Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters 308 Win, 150 TSX, & Varget

Gunwriters and other experienced folks,

I'm sorry if this has already been rehashed a thousand times, but the search function does not seem to be working for me. I got no matches searching subjects in all forums on keyword "tsx" from the last year!

Anyway, I would like to know how much Varget y'all are stuffing under the 150 grain Barnes TSX in caliber 308 Winchester. I worked up to 47 today in my Kimber with no apparent problems other than flattened primers. Surprisingly, reloadersnest doesn't list a single load in 308 with the 150 TSX and Varget. And apparently, a guy has to be a member of some sort of club to get the Barnes website to display all their loads online.

Thanks for all replies.
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Red,

Yer there! Speer # 13 lists a compressed load of 47.0 grains of Varget as max in the .308 with 150 grain bullets. The flattened primer is another indication that the pressure (more powder) should NOT be increased.

Wayne

I agree on the flattened primer as an indicator. I would drop down a half grain at a time, until the primers look normal.

Copper club has data for nthe upcoming Barnes manual #4 shows 48 grains max with a 150 gr TSX, velocity 2912, it also shows 48 grains of reloder 15. My Kimber maxs out at 46.5 grs with a 150 gr ballistic tip, very accurate, but the odd stiff bolt lift.

The book max tells you not to exceed a certain limit. The flattened primer puts you in a zone where Murphy lives. Namely, anything that can go wrong, will. Besides, game won't know the difference in the few fps you get from living on the edge.

Wayne

46.5 gr's Varget (and RL15) with the 150 TSX in my 308. 47.0 with "standard" cup/core 150's.

RL15 typically runs about 25 fps faster in most 308's over Varget with equal accuracy so I tend to use RL15.

Thanks for the replies.

I suppose we'll consider 47 grains the max load, and 46 the working load. I measured not more than 1 ten-thousandth of an inch case head expansion at 47 grains so I believe I'm still "in the black." I always try to keep my working loads about 2% under max. Both 46 and 47 grain loads were compressed, with 47 being quite heavily so. Groups at 46 grains prove that the load shoots where pointed, so all that remains is to plug a few deer with these magic TSX pills and find out for my dang self what all the fuss is about. This will be my first attempt on game with the TSX. Always did like a load that leaves an exit hole to bleed from, but the Kimber is not too fond of my beloved 180 grain jacketed slugs. This whiz-bang TSX might be just what the doctor ordered. We'll see.

I hope y'all's archery deer hunting is going better than mine this year. Jeesh!
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Case head expansion isn't really any sort of accurate determiner of pressure. To a lesser degree, ditto observing primers.

Better to get a chronograph... if your velocities are off the charts, so is pressure.

Amen, brother. And a chronograph can be had for about the cost of a good powder scale.

- TJM

I was advised up to 48.5gr of Varget via an email from barnes and hit all kinds of pressure signs at 48, flowed brass into the ejector of my model 7 and created a single shot...

I eventually went over the chronograph and got 3013fps!!! Needless to say I only fired one shoot and not a string for average. With the 150 NBT I have gone to 49.0 of Varget (Hodgdon book max) and was getting a very consistent 2915fps with excellent accuracy.

Backing off to 46gr under the 150TSX still gives 2900fps and excellent accuracy. Thats all I could ever expect from a .308

I found the 150 TSX to be very accurate in my Rem. Ti .308. It was with RL15, though. Varget just didn't do well for me. The throat in mine is terribly looong, so it was just a tad higher charge weight than you, but it sounds like you are on the top edge, for your rifle. Time to back down a bit, for safety. Hot weather or a hot chamber could prove dangerous.

I agree with a poster above. It's time for a chronograph. It was like turning on the lights when I finally got one, and started using it. Good luck and stay safe!!

Yeah, well I don't have a chronograph yet. The reputable loading manuals I have all talk about case head expansion as a means of recognizing excessive pressure in rounds that operate at 50kCUP or 60kpsi. Even the loading guidelines on the paper in the box with my TSX bullets says to keep case head expansion below 0.0005" in once-fired cases. Granted, this technique does not work with calibers that operate at lower pressure.

Per the Speer Manual, their max load for a 150 gr bullet is 49 gr. RL-15. I am using 48.0 gr RL-15 and getting excellent groups and velocity from a T/C Prohunter with a 28" barrel. If you are getting flattened primers, it is time to back off at least a half a grain. I think my Speer manual (#13) is pretty trustworthy for max loads, they really are. Don't exceed them, they really are max. That has been my experience with both 308 and 7-08 loads.

Maximum loads, yeah... I have been reloading for thirty-five years, finally got a chrono a couple of years ago... interesting. I still haven't given up my (non)system for determining maximimum loads in a given rifle: check several sources to get a feel for the maximum load for a given powder/bullet weight combination (the loaddata site is good for this, also magazine articles, powder/bullet manuals)and factor in the bullet or powder makers's (or both) maximum for the specific bullet to get a feel for a reasonable starting point (you'll find "maximums" all over the place; load up a few 5% below (average of all above factors) max with the bullets .050 off the lands and shoot them; if bolt lift is ok, primer looks ok, case head expansion is less than .0005, and accuracy is good for the application call it good enough. If it's not accurate enough or if I have time and want to play around, start cranking out batches of five at half-grain increment increases. If, examining all the above parameters anything starts to feel hinkey, stop. If accuracy deteriorates, stop. Nowadays I start off shooting what I've determined is a starting load over the chrono. My "scientifically" determined starting loads haven't set off any alarms yet, with most speeds being somewhat below what one would expect per the manuals and other sources. Point is, there is so much variation in lots of powder, bore, throat and chamber dimensions, jacket resistance and who knows what else, that you need to apply a certain amount of critical thinking to the process of determining a starting load. I would be leery of working with data from just one source.

Only 4 or 5 of my rifles settle down right at max. Most like a grain or 2 grains less. Also, I have 0 guns over 6.5 mm that are more accutate at max than slightly less. Also, shaking hands with Murphy at each shot (wrong primer, wrong depth, ammo in the sun,etc.) isn't my idea of a comfortable day at the range.

Wayne

That's precisely why I load under max, like I said before.

DO YOU THINK YOU WILL GET ADEQUATE EXPANSION @ 308 velocities to make the TSX kill as effectively as it does @ faster speeds ....(expansion)?

Yes, with the 150 grain bullet. TSX expand well down to about 2000 fps. The 150s are 2900 wil get down that low WAAAAAYYY out there. Most shots under 400 yards will be fine.

BMT

I might just buy some of the TTSXs for the 308 and save the TSXs for something else. I gotta believe the TTSX will expand reliably at lower velocity than the TSX becuase the hole in front of the TTSX is much bigger.

What ranges are your shots at typically? What is the game?

If you're after a deer load and are worried about expansion at range get a 150 Speer, Hornady or Nosler B-Tip.

Personally however, I'd have confidence in the 150 TSX at .308 speed opening sufficiently out to 500 yards...