Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire Teachers get preliminary OK to carry weapons

From the Salt Lake Tribune -



The Jordan School Board gave preliminary approval Tuesday to a policy outlining the conditions under which district employees may carry a concealed weapon on school property with a valid permit.



Employees must keep the weapon concealed and employees who legally use a concealed weapon on school grounds do so in their individual capacities, not their scope of employment.



The Jordan board will formally vote on the policy at its July 16 meeting.



Both policies are in response to a law passed during the 2003 legislative session, Senate Bill 108, that harmonized conflicting parts of state code. One section allowed concealed weapons on school campuses, while another prohibited it.

I retired last year after spending 31 years with high school kids in the capacity of teacher, vice principal and principal.

Now I've seen a lot of change in the schools over this time concerning behavior, drugs, alcohol and guns. There was a time when students and staff would bring guns to school and nobody paid any attention unless they were hunters, then they'd want to look at and talk about it.

But society has changed along with some of the freedom it brought. There were only one or two times I worried about my safety when dealing with students and I worried more about it happening off campus than on.

The only people I ever felt like shooting were some dumb-ass parents who should never have been allowed to have kids in the first place. I strongly believe todays kids aren't any worse than my generation, but their parents are the ones that are totally screwed up.

After some of the high profile school shootings there was discussion about some staff member having access to firearms but it never went farther than discussion, although I felt there were some staff that did have one locked in their vehicle. There were some staff that I felt with proper training could handle the responsibilty while others just wanted to be Dirty Harry and scared the hell out of me.

I do believe that is school staff are to be armed they would have to go through some pretty tough training and have the mental requirements to go along with the physical capabilities.

I know I handled the problem by having a police liaison officer stationed in the building.

I'm not in favor of allowing any teacher to carry a concealed weapon while at work, just because they are called teachers, doesn't mean they're intellegent

I am a teacher and an avid gun toter, but this is one thing I'm totally against. Too many wingnuts teaching. If I carried a gun as a teacher it would be to defend myself against some whacked-out-over-stressed teacher not the students. It is a bad idea to arm teachers in my opinion at this point in time.

I'm an adminstrator at a community college and I'm against teachers or adminstrators carrying firearms too. I suspect that Jordan, Utah is extremely small and easily controllable. We'll see how it comes down.

I have just moved on from a gig as a teacher in an at-risk youth program. We had lots of gangbangers.

I wish I had been allowed to carry a gun at work, for sure. I got the creepy feeling that danger lurked on a regular basis.

But I agree with the others that I'm not sure I'd want to see some of my colleagues armed. Scary thought.

Rick

My only question is why should teachers be any different than the rest of us? They are human also.

It seems as though all they are saying is that IF a teacher has a valid CCW, he/she can carry the firearm on campus. If they use it, they are doing so an individual and NOT as an "armed employee." So they are not advocating arming teachers, simply addressing the issue of tachers who do have a valid CCW. I agree that not all teachers should be armed, but they have the same rights as the rest of us.

Well yes, teachers do have the same rights as the rest of us. However, what you may not understand is that just because you have a cwp, you are not entitled to carry wherever you want. There are some restrictions, as I am sure you can understand.....courthouses, airports, etc.

The majority of the responses here are negative against firearms... What's wrong with you people????

You're just as liberal as the anti's who say NO one should be permitted to carry. So it's a teacher,,,,, so what? With training, background checks and a permit, I say go for it... Maybe we wouldn't have had the Columbine nightmare.... Are you all saying you don't trust your compatriots? More people are killed with autos than guns... Maybe teachers should be banned from driving.... What a bunch of crap..


If schools and teachers had the same policies as when I was a kid, we wouldn't even have GANG trouble... Some kid gets out of line then, and the teacher takes the little DH outside for some 'attitude adjustment'.. Things were handled man to man then, NOW you do that, and the lawyers are all over you...

Ah, a breath of fresh air!

Oh no, I found myself in agreement with someone from California! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

I don't think they are talking about arming every teacher. Just removing a restriction on those teachers who have a concealed carry permit. As a teacher and a concealed carry permit holder I fail to see a problem with this. I work with two principals and four teachers who have carry permits and I would not have a problem with any of them having their handgun with them at school. I see no difference between there and any other public place.

Current State Law prohibits carry permit holders from caring on public school property. In my opinion all that does is turn school property into free fire zones for a crazy person. Who's going to be there, armed, to stop him? Who would stand between him and your child?

three brief points;

a) there is no such thing as a "valid" CCW permit. there are no valid laws which infringe upon our right to keep and bear arms..... employment contracts notwithstanding.....

b) concealed carry of firearms in an educational setting simply would not work as a practical matter..... ask those who are contractually required to carry weapons what they think of the concept.....

c) spiritual, mental and physical preparedness is the answer to violent crisis in our schools.... responsible citizens must become weapons to combat violence throughout society.... and a .38 won't help in the long run..... john w

We'll, I'm another teacher and if I had to make a sweeping edict, I'd vote against it.

1) Carrying it on my person, sooner or later I'd be "made", either the kids would spot it or feel it brushing up against me in a crowded hallway. Then I would never hear the end of it.

2) I would be more likely to lose possession of it than I would be to use it in a school building. Far more likely than a shooting situation is me wading through a crowd to break up a fight, and then ending up on the floor with a kid or two in the process of breaking up that fight. Unless my gun were very well concealed and/holstered it is liable to go spinning off across the floor, or to be lifted by a dexterous hand in the crowd.

3) We have more than 3,000 kids in our school, and more than 150 staff, heck _I_ don't know all the teachers. If I were to draw a firearm in a crisis situation I might well be viewed by many kids and staff as the source of the problem, adding to the confusion.

4) Our hallways are always crowded, in the case of a SHTF scenario I probably wouldn't get a clear shot, and be as likely to hit a kid as I would the perp. Our builidng materials too are either wallboard (through and through) or brick and cinderblock (ricochets).

5) Near as I can tell the best solution is uniformed police officers on campus, armed, in the hire of the district. Plus an efficient communication/surviellance system within the school. IMHO delinquent kids are far less likely to try and pull stuff if the know they'll be seen and draw a quick response by armed LEO's. In a panic situation, everyone would know who that guy in the blue uniform with a gun is.

I am aware of that Assistant Principal who stopped an incident in progress with a .45 retreived from his truck. I do wonder though just how many handguns would get ripped off by delinquent juveniles if keeping firearms in vehicles on campus were the norm.

BW

Or what if all the unconstitutional gun laws were repealed. Then everyone would know that no gang/thug behaviour would be tolerated. An armed society is a polite society. It did used to be that way. I took my rifle to school and stood it in office with two others and got it back after school and went to the woods. We had no intention of shooting anything but game. What happened? Bob

I misunderstood and thought they were mandating that teachers carry guns. I think every teacher who wants to should be able to, and those who don't should be able to refrain. Kalifornia is a strange place, folks. When I showed up at LAX with a rifle to go to Alaska, the lady behind the counter about peed her pants. She could not fathom that flying with a firearm was possible, much less legal. On the sage advice of a friend, I had printed copies of the airline's regulations, plus the name and number of the airline rep who knew the policy, ready to go.

Hell, in Texas, you'd get into an argument about whether you were taking the right caliber.

Some of these folks should NOT be armed absent some serious training.

Rick

I do agree with the required trainning. The background check we have in Texas even requires you to give consent for them to open your juvenile records. Hell, everybody here carries a gun. If you break into any pickup truck in the Walmart parking lot the odds are you can find a gun. And if you don't it's only because the guy has it on him. I feel much more comfortable around those who have gone through the training. At least you know they are law-abiding people.

PDS,I must respectfuly disagree. A juvenile record does not tell you what a person has become later in life. Besides the second amendment does not say anything about being allowed to be armed at the whim of a govt. employee. It is a right granted by the creator. Training should be what I believe your sons are learning from you. Safety and respect for human life.
No one really learns to shoot in a class run by beauracrats. It is a way of life. Most of the guns at Wally World would be long guns in my experience. So what? How many of those have been used in a crime? None I say. I don't carry a pistol but a carbine in .357 Mag. It is legal without a permit from some [bleep] who can't shoot as well as I or have as much respect for human life as I have. This is not a flame, just a difference in opinion. Bob

An acquaintance had a similar experience. He was flying from San Francisco to Seattle for a pistol class. He had two pistols in a case. On the way up, he said the clerk looked at him as if he'd tried to declare a rattlesnake.

On the way back from Seattle, the exchange went like this:

"Good morning, I need to declare two handguns."

"OK, sir, are they unloaded?"

"Yes."

"Are they in a locked case?"

"Yes."

"Are they clean?"

He gave her a puzzled look ... she winked and handed him the orange tag to sign, and his boarding pass.


John

Hey BW, good to see you here, this is one of the friendlier places on the net, trust me. A great big campfire WELCOME!

I agree with you about the juvenile thing, My point was; that's how thoroughly they check you out when you apply for a carry permit.

I also agree with you about the need for a permit in the first place. I believe the constution gives us the legal right to keep and carry arms. I did carry before I had a permit for that reason. I got the permit so I would feel more comfortable about it and so I could carry a larger handgun without fear of a trained LEO spotting that.

I agree that shooting skills and respect for safety and life are learned before you take a carry course. However, I learned much in my class about the legal issues and legal consequences of carring a firearm that I did not know prior to. They didn't teach me a thing about shooting. I knew that before the class. They were just testing me to see that I did.

I trained to shoot and carry a handgun for all the same reasons I was trained in Tae Kwon Do. I don't go around looking for a fight, in fact my trainning has taught me to watch for and avoid sittuations where that could happen.

I like the carry permits for one reason if no other: The bad guys do not know who may be armed. I've found that a little show of confidence and lack of fear on your part goes a long way in preventing problems from developing.