Plant eating fuuucking sheeple all fuuucking worried about the rest of us that still have our canine teeth infecting them and endangering their life.
🖕🖕🖕🖕🖕🖕🖕🖕🖕🖕🖕🖕🖕🖕🖕🖕🖕🖕🖕🖕🖕🖕🖕🖕
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Campfire Regular
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All these posts like thisand never a fugking word about whether deadperson(s) following FLCCC protocol or not.
Without that, these reports are totally fugking useless.
What dead persons? Birdwatcher's people? You expect a case-by-case report from him? Ha. I'll give you a case report. I knew a guy who died from Covid pneumonia. You knew him too. His handle here was Ethan Edwards. From reports his family gave to other members here, he was on FLCCC protocol drugs... or whatever other acronym you prefer, he was being treated. But he apparently bought into the lie propagated by many people, including members of this forum, that Covid was just a bad flu-like illness. He refused to go to the ER for treatment despite his worsening shortness of breath, despite his family members pleading with him to go to the hospital. I have often wondered if he might have gone to the hospital if his head hadn't been stuffed full of nonsense about SARS-CoV2 by the former highschool D students who proclaimed themselves skeptics and experts on this forum. I wonder if those self-proclaimed experts ever feel a pang of guilt for their part in Ethan Edwards' death. That’s pretty weak dude. Using EE to guilt trip people Pretty classy. More or less - kinda like all this sheit has been....
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You have no idea why EE died you are simply guessing nor do you know if he went to the emergency room if that would have made any difference
I know, from personal correspondence with a close friend of Ethan's and the family, that the account I gave above is what the family knows. He was sick, he was being treated with outpatient drugs, and he was not getting better. He was getting worse, having a lot of trouble breathing, and his kids urged him to go to hospital. He refused. I know, from posts that EE posted on this forum, that he bought into the mistaken belief that Covid was overblown and that it wouldn't kill anyone who wasn't already gravely ill ("had comorbidities" is the phrase a lot of some like to throw around). Beyond that, I know no more than you. But the circumstantial evidence is pretty solid. Folks on here who perpetuated the Covid-ain't-no-real-threat lie are to some degree culpable.
Last edited by DocRocket; 04/28/22.
"I'm gonna have to science the schit out of this." Mark Watney, Sol 59, Mars
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Campfire Tracker
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I'm far from a D student and I've had covid 2x now. I know you're educated, and you have obvious intelligence. You and me have 2X Covid Purple Heart medals in common, btw.
My skepticism wasn't that it existed - mine had to do with the likelihood of death from contracting it and while I mourn the loss of Ethan that doesn't radically change the fact that the VAST majority of people survive covid and those that don't typically have at least some other co-morbidity and the blanket response to covid (shutting down the country, conditioning people to accept without question etc) was disproportionate to the danger at large.
The majority of people survive the flu and the common cold too - until it becomes something more that they should get checked out. Same with Covid - it's mostly nothing, until it isn't but until it isn't - don't trample the rights and economy of those it's not affecting.
The overreaction to the pandemic by the authorities was insane, and extremely harmful. On this we are in full agreement. I have been accused of supporting those shutdowns in here, and I must protest again that I did not support the lockdowns. I DID support the concepts of social distancing and limiting public gatherings for a short time early in the pandemic, and it turned out that my belief in these measures was WRONG. I have apologized to the members of this forum for being wrong about that, and I do so again. I WAS WRONG. Those measures didn't accomplish a single goddam positive thing. Yes, the majority of people survived Covid. They also survive influenza, and if they're of European descent, the majority survived Smallpox. But many, many people died from Covid pneumonia would not have died if they fecking virus hadn't been released on us. Many of them died who could have avoided hospital altogether by getting outpatient treatment. Many of them died because they spurned the opportunity to get vaccinated. And many others died because they didn't come in to hospital for treatment until it was too late for us to treat them. It's this latter group that I place full blame on the D students. (Of which you are not one, as noted above.) I know too many vaccinated people that aught covid despite the vaccinations to be it is effective and who in he'll knows what the long term problems it may cause. It is unreal to me that medical professionals recommend it They changed their tune. So now it doesn’t prevent the bug, it “lessens the symptoms”. Something that is impossible to prove or disprove. Actually, that is among the easier things to prove. Comparing hospitalizations, severity of illness and deaths among the different groups would show this. And it does. That is impossible to prove Not at all. Comparing illness severity and deaths among vaccinated vs unvaccinated persons within a risk group would easily tell this. This data is widely available.
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More or less - kinda like all this sheit has been.... Coming from that paragon of class and virtue, Jim Conrad, the sarcasm is wasted. As for "keeping it classy" here, it's long past that. Like I just wrote to Gruff, the members here have had no problem trying to make me feel uncomfortable, and to some degree that's justified. I'm willing to take the heat. So why aren't the rest of y'all?
"I'm gonna have to science the schit out of this." Mark Watney, Sol 59, Mars
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Campfire 'Bwana
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EE died because he stubbornly refused to get medical care. He was clearly swayed by the Luddites on here who claimed Covid wasn't a real thing. He said as much in his posts here. I know it, and you know it.
The man died. He died of Covid. He died because he believed it wasn't worth seeking medical attention for. I NEVER ADVISED him one way or another, because he didn't ask me for advice. Sure, I put advice out here for anyone to read, take it or leave it. I have no idea if he took it or left it.
So how, exactly, is this insulting his memory? I'm afraid you haven't explained how it's an insult... you have merely asserted that it is an insult. Please explain.
I didn't know EE personally other than talking here. I have questions - respectfully - 1. Are you claiming Ethan died because he believed that Covid didn't exist? 2. Is it fair to call someone a "Luddite" for saying Covid is overblown but not call someone a luddite for being so sick that they're close to death and refusing to go to the doctor? I would think a reasonable person on their deathbed would seek help because something most definitely IS happening to him - belief in Covid or not. 3. How do you know he took the advice that "covid wasn't worth seeking medical attention for" but don't know that he may/may not have taken your advice (not to him specifically) 4. Did Ethan have ANY co-morbidities? I do - I'm fat, I know I'm fat and yet - here I sit 2x covid guy, currently in the 2nd bout of it. I also know that there's not much to be done unless things get bad, they're not at this time so even if I didn't believe in Covid and if I never was tested and popped positive - I do know I am "sick" in some way and I also know that there are many ways to be "sick" and I would seek out help. I'm not kicking sand on Ethan but if a person is sick, even if they don't believe in X disease, they still get checked out incase it's Y disease and calling one group a luddite seems to be pretty selective. I don't know how you know for certain Ethan passed because not only did he not believe in Covid but apparently he also didn't believe he was sick in some way - call it pneumonia, shingles, herpes or even just pink eye.
Me
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Yep....
Lets drag another member's decision process and death into this argument as justification for either side of the schit....
Have at it.......
SMH.....
I knew enough to stay away from slumlord for 2 months prior to his surgeries.
And he is fully vaxxed of his own choosing and situations.
And he still caught the C19 crap and had to be hospitalized.
So maybe those shots helped him or they didnt.
Pushing it as a vaccine and how they exploited the historical sense of the word as given one immunity....
Then the CDC changing their meaing of the word vaccine to suit the agenda once the schit shot was shown that it offers no immunity but mearly a premptive immume response that might lesson effects......
Uh huh.......
Gotcha....
Thats a fuuucking treatment not a vaccine......
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Using the death of a member to make your point that you weren’t wrong, aren’t wrong, and to ASSume anyone here whether discussing treatments or giving advice contributed to his death is dûcking horseshît.
You are also insulting the man’s memory by inferring he was too stupid to listen to you and took all his medical advice from strangers on an Internet forum. Gruff, better hold on to your shirt. You're coming off angry, which makes me wonder if you're feeling a little bit guilty about this yourself....? (And please understand I respect you and your views, I haven't put you on ignore, I don't consider you one of the D students, none of those things.) This example is uncomfortable to talk about but at this point the members on this place have made me plenty heap big uncomfortable, so I'm willing to share the discomfort for the sake of getting rid of some bullsh!t. EE died because he stubbornly refused to get medical care. He was clearly swayed by the Luddites on here who claimed Covid wasn't a real thing. He said as much in his posts here. I know it, and you know it. The man died. He died of Covid. He died because he believed it wasn't worth seeking medical attention for. I NEVER ADVISED him one way or another, because he didn't ask me for advice. Sure, I put advice out here for anyone to read, take it or leave it. I have no idea if he took it or left it. So how, exactly, is this insulting his memory? I'm afraid you haven't explained how it's an insult... you have merely asserted that it is an insult. Please explain. Not angry. I can have a spirited discussion without getting emotional  . I’ll take the time to type up an answer tonight. I hate typing out long posts on my phone
MAGA
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Campfire 'Bwana
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I'm far from a D student and I've had covid 2x now. I know you're educated, and you have obvious intelligence. You and me have 2X Covid Purple Heart medals in common, btw.
My skepticism wasn't that it existed - mine had to do with the likelihood of death from contracting it and while I mourn the loss of Ethan that doesn't radically change the fact that the VAST majority of people survive covid and those that don't typically have at least some other co-morbidity and the blanket response to covid (shutting down the country, conditioning people to accept without question etc) was disproportionate to the danger at large.
The majority of people survive the flu and the common cold too - until it becomes something more that they should get checked out. Same with Covid - it's mostly nothing, until it isn't but until it isn't - don't trample the rights and economy of those it's not affecting.
The overreaction to the pandemic by the authorities was insane, and extremely harmful. On this we are in full agreement. I have been accused of supporting those shutdowns in here, and I must protest again that I did not support the lockdowns. I DID support the concepts of social distancing and limiting public gatherings for a short time early in the pandemic, and it turned out that my belief in these measures was WRONG. I have apologized to the members of this forum for being wrong about that, and I do so again. I WAS WRONG. Those measures didn't accomplish a single goddam positive thing. Yes, the majority of people survived Covid. They also survive influenza, and if they're of European descent, the majority survived Smallpox. But many, many people died from Covid pneumonia would not have died if they fecking virus hadn't been released on us. Many of them died who could have avoided hospital altogether by getting outpatient treatment. Many of them died because they spurned the opportunity to get vaccinated. And many others died because they didn't come in to hospital for treatment until it was too late for us to treat them. It's this latter group that I place full blame on the D students. (Of which you are not one, as noted above.) I know too many vaccinated people that aught covid despite the vaccinations to be it is effective and who in he'll knows what the long term problems it may cause. It is unreal to me that medical professionals recommend it They changed their tune. So now it doesn’t prevent the bug, it “lessens the symptoms”. Something that is impossible to prove or disprove. Actually, that is among the easier things to prove. Comparing hospitalizations, severity of illness and deaths among the different groups would show this. And it does. That is impossible to prove Not at all. Comparing illness severity and deaths among vaccinated vs unvaccinated persons within a risk group would easily tell this. This data is widely available. I think the point being made is that a person can have any number of responses to covid. A vaccinated can have very severe or not so severe experience (saw it with my dad who had a very severe response) and unvaccinated person can have a severe or not severe response (saw it with me and my step-mother). the thought is it's hard to state with a scientific certainty - because of that variance in experience that any one individual had less severe or more sever response because of their vaccination status because - as I understand it - there isn't enough disparity in responses to weighted to one or the other. Severe is also fairly subjective. Some people were bad and admitted to hospitals, some weren't. Some weren't all that bad and admitted to hospitals and some weren't. There was no singular and repeatable SOP for defining a severe case or not and it varied from hospital to hospital. The data is "dirty" for lack of a better word and that's the problem. I'm not saying it's false - just that it's not clean.
Me
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+1 He's always given solid advice. Same here
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Good questions, and fair.
1 I don't think EE thought it didn't exist. But he did say in this forum that it was overblown, and agreed with posts by 2 members (JoeBob and Flave) who blew it off as a minor illness. That's as much as I know.
2. I don't think EE was a Luddite in the true sense of the word. He and I corresponded a lot in the past, less so in recent years, and I believe he was a smart guy and well-educated. He could be very stubborn in his opinions (especially if he and I disagreed on some points!) and that may have been a contributing factor. HOWEVER... I have a further point to make with this, which I will do below...
3. I have no idea if he took some of the advice I offered on this forum. The fact that he was on outpatient meds, which I had recommended more than once, may imply he'd listened to me, but we can't know that.
4. I believe he did have a couple of comorbidities, from what I've been told.
and 5. I am not kicking sand on Ethan here at all, at all. I liked and respected him, even though he and I had some pretty hard set-to's now and again. I consider his death a very sad tragedy.
As to item 2, above.... one of the alarming things we ER docs learned about people with severe Covid pneumonia was that they would lose their sound judgment as they became more hypoxic. This is a known phenomenon... fighter pilots whose O2 systems go out become seriously confused, delusional even, and unless they descend to a level where ambient air has enough O's (12,000' or so) they will lose consciousness and crash. Same thing happens with people in severe respiratory compromise.
It was common for us to see Covid pneumonia patients come in with SaO2's in the low 80's who weren't all that uncomfortable. They had "got used to" their declining oxygenation, and they just didn't think they were having much trouble breathing at all. But as they descended below 79% SaO2, their cognition and judgment declined precipitously. I intubated scores of people with SaO2's in the 70's, many in the 60's, and a few in the 50's who just didn't seem to be all that bothered by it.
I expect this is what happened to EE. As his oxygen levels dropped, his brain got used to being oxygen-deprived, and he gradually just drifted off to sleep and died.
"I'm gonna have to science the schit out of this." Mark Watney, Sol 59, Mars
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 30,982 Likes: 6
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 30,982 Likes: 6 |
Actually, that is among the easier things to prove. Comparing hospitalizations, severity of illness and deaths among the different groups would show this. And it does.
That is impossible to prove Well, John, hold on there a second. He just told you how it's been proven. And it has. Saying that it's impossible to prove is just plain silly. No it is impossible to prove. I had very mild symptoms and I haven't and will not take the vaccine.. There is no way to see how the same person would react with and without the vaccine
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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