Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Handguns And before the 9mm there was the 38 Special

What's the point? Both are good cartridges

Never mind, I read the link

I guess it'll do when you forgot to bring the 9.

The original mangina cartridge.

What handguns have you killed grizzlies with?

Haha And, happy birthday, NVhntr.

Man, I bet the ol' boy that got grabbed up by his boot [bleep] himself. I know I would've.

My Grandad has a M10-? he bought new back in the late 60s. He used to tell me that the 38 Special was proven to be the most accurate handgun cartridge, that’s why all the bullseye shooters used it. He also told me that the big 158 RN was the ticket for heavy lifting with the 38, things like police work and big game hunting. He’d even killed a mule deer with one of those big 158s one time.

As I grew up and learned about handgun hunting and how nose shape affects terminal performance I couldn’t help but wonder about this deer he’d shot with a factory Winchester RN out of a 4” M&P. I asked my uncle who was present when the kill took place and it all made perfect sense after hearing the story.

Deer came out in a meadow around 30 yards away and was feeding. When it saw them it snapped to attention with it’s head up. At which point Grandad shot it a little left of center in the forehead! No wonder it dropped dead.

I've got an older Rossi snubgun (3") barrel that absolutely loves the 158LRN factory ammo. It shoots "K-38 good" with that stuff. I've used it on prairie dogs all the way out to 45 yards. It's pretty fun to shoot that little clunker.

I've also shot a 2" M36 with 158s all the way out to 100 yards and hit those little Miller pony bottles (with a witness, it was his revolver). He just shook his head and walked away..........

I bet he started packing something with a Lil more azz to it, after that day

This is as it may be, but if he isn't as lucky (or good) with the more potent cartridge, he did himself no favor.

I'm guessing you thought that made sense when you typed it.

Bullets....

But lucky is better than the alternative.

And now the 10mm is getting more attention

Even compact 10's are built with 14 rd mags

Be my choice if in big bear country hiking

Yep bullets matter.

It’s odd this thread hasn’t turned into 8 pages of the usual 3rd grader types name calling and BS, wow I am impressed 🤣

I love me some 38spl and 9mm my two favorites

And once again, while bigger don't hurt none, in the end placement is what wins the day.


Placement, placement, placement, all other considerations are superfluous. Hmm, that might make a good sig line...

LMAO

Bill Jordan said the .38 Special is the most powerful cartridge the average man could hope to master.
As a "fan" of magnum cartridges, I'd be disinclined to argue with him.
And remember, he said that back when the average man was a man - not the weak, fat and soft version we have now.

The argument here would be the mastered .38 Spl / 9mm vs the good enough 10mm or magnum...

Absolutely one of my fav. cartridges

Hmmmm, Bill said that?

Elmer Keith said that a fresh pineapple was the best toilet paper - it's on the internet so it must be true.

Lots of 9mm duty ammo these days is heavy for caliber and subsonic.

So yes, we have circled back to the .38 Special and for good reason.

Shooting 147’s out of my converted G35 is sweet.

Here in Virginia, it's an essentially illegal handgun hunting cartridge. Centerfire handguns here have to generate at least 350 ft/lbs of muzzle energy by the factory specs. I don't know of any, save one, factory .38 Spl round that has that kind of energy. Buffalo Bore makes a 158 gr LSWCHP +P load that makes 351 ft/lbs. That's a shame. I think it would make a dandy small game round. My GP100 will break stationary clay pidgeons at 50 yards with 130 gr FMJ Federal range loads. I want to use it for squirrels but centerfire handguns with less than 350 ft/lbs of energy are out for hunting here.

Viking: Shooting 147’s out of my converted G35 is sweet.




The only 9mm Handguns I have are "T" model BHP's. I wouldn't shoot the heavies without modifications. which I don't do. I shoot weird .38 bullets in my Model 52 also. I guess I'm fuq'd. Thank god for revolvers.

Yeah, I bought a Lone Wolf alpha conversion barrel, other than using a G17 magazine, no other mods.

Its been decades since I've owned a 9mm, but by far the best was a 92G Centurion. Great reliable pistol which, for some reason,, grouped at 50 yards like a bullseye gun. I was a dumbass for letting a cop buddy talk me out of it.

In the days before widely available ballistic gelatin, we used that Centurion and a 3" S&W to compare Federal's 115 grain 9BPLE load against their 125 grain JHP 357 Magnum. We used water jugs to catch the bullets at 5 and 50 yards. If we hadn't marked the jugs for each load, you would never have been able to tell the difference from the visible impact or the degree of fragmentation or expansion at either distance. I wouldn't have believed it if I didn't see it.

So yeah, even old .40+ guys like me have to admit a good 9mm, especially with todays ammo, is a real decent combination.

Sarge, did y’all test the 357 Sig much?

No sir Viking, I haven't.

10Glocks - can't use a .38 even for small game hunting? That sucks

To deprive a man of the simply joy of seeing a squirrel get punted off a high limb, by a 38 wadcutter, is downright inhuman.

10 Glocks is mistaken

Could he have be referring to deer season?

Idk if ND changed their rules, but a fella couldn’t use a 40 cal for deer.

So true! I’ll have to tell a little story… I was out scouting new spots last year and a target of opportunity squirrel came up. I shot him with a 158 Lrn at sharp angle. After passing through a squirrel the slug ricocheted off of a knot in the tree and then off of a branch and came right for me, passing within inches of me before hitting the ground. I was a bit disappointed I didn’t get hit.

The target load of a 148 gr. .38 wadcutter at about 750 fps from an accurate pistol is great on squirrels and rabbits.

The S&W Model 52 is one of those pistols.

Written and read pre internet.

Not legally.




That's what the law seems to say.


The above law makes no distiction between small and large game. It only states game birds and animals. According to the law, you may hunt with .22 caliber pistols for small game. If you step up above .22, it must be .23 caliber or larger AND generate at least 350 ft/lbs of enery. That leaves a gap in the legal use of pistols and revolvers. According to the law, a .38 special round generating 200 ft/bs of energy is an illegal pistol for any type of hunting except nusiance species.

And any pistol or revolver over .22 is illegal unless rifles over .22 are legal. There is no provision in the law for any pistols between .22 caliber, and pistols of .23 caliber or larger AND generating 350 ft/lbs.

It's dumb, but that's the law. And I confirmed it with a friend who is a hunter and a criminal defense attorney in northern Virginia. He's the one that pointed me to this law when I asked him if it would be legal to use a .44 magnum revolver for deer in a county that had an ordnance that says "No rifles for deer hunting." I also specifically asked if hunting with a pistol or revolver using a cartrtidge greater than .23 caliber and generating less that 350 ft/lbs is legal for small game and he told me the law isn't that ambiguous, and that paragraph G is the reason I probably don't want to chance it and argue my point in court.

I’d ask to see the game warden’s chronograph.

I can reach 350fp with a 173gr Keith in the 38 Special, but I like Thekid's reply better.

Virginia is a ridiculous patch work of local ordnances that control what you can use to hunt with. One county is no rifles for big game. The next county over may be no rifles for deer hunting. The next may be no rifles unless you are in a tree stand. The next no rifles based on where you are in the county while the rest rifles are allowed. It's absurd.

In years past, most people did not have anywhere near the amount of disposable income that so many people today have (which does not include me...). Even "gun people" didn't usually shoot nearly as much as many people do today. They simply couldn't. Ammo was not cheap. This is why there were often .22lr versions of full size belt pistols... because practicing with .38spl, .45acp, or anything else was pretty dang expensive. People usually simply weren't able to work up to the point where they thought that .357 Magnum was a pussycat, like so many do (or think they do) today. Everyone today has Magnumitis. This was not so in the past.

And I’m the opposite in that I have the time, the money, the place, the reloading stuff, and the guns to shoot all the time all year. And I do. But I hate the blast, noise, and recoil of hotrod magnums unless they’re absolutely necessary for the task at hand.

Same, and if the specials aren’t being shot the 357s/44s are usually dialed back anyways. The 38 special is one of my absolutely fav. cartridges.