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The stopped SOB should have been dragged out of the vehicle and been beat down. F these social justice warriors! The premise for the stop was flawed from the jump. Why is that so hard to understand? Odds of a Molon Labe bumper/window sticker on the vehicle of all the 'cooperate' crew? 80% or better I'd say. Ironical
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Campfire Regular
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The stopped SOB should have been dragged out of the vehicle and been beat down. F these social justice warriors! Wow.
"Full time night woman? I never could find no tracks on a woman's heart. I packed me a squaw for ten year, Pilgrim. Cheyenne, she were, and the meanest bitch that ever balled for beads."
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Lots of internet law experts here. Please post the year you passed the bar.
Medics bury their mistakes..
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Joined: Dec 2005
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The stopped SOB should have been dragged out of the vehicle and been beat down. F these social justice warriors! No, he should have never been stopped in the first place. There was absolutely no valid probable cause stated by the LEO.
Arcus Venator
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Campfire Ranger
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Lots of internet law experts here. Please post the year you passed the bar. Does one have to be a lawyer to know the Constitution and to know one’s rights…?
Every day on this side of the ground is a win.
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Well, now we know where Elkslayer is.
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Campfire Outfitter
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Meanwhile, a week later the same "gentleman" is being robbed and calls the police late in the evening. Dispatcher puts the call out to the police and they say, "Probably best to wait until tomorrow morning when we can have a supervisor present." LoL
Medics bury their mistakes..
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Joined: Apr 2017
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Meanwhile, a week later the same "gentleman" is being robbed and calls the police late in the evening. Dispatcher puts the call out to the police and they say, "Probably best to wait until tomorrow morning when we can have a supervisor present." LoL It sucks to live in Uvalde.
I'm here to increase my social credit score and rub elbows with some of the highest rollers on the internet.
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I’m really surprised that a Michigan State Trooper wasn’t better prepared to handle that situation. That’s got to be a practical evolution in every academy. It didn’t appear to me that he was very confident in his position. If he made a legal stop, he has all the authority he needs. If he didn’t, he needs to be retrained or held accountable if it involved misconduct.
I probably made 20,000 traffic stops in my career. Never, did I make one without reasonable suspicion. That’s what the law requires. Once I made the stop, the first thing I did was introduce myself and explain the reason for the stop. We were not going to debate or negotiate. How I was treated went a long way towards determining whether a person was cited for a traffic violation, given a written warning or arrested, if appropriate. Be decent to me and I’ll be polite, professional and understanding. Be a dick and you get what the law requires. 99 percent of the people I dealt with understood that.
Even if you are certain that you’re right, your chances of winning an argument alongside the road are very slim. Your signature on the summons is not an admission of guilt, but a promise to appear in court. I had occasion to deal with individuals such as this guy a couple dozen times. It’s part of the job. I never let them dictate how things were going to go. Anything that I have to do, or anything he had to do, was decided by the courts long before I made the stop.
Telling me to spit it out, or that I was dismissed, would not have worked in his favor. My traffic stops were filmed and recorded during my entire career. They will be retained for 99 years as Virginia law requires. There’s nothing on any of them that I’d be embarrassed to have seen publicly. All that said, seeing this video just reaffirms how happy I am that I retired 4 months ago. This is somebody else’s problem from now on.
I hope, for the sake of public safety, that young Trooper gets the retraining he clearly needs. If not, he will be a liability.
Deadlines and commitments, what to leave in, what to leave out...
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From what I saw, there was no probable cause to stop. Had the LEO actually stated something, he would have been 100% covered by law. Which my association with LEO over the years actually means nothing. Heard it stated many times. If I want to pull someone over, there is always a reason. Right or wrong that is the way it is. Years ago, had a deputy sheriff tell me he automatically pulled over anyone that looked young, if they were out after midnight. Asked him him about the justification and he laughed, said he just claimed every single one of them was weaving erratically if the reason for the stop became an issue. He probably kept quite a few drunk kids off the road, didn't make it right though.
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Joined: Feb 2015
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From what I saw, there was no probable cause to stop. Had the LEO actually stated something, he would have been 100% covered by law. Which my association with LEO over the years actually means nothing. Heard it stated many times. If I want to pull someone over, there is always a reason. Right or wrong that is the way it is. Years ago, had a deputy sheriff tell me he automatically pulled over anyone that looked young, if they were out after midnight. Asked him him about the justification and he laughed, said he just claimed every single one of them was weaving erratically if the reason for the stop became an issue. He probably kept quite a few drunk kids off the road, didn't make it right though. Lots of police do this. It is profiling. But acting suspicious is not a crime, and probable cause that a crime is, was, or is about to be committed must be present for police to detain you and demand identification. A police officer has no right to ID you if he does not have PROBABLE cause that a crime is, was, or is about to be committed by you. They can ask for it all they want but have no legal recourse if you refuse, as happened in the video.
~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~
3-7-77
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I would suggest some of the legal scholars here on the Fire, take the time to learn what the terms they use actually mean. To name a couple…Probable Cause. It’s required to make an arrest. Reasonable Suspicion, it’s required to detain someone or to make a traffic stop. From that, Probable Cause may be developed or further investigation may determine that you no longer have Reasonable Suspicion. The person is then free to leave. Google them!
Deadlines and commitments, what to leave in, what to leave out...
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Campfire Tracker
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Joined: Feb 2015
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I would suggest some of the legal scholars here on the Fire, take the time to learn what the terms they use actually mean. To name a couple…Probable Cause. It’s required to make an arrest. Reasonable Suspicion, it’s required to detain someone or to make a traffic stop. From that, Probable Cause may be developed or further investigation may determine that you no longer have Reasonable Suspicion. The person is then free to leave. Google them! Correct. I used the terms incorrectly but the premise remains.
~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~
3-7-77
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I always liked when I'd get the ole "what are you a lawyer?" when I would stand up for my rights or quote the law which is my due diligence as a citizen but they're sure quick as schitt to say that ignorance of the law is no excuse to break it, if I didn't know something that I did was unlawful. I bypassed a dangerous intersection one day by going through an adjacent parking lot and using an entrance/exit that was much safer, got pulled over and hassled by some cop that seemed to want to escalate everything at every word because it was apparently called "shortcutting" and was a city ordnance violation or something like that. I asked just how in the hell was the average citizen supposed to know that and asked if they send out mailers with all of the laws and ordnances to the residents AND anyone that may pass through. He about blew his top to that and thank God his superior walked up in time and told him to chill out and let me go. I have issue with flexing authority over victimless crimes.
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Joined: Nov 2015
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Campfire Regular
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I would suggest some of the legal scholars here on the Fire, take the time to learn what the terms they use actually mean. To name a couple…Probable Cause. It’s required to make an arrest. Reasonable Suspicion, it’s required to detain someone or to make a traffic stop. From that, Probable Cause may be developed or further investigation may determine that you no longer have Reasonable Suspicion. The person is then free to leave. Google them! Correct. I used the terms incorrectly but the premise remains. I appreciate you recognizing that. However, those terms have real meaning. Kind of similar to the difference between Rights versus Privileges. They may seem the same but there is a huge difference.
Deadlines and commitments, what to leave in, what to leave out...
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Posts: 42,928 Likes: 13
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 42,928 Likes: 13 |
Boy, most of you guys are trying to be a real rebel. Wonder if that guy would argue with the judge like that if he got pulled into court.
Those two cops need to get a little backbone... My father is law was a trooper in Minnesota for 33 years... I've rode in his cruiser with him multiple times.. he was mainly based way up north out of Hibbing area on the Iron Range. He was president of the state's patrolman's association the last 18 years of his 33 yr tenure. Every trooper knew Bill, he was 6 ft 8. Actually taller than the regs would allow.. but at 20 he joined the HWY patrol, and the National Guard... After a couple of weeks out of the Academy, he got activated to go do his basic training and AIT. He was gone 4 months, and his height grew 8 inches in that time, when he was 20. When he comes back, he was already on the Hwy Patrol so they couldn't fire him because he gained 8 inches while doing his military training. Due to his height, he was the only Troop in the State Patrol that had his own cruiser assigned, because they had to move the front seat back like 6 inches to accommodate his height. He was also the only trooper that couldn't transport an arrest in his cruiser, because the seat being so far back...
I knew you never really win an argument with an LEO. Being a wise ass buys you no brownie points. I have had few tickets in my life time, when I am still driving for business anywhere from 40 to 60K miles a year. Been pulled over, but being respectful and telling the troop to tell me exactly what he wants me to do, has normally been appreciated by the LEO...What I see that Troopers and cops have to deal with in what we call "the public".. personally I don't see how they have the patience for it. In fact I've had many times of the times I've been pulled over that the officer has thanked me for being cooperative, thanked me for my service if they notice something that indicates I am a veteran, and send me on my way, telling me to have a safe trip....
The guy in the car was just an [bleep] in my book. Any cop with a backbone would have told him its no problem. Call a tow truck, haul him in his car to impound, give him a night to sleep off his [bleep]... and let him present his case to the judge in the morning...
Sure there a few A Hole cops, in ratio, there is a boat load more A Holes in the General Public.
any LEOs on here, thank you for your service to your communities, in spite of the communities lack of appreciation for what you do...
The rest of you.. Flame away, but I stand behind the LEOs.. Most I've ever met have been very respectable guys...
and I've always been the type if they are threatened by some one armed, and I have quick access I'll back them up...
and yeah, I've done that several times in my life...an LEO or a Service Member.. I see no difference... they are serving the public and our nation. All your bloviating only means something IF the stop was a legitimate stop. The leo knew it wasn't. The driver knew it wasn't. You guys keep missing the point in your attempt to prove how much you love cops or how much you hate people that are a-holes while sticking up for themselves. I have gotten pulled over more than most. Have received tickets in over 10 states. Used to get pulled over 4 or 5 times for every ticket meaning I met a lot of officers on the side of the road. Pretty much every time he/she had a legal reason for stopping me. Only 1 time did a leo act stupid and I called her on it, rather directly but politely. I am not advocating challenging all cops. But when the cop actually engages in an illegal act in pulling you over for no reason, all your superfluous BS about how great cops as a whole are and how you should just give in goes right the hell out the door. So you maintain YOUR game plan would be to argue with the LEO? Well I support YOU doing that every time you get pulled over... when things don't turn out like you were expecting, remember it was YOUR fault and no one else's not even the cops.. You don't like the length of one of my posts, there is a simple alternative.. don't read the friggin thing... Pretty simple ain't it... Enjoy you conversation with LEO the next time you get pulled over.. and remember.. DON'T LET HIM GIVE YOU!!!! ANY CRAP.
"Minus the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the Country" Marion Barry, Mayor of Wash DC
“Owning guns is not a right. If it were a right, it would be in the Constitution.” ~Alexandria Ocasio Cortez
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Joined: Jan 2001
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 29,974 Likes: 11 |
he just claimed every single one of them was weaving erratically Got that once for a useless stop. My tracks were actually quite clear in the fresh snow behind me, and I had only traveled a block after pulling out of the lot. Actually, my tags were within 1 day of expiring and I suspect that was the real reason. It takes significant effort to weave around with a long bed F350 crew cab. Asked if I'd been drinking and I was on my way. He was a new town mounty. Near all of our local and state boys are really fine folks. Across about 60+ years of driving, I've found "yes sir - no sir" seems to work pretty well.
Last edited by 1minute; 09/02/22.
1Minute
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 42,928 Likes: 13 |
Boy, most of you guys are trying to be a real rebel. Wonder if that guy would argue with the judge like that if he got pulled into court.
Those two cops need to get a little backbone... My father is law was a trooper in Minnesota for 33 years... I've rode in his cruiser with him multiple times.. he was mainly based way up north out of Hibbing area on the Iron Range. He was president of the state's patrolman's association the last 18 years of his 33 yr tenure. Every trooper knew Bill, he was 6 ft 8. Actually taller than the regs would allow.. but at 20 he joined the HWY patrol, and the National Guard... After a couple of weeks out of the Academy, he got activated to go do his basic training and AIT. He was gone 4 months, and his height grew 8 inches in that time, when he was 20. When he comes back, he was already on the Hwy Patrol so they couldn't fire him because he gained 8 inches while doing his military training. Due to his height, he was the only Troop in the State Patrol that had his own cruiser assigned, because they had to move the front seat back like 6 inches to accommodate his height. He was also the only trooper that couldn't transport an arrest in his cruiser, because the seat being so far back...
I knew you never really win an argument with an LEO. Being a wise ass buys you no brownie points. I have had few tickets in my life time, when I am still driving for business anywhere from 40 to 60K miles a year. Been pulled over, but being respectful and telling the troop to tell me exactly what he wants me to do, has normally been appreciated by the LEO...What I see that Troopers and cops have to deal with in what we call "the public".. personally I don't see how they have the patience for it. In fact I've had many times of the times I've been pulled over that the officer has thanked me for being cooperative, thanked me for my service if they notice something that indicates I am a veteran, and send me on my way, telling me to have a safe trip....
The guy in the car was just an [bleep] in my book. Any cop with a backbone would have told him its no problem. Call a tow truck, haul him in his car to impound, give him a night to sleep off his [bleep]... and let him present his case to the judge in the morning...
Sure there a few A Hole cops, in ratio, there is a boat load more A Holes in the General Public.
any LEOs on here, thank you for your service to your communities, in spite of the communities lack of appreciation for what you do...
The rest of you.. Flame away, but I stand behind the LEOs.. Most I've ever met have been very respectable guys...
and I've always been the type if they are threatened by some one armed, and I have quick access I'll back them up...
and yeah, I've done that several times in my life...an LEO or a Service Member.. I see no difference... they are serving the public and our nation. Are you saying you support unlawful stops? And illegal activity by officers? Because having this parked car towed illegally would not be a good look. Yes, you can win arguments with highway patrol. I’ve done so twice. It’s amazing how differently they behave when being filmed. The last time I was pulled over was around 11 years ago. The officer pulled me over for speeding a whopping two miles an hour. He said that I looked uneasy and upset (I just left the hospital where my grandmother died 20 minutes earlier). He then demanded to search my truck. I refused his search. He proceeds to tell me he’s never had an innocent man refuse a search. My demeanor changed at this point. I tell him “I’ve never had an [bleep] cop ask to search me before, it’s a first for us both.” He then asks me to come to his cruiser, tells me “the K-9 unit is on its way”. I tell him he has fifteen minutes to charge me or I’m leaving. He continues to ask me questions. After twenty minutes I get up and go back to my truck. He flings his door open and starts yelling at me telling me I couldn’t go. I flipped him the bird and yell “Rodriguez, [bleep]” and drive away. Same trooper later got disciplined and later fired for stalking and harassment. My friend got pulled over by the same guy on his way to work at 0600. He was pulled over for speeding, again two MPH. He shined his light into the truck bed and saw a beer can crumbled up. He then told him he was under suspicion of DUI. He blew a 0.00, the trooper refused to accept that, put him in cuffs and hauled him to the county sheriff’s office for a blood draw. It was also negative. He then reluctantly released him. My friend asked how he was supposed to get back to his truck, to which the trooper told him to get a cab. Many cops are indeed jerks and they do operate outside the law. It shouldn’t be tolerated. NO, I saying pick your battles, when things are in your favor... they are NOT in your favor off the side of the road.... a little cooperation goes a long way...how many guys that are pulled over, think that is an opportunity to argue with an LEO, with the delusions they are going to prevail. Doesn't take a genius to figure that out. I respect the uniform and also respect what these gentlemen put up with daily. Being cooperative has always served me better, that trying to win an argument with a cop on the side of the road.. The times I have gotten a ticket, I have gone into court, and being reasonable and not acting like a victim, I've prevailed each time except about TWICE. You guys do it your way, and I'll do it my way. Mine has worked out WELL for me over the last 50 plus years...and I'm on the road 30 to 40,000 miles on the road annually, and in the past its been more like 50 to 60K annually. Even if the cop in an A Hole, I am still going to show him and his uniform the respect I think they deserve. Same way I respect an EMT or Paramedic ( of which I use to be both) or respect anyone who has put on a uniform and served our country....and yeah there are A Holes in those groups also.. but RESPECT and cooperation goes a lot further than being contrary with authority, whether they are right or wrong...I've been lucky enough to present myself in a way, that the judge saw it my way in most of the times I've been in front of them. do whatever works for you.. same to all the others on this thread.
"Minus the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the Country" Marion Barry, Mayor of Wash DC
“Owning guns is not a right. If it were a right, it would be in the Constitution.” ~Alexandria Ocasio Cortez
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 42,928 Likes: 13 |
The stopped SOB should have been dragged out of the vehicle and been beat down. F these social justice warriors! The premise for the stop was flawed from the jump. Why is that so hard to understand? it was evident as hell, that the guy was fresh out of State Trooper School.. and was an unsure of himself as possible... but why take that as an insult and get in an argument over it.. if the clown driving hadn't taken it as an invitation to argue with the cop, he would have been on his way, long before the 15 minutes he spent waiting for the kids "supervisor" to show up.. It wasn't his time.. it was him not being able to miss the opportunity, of his ego having to prove a cop was wrong...play stupid games and then complain about stupid consequences... I bet the driver LIVES to be pulled over to just show the Michigan Highway Patrol what a bad ass he is... This isn't about people's rights, the guy was 100% of proving a cop wrong, when the opportunity presented itself.. I'll bet since then, this guy has had his car impounded and been hauled off in cuffs in the back of a troopers Cruiser... The driver was an idiot. and the cop hadn't been on the streets long enough to be wet behind the ears...
"Minus the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the Country" Marion Barry, Mayor of Wash DC
“Owning guns is not a right. If it were a right, it would be in the Constitution.” ~Alexandria Ocasio Cortez
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