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Campfire Outfitter
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Originally Posted by plumbum
Originally Posted by Hondo64d
Don’t try and convert mils to inches. It is irrelevant unless you are using your reticle to range targets.
John

Isn't that the whole reason behind FFP mil scopes?
Certainly not. In terms of importance/usefulness, estimating range is near the end of a list of about a half dozen common uses for FFP MRAD or MOA reticles.

GB1

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Originally Posted by plumbum
Originally Posted by Hondo64d
Don’t try and convert mils to inches. It is irrelevant unless you are using your reticle to range targets.
John

Isn't that the whole reason behind FFP mil scopes?

OP, 1 mil = 3.6" at 100 yds.

If you know the size of your target, then you can determine range. If the target is 36" in size, and it appears 10 mils in dimension through the scope, it is 100 yds away. If it appears 5 mils in dimension, it is 200 yards away. It's that simple. Once you know the range, you can account for bullet drop, and either adjust for hold or adjust your elevation turret accordingly.

You need to know 2 things, the size of your target, and your bullet drop at various ranged.

Or, use Strelok to calculate your reticle as a simple ballistic reticle, but you need to know your ballistics for the load you will shoot, and need some way to determine range, like a Rangefinder.

With laser range finders being readily available, being able to range targets using the reticle is not nearly as important as it used to be. However, being able to observe POI and make an accurate adjustment based on that observation is priceless. Being able to range using the reticle is cool, and better than eyeballing it, but doesn’t really even factor in to why I use mil/mil scopes.

John


If my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land. 2 Chronicles 7:14
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The Astute will find MANY things to do with THE Ruler and after tasting same,one can never go backwards. Hint.

I keep a MQ scope and MilScale bino at work for Newb's,along with a LRF. Due the unerring simplicity and robustitude of same,my thoughts tend to sway the Market a "smidge". If only as per always,GOOD stuff simply seels itself. Hint.(grin)

A FFP or Fixed MilScale Spotter is worth it's weight in gold. Hint.................


Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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Originally Posted by Big Stick
The Astute will find MANY things to do with THE Ruler and after tasting same,one can never go backwards. Hint.

I keep a MQ scope and MilScale bino at work for Newb's,along with a LRF. Due the unerring simplicity and robustitude of same,my thoughts tend to sway the Market a "smidge". If only as per always,GOOD stuff simply seels itself. Hint.(grin)

A FFP or Fixed MilScale Spotter is worth it's weight in gold. Hint.................
Absolutely.

After getting my first spotter with a fixed 30x MRAD eyepiece several years ago, I'll never go back to a spotter without a fixed or FFP reticle. Among many other uses, the "straight edge" of the reticle comes in handy for assessing legality of rams.

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Originally Posted by Big Stick
Nice. This is better than PM,as The Astute will connect dots and simply run with it. Hint.

So lets Start At The Fhuqking Start,if only because I know of no other way. Everyone shake their heads EtchaSketch Style,so you can erase all the schit you "think" you "know" and start fresh. Hint.

Firstly,it's an odd train of "thought",that folks "think" they gotta run slide rules,pull socks off to incorporate toes to help count and throw Old Glory away and go "Metrical" instead. Rest assured you don't and better not. Read that again. Now one more time. Hint.

I'll grant courteous assumptions that mounting systems are both Skookum and snugged,along with ammo being true. I don't even use any of my chronographs any more and am happy to trust erectors of repute and tend not to second guess how/where/why bullets land. I'm NOT an App Guy,but Ballistics AE steals the fhuqking show here and will save ALOTTA time,frustration and components. A Ballistic Engine is a Ballistic Engine,but AE is fhuqking intuitive,simple and fast. These are GOOD things. More on that,later. Hint.

Now don't have a Traitorous Fit,that incorporating the rather logical and unerring Base Ten properties of a Mil's lineal angular measurement subtention value,is anything but GREAT fhuqking news. Glass cited track,repeat and hold zero,which is the very crux of a Boolit Steering Device,yet AMAZINGLY overlooked by most. So there's no Fiddle Fhuqkery to convert a Base Ten Unit of measure,to something as fhuqking archaeic as inches,feet or yards,as applied to Boolit Flight/Steering. Simply grab an initial zero,wherever your heart tells you is "right",though most people are in a hurry to fhuqk that up too. For the sake of conversation,let's apply the crux to a 7-08 and 162 ELD at 2700fps. Sight height is 1.75(center of scope,above center of bore) 500' above sea level in an "average" atmosphere. For said configuration,a 200yd zero is familiar waters to me and yet again intuitive,as it requires a +.5 mil of 100yd height to realize. Hint.

[Linked Image from imagizer.imageshack.com]


Initial data to correlate same and simply use units applicable to your scope(1/10 Mil) and run ALL info in said accord. Fhuqk inches/feet/yards,as none of it applies,so there is NO "conversion". I'm obviously using JBM here,but AE is your Huckleberry as it's obviously portable and don't require service to function. More on that later. Hint.

[Linked Image from imagizer.imageshack.com]


It's hardly daunting to actually fhuqking shoot and beings you gotta look through a fhuqking scope,to do that,you may as well get something out of it. I'll use a 10x MQ Schematic to pinpoint,pinpointing. "Tick" marks are half Mil,Diamonds are whole Mil. A FFP Variable's values don't change with zoom ratio,in regards to it's scale. I LOVE LRTSi's,but this schematic breaks things down nicely. A Mil is a Mil,is a Mil. Hint.

[Linked Image from imagizer.imageshack.com]

So now we have sound initial Data(which becomes DOPE after ascertaining any/all corrections),a good mounting system,a sound rifle,happy ammo and a killer fhuqking scope. Time to get serious. Because we're Starting at The Fhuqking Start,it's time to pull the bolt,gawk down the spout and boresight at 25yds. Sure...I'm certainly good enough to start at 100yds,but there's no need to get greedy,with Training Wheels on. Slide bolt back in receiver and fire the initial shot. It really don't make a Flying Fhuqk where it lands,but it will assuredly be on 25yd paper. Now because our reticle is First Focal Plane(FFP),it makes zero fhuqks where the zoom magnification is set,though parallax will bite you. One simply uses the reticle you already done did look through,to extrapolate the bullet hole's relation to the aiming point. With FFP,a Mil is a Mil,is a fhuqking Mil and unerring in it's lineal angular subtention value and accuracy. Let's say it's 1.1 Mil's low and .8 Mil's right. How do you KNOW that? Because the reticle is never not THE Ruler. Adjust in kind and be AMAZED that you've a rough zero,with the very FIRST fhuqking shot. There's no need to fhuqk around at 25yds for a second shot,because said scope tracks,repeats and holds fhuqking zero. Liberating,ain't it?!? Hint. Fhuqking LAUGHING!

Now simply shoot the second shot at 100yds and incorporate The Ruler,if only as per ALWAYS. Correct if requisite,to align being a half Mil high at said distance,which yields the predetermined 200yd zero. Do whatever it takes in round count to get warm/fuzzy,but 100yd paper don't much interest me,so I tend to cut to the chase and immediately go lonngggggggg. Once there with your confirmed Zero,index the turrets to Zero and set the Zero stop if applicable. You are there. Hint.

For me,I'm now perhaps (3) shots into a new rifle/scope combo and looking to turn forecast trajectory Data,into DOPE(Data Of Previous Engagement(s)). I like steel,because it's easy to see/hear what's going on and low maintenance. My opening move is gonna be at 1000-ish yds,the exact distance really not making a fhuqk,as long as I can determine same and apply it to come-ups. Because round numbers are nice,in order to align 1000yd POA(Point Of Aim)/POI(Point Of Impact) correlations,JBM tells me I need to add 8.6 Mil's of erector travel(height). It'll take about 3-seconds to spin to 8.5 and add a "click",to align 8.6. Then shoot,call the shot and critique as required. If there is a discrepency,don't have a fhuqking freak out,because we didn't even use a chronograph and simply entered a nice round velocity number of 2700fps. If you impact high,it's because actual is faster than same. If you are low,it's due to the opposite(slower). This is where Ballistics AE kicks in. Let's say I'm +.3 Mil's high,because that is what THE Ruler(reticle) is yelling at me and beyond refute. I can denote that impact correction within the velocity header and recalculate the flight curve. It will now tell me the corrected velocity and that only 8.3 Mil's were required at said distance,because Boolits don't/can't lie,if within their Supersonic window. Schit can get weird on the Transonic Slip,so NEVER try to prove come-ups beyond same and crossing both barriers(Super/Transonic). I tend to toss myself a 50yd comfort window,in the proposed atmosphere,to quantify same. Proven DOPE goes in Ocular caps and upon buttstocks. Hint.

With proven DOPE,I'm in a Dirty Good place. Everything from the muzzle,to the Transonic Slip is mine and as per whim,regarding gravity. Wind is always factored in Base Ten(10mph full value/right angle) impetus and can easily be broken down,due it's direction and velocity. Wind is lineal at a given distance and thus a breeze. Pun be intended. Hint.

750yd shot on a meandering Coyote? Dump 5.1 Mil's in the erector and slide horizontal reticle to just shy of 7 Mil's(Base Ten lead factored at 10mph too) and mash the fhuqking trigger. Return to zero on erector and keep chooglin'. Hint.

3-12x LRTSi for real. Hint.

[Linked Image from imagizer.imageshack.com]
[Linked Image from imagizer.imageshack.com]
[Linked Image from imagizer.imageshack.com]

I'll let this marinate and delve deeper,as the queries mount. Hint......................

That's about the best primer for shooting distance that I've seen.


Originally Posted by Geno67
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual.
Originally Posted by Judman
Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit.
Originally Posted by KSMITH
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That's about the best primer for shooting distance that I've seen.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
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Originally Posted by Deans
I now have 3 FFP MIL riflescopes and have researched some and at times the learning curve is a bit confusing. Also purchased a mil dot master awhile back and still learning how to use it.

So are there any websites that can explain MIL's to an old dog trying to learn a new trick?

Thanks

Deans

Just me being a knuckle dragger, but a good mil reticle/mil dial is very easy to learn. If you can, put it on a 22, 223, something easy to shoot alot of rounds out of. Put your ammo into any decent ballistic calculator and zero it, then just follow the chart. I think after 20 rounds shooting out as far as you can on an accurate rifle will tell you more than any of us can explain in words. I don't convert or monkey around with anything with a mil/mil scope. I just shoot and watch impacts, I use the reticle to see where I hit, slide the reticle or adjust the dial and you're full on running. They are danged near Marine proof.

BS really lays it out easy as hell. Half an hour shooting it and you'll wonder where it's been all your life.

Last edited by beretzs; 06/01/22.

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Bump.

To save PM's.

Hint................


Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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