Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Ok. Now please tell me about the 300 wsm…

Ok thank you all for the conversations on the .260 rem.
I have also wandered into a 300 Winchester short magnum, on an ultralight platform. I have course I’ve done lots of reading and research and so far what I can tell is that it is basically a 300 Winchester magnum shortened up to fit short action rifles.

I have sworn off getting tied up in the “hype” of the wsm craze in the past… never was a glutton for punishment regarding recoil and never really needed anything bigger than a 270 Winchester for west Texas whitetails mule deer and hogs, but this one has me curious. It looks like you can buy custom loads 125 gr on up. And also it sounds like some long-range shooters/hunters use this round for thousand yards plus.

I had one person compare 150 grain 300wsm to a 358 Winchester and the one time I shot one of those it was quite pleasant. Anyway, seems like this round is more of a “big game hunting round” Elk, moose, bear, etc. but it might be fun to take out hunting mule deer and hogs from time to time.

Anyway, just wondering if you guys had anything to add about this round?

Dave

Ballistically it's a 300 H&H, rather than a 300 Winchester magnum.

I have one. Bought it primarily due to low price in a Winchester Super Grade. Took one moose with it at 300 yards (lasered), dropped it where it stood.

To me the recoil was similar to my .338 Winchester which has a muzzle brake. Nicely accurate without any tweaking. More than needed for deer sized game.

Jim

Upon a cursory look at data, you can even load it to 30-06 range if you want.

That’s kind of what I was thinking from what I was reading, you can load it down to 30 O6 And even then it’s probably more than I will ever use here in west Texas, but it might be fun to play around with for a little while? And maybe give me an excuse to go north to shoot something bigger

Ballistically exactly the same as the 300 H&H. And a pile of pressure tested data to go with that statement. If you are hunting, assume it does the same as its older sibling.
Charlie

Charlie,

I remember the John Barsness article where it was told how you chambered the very same barrel to both cartridges and arrived at this result.

CharlieSisk;
Top of the morning to you sir, I hope the day's been behaving for you and you're well.

I don't believe I've never thanked you for your contributions here, in this instance specifically working with John Barsness in the .300 H&H/.300WSM project which John wrote up.

Around that time there were some interesting claims being made by different folks regarding "magic case shapes" which just didn't make sense to me but with my lack of training I couldn't articulate why that was.

When John's article came out I read it multiple times, each time absorbing a wee bit more of what you'd found in the experiment. If I'm not wrong your comment about it raising more questions than answers made me smile too as that seems to be my experience whenever I go down rabbit holes in life in all sorts of areas.

Thanks again and all the best.

Dwayne

Love my 300wsm, been shooting it for many years now.
Heck I took a blue grouse with it one year, head shot and the meat was fine.
Great pronghorn rifle, have taken many hogs with it too.
I have also taken cow bison, moose and elk with it in addition to the elk and deer every year.

I find recoil to be no problem, my handloads are on the hot side but not quite max.

Nice flat shooting if loaded with the right bullets, I load 165-168 gr bonded bullets. Spouse shoots one also and loads up 180 gr accubonds.
150 gr bullets would be interesting loaded out towards max.

I shoot a Sako A7 and love the shorter throw on the bolt and the short action helps with weight.

For sure. All peas in the same pod mostly depending on the gun.

I really liked RL15 or Varget with 165's at 2950-3050... Easy to shoot and plenty effective for stuff..

It's short and it's fat. There's not much else to say. If you find short and fat to be appealing, there you go. It is a waste of energy to hate on a cartridge but I find it easy to hate on the WSM's. It might just be prejudice talking. GD

A friend at work asked me about the 300WSM the other day. I said it was a short and dumpy version of the 300H&H.

He likes short actions. I said that extra 1/2" was a killer.

The brass forms into 7 WSM pretty nice like.

Yup, and easly forms up to 8mm, which I had done a year before Winchester came out with the .325 WSM.

I do that too, although mine is a factory 70. Eventually I'll burn out the barrel and turn it into another 7.

It has a reputation for accuracy, which helps. It will kick harder than a 30-06 so I'd avoid it in a true ultralight, but it should be OK in a rifle that weighs 8 pounds loaded and scoped.


Okie John

That is my feeling also, yet I own a couple 350 Rem Mag's. The only reason for me to own such a thing is that I wanted a carbine with power.

Of all the short fat cartridges the 300 WSM is the likely one of the most successful, if not the most. I prefer the 300H&H.

MMM What steps do you take forming 7 WSM from 300 WSM ? False Shoulder ?
How much neck shrinkage is the result ? Genuinely curious.

I recall one of the writers ( JRS) chambered a 7x300 WSM in anticipation, but Winchester did something different, of course, and moved the shoulder forward, so you couldn’t accidentally chamber a 7 mm round in the 270 WSM.

That’s what I do.

Jordan, 3M : how much does the neck length shrink ?
I always wondered about that aspect of the 7mm WSM. Maybe just Loony Over-Obsessing

Beat me too it.

So A 6 pound Forbes rifle Might be difficult?

Lively I'm sure, but the level of difficulty depends on how well the stock geometry suits you.

Nobody says you have to load it full throttle either.

Mathman,

that’s what I’m thinking as well. Found a place that does custom loads all the way down to 125 grains. That might be kind of fun! And maybe some 150 grain as well. Seems like there’s a wide range of Options to run through this thing.

If you are thinking about 300 WSM in one of Melvin's rifles you will need a Model 28 short action. Forbes were only manufactured with Model 20 and Model 24 actions.

Not a handloader I see.

How do these custom loads places work? Do they use your rifle for load development? Do they have a data bank of loads that have worked pretty well in many rifles? Do you tell them what to load?

Yes sir, my apologies, this is a secondhand ultralight arms rifle.

I don't own any ultra light rifles but I imagine based on my experience with my Super Grade that you would have to be very recoil tolerant to enjoy shooting an ultra light in this caliber.

Jim

My first experience with a New Ultra Light Arms rifle a little over 30 years ago was a Model 28 in .300 Winchester Magnum--the first .300 WM I ever shot or used to take big game. With a 2-7x Bausch & Lomb Compact in Melvin's rings, it weighed a little under under 7 pounds, and shot three different bullets--the 165 Hornady Interlock, 180 Speer Grand Slam and 200-grain Nosler Partitions--into a composite 9-shot group of around an inch at 100 yards.

I didn't find it the recoil all that bad, even from the bench, but his stocks fit me well and I was 38 years old. Killed some game with it that fall using the 200 Partition load, and offered to buy it, but it was one of the rifles Melvin sent to various gun writers for testing--and he said no.

Thirty years later recoil doesn't feel quite the same--but more importantly I found a .300 Winchester Magnum wasn't nearly as "necessary" for certain kinds of big game as many hunters think, and I've taken a bunch of big game in both North America and Africa with the several .300 WMs I've owned since.

Might also mention that I've taken big game with several .300 WSMs--one before it was formally introduced. The animals varied from pronghorns at ranges out to nearly 400 yards, to a 6x7 bull elk shot at 100 yards in thick timber. It worked very well, but can't say it worked any better than a .30-06 with similar bullets--except for shooting a little flatter at longer ranges.

In general, they're easy to get to shoot well. But one of the big reasons I sold my last one a year ago was brass started to become harder to find compared to .30-06 and .300 Winchester cases.

I had one for a while and liked it. Mine was a late production SS Winchester 70 set in a McMillan Edge stock. But I came to the conclusion that my 308 was as much gun as I'd ever need, and I have two older 30-06 rifles with too much history to sell that I could use if I ever felt the need for more power. Comparing it to a 300 H&H is about right, but you can have it in a short 308 length action instead of a long or magnum action. It's easier to put together a lighter weight rig with 300 WSM than 300 H&H, 300 WM or even 30-06. Most manufacturers seemed to have missed that point though.

I was getting 50-75 fps less speed than 300 WM while burning 10-15 gr less powder. That basically split the difference between 300 WM and 30-06 when I ran the numbers through a recoil calculator. My shoulder agreed. If I wanted near 300 WM performance in a lighter weight rig 300 WSM is the way I'd go.

I had one of the Colt Light Rifles in 300 WM briefly. That is basically a cheaper version of the Forbes rifle and IIRC mine was at or maybe a little less than 7 lbs scoped. That was just a little too much of a good thing for me. I didn't keep that one long.

The 7 WSM has a neck that is 0.054” shorter than that of the .300 WSM.

Exactly, load to 30-06 velocity, go hunting

I have had a 300 wsm for about 15 years. Its a win. mod 70. It shoots good. I have killed 2 elk, about a dozen WT Deer and as many hogs with it. Mostly use 180gr Nosler partitions. If you do your part and put the bullet in the right spot they usually drop where they stand. I like the 300wsm, but I don't see any more Elk hunts in my future. lately I find myself grabbing a lighter 270 when I go deer hunting.

Look at the cost & availability of brass before you jump my .02

*most definitely not a gun writer

Exactly. The last part exceedingly true, because you know someone's going to be crying about the H&H being a long action and the WSM is magical because its a short action.

Thanks, I was thinking it would end up much shorter when starting with 300 WSM brass.
That extra case body volume has to come from somewhere. Hence my question.
Thanks again. Good Shooting 😊

Then why use the .300 WSM? It's very rare to encounter a shortage of .30-06 brass, partly because so much already exists.

I run my 165’s at 3050 with H4350. It is very reliably repeatable. I really love that gun, Sako 85, with that load. Do not see any need for more speed.

With the right bullet, that'll kill any big game animal in North America.

It's also about 100 fps more than 165's can be safely loaded to in a .30-06 with a 24" barrel, using newer powders. 100 fps is about what a typical 165 spitzer loses in about 40 yards, give or take a few yards.

I just built a couple 300wsm rigs, one a win classic in an edge with a 21" proof stainless tube. It is a hair over 7# if I had to guess. It's quite lively to shoot, but not punishing....and it flat works.

The .300 Sav/308 Win, .30-06, and .300 Weatherby do everything expected from a .30 cal, the newest of which is circa 1952. Everything else is just filler and fluff.

Hold into the antiques.

Had a 300 WSM for several years, a "controlled round push feed" Winchester Model 70 Coyote. Goodness, that rifle was accurate. It was no lightweight with a porky laminate stock and what I think of as a "light varmint" contour barrel.

A 1,000 yard BR competitor gave me his load, built with H4350 and the 210 grain Berger VLD. It was routinely 1/2 MOA out at 600 yards. Never took it farther than that.

Liked the rifle & cartridge, but it didn't stick around. I happily went back to the 30-06 for most of my hunting.



Three shots, 100 yards:


Always liked that thing, but... it just wasn't getting used much.

Regards, Guy

How many short fat rounds will that NULA hold in the box? I seem to remember my buddy's 284 only held two down? I remember thinking it wasn't a lot of bullets for such an expensive rifle. Might not be remembering right.

Otherwise...everyone has already covered it, though I don't see why you have to handload for that round. In normal times, anyway, there is a ton of good factory ammo for the 300 WSM from 150gr to 180gr, plus a few slicker 195gr and 200gr offerings.

3; 2 in wsm/prc. Some other chamberings will do 4 with coaxing.

Same with the regular 300 win mag. For deer a 165 loaded to 2950-3050 is a sweet spot for accuracy and lower recoil. Mb

IMHO, the WSM cartridges, while having excellent ballistics, are not about "superior" ballistics. Instead, the WSM cartridges are about magnum ballistics in a smaller, lighter rifle. Meaning, when it comes to the .300 WSM, talking about how it doesn't shoot any faster than any other 30 cal magnum misses the point. Rather, a person should be talking about how how light and handy their hard hitting .300 WSM rifle is. The corollary being, if a person isn't looking for a light hunting rifle, the .300 WSM doesn't offer anything special; and, dropping a .300 WSM into a magnum action negates any benefit of the cartridge. Also worth noting is that a 30 cal. magnum in a light rifle, while not brutal, is not for the recoil-shy. And, also, the .300 WSM is more of a open-country cartridge. Again, JMHO.

I don't have much experience with the .300 WSM. First time was at the range. I was packing up ready to go home when this kid, well he might have been in his early 20's came up to me and asked if I would help him sight his rifle in. It was one of the Winchester M70s in the standard rifle, not the Featherweight. Nice rifle and it was easy to get sighted in. Then I had the kid shoot and made the final adjustments to get him spot on. Like I said nice rifle, accurate and I thought rather pleasant to shoot. I told him to save his empty brass because down the road he's going to want to reload that brass.

The second, and so far the last time it was to work up hand loads for my son in law's .300 WSM Featherweight. I really liked that rifle but decided that with five rifles chambered to the .300 Win. Mag., I saw no reason to own a WSM. His rifle was a bit picky on what it liked and the SIL didn't make it any easier by specifying he wanted to use a load given to him by a co-worker. I told him to leave the rifle with me and I'd do a work up to try and reach the load he wanted. I even had him buy the dies, powder, primers and bullets. Once fired brass he had plenty of. He wanted IMR4831 and the 165 gr. Nosler Ballistic Tip loaded as recommended by his friend. Took a few trips to the range before I had what he wanted. Thought I'd try a couple of 180 gr. loads as well just in case his "load" didn't work like he thought it should. His gun did not like 180 gr. bullets at all.

I liked the Featherweight version of the M70 .300 WSM but with four Ruger #1s in various configurations and a Winchester M70 Walmart Special I can't justify the cost of the WSM and setting up to reload for it.

The SIL came by and asked me to help him get the tools to do his own reloading and teach him how to do it. I guess I taught him right as he hasn't blown his damn fool head off yet. Knock on wood.
Paul B.