Home Forums Hunting & Shooting AR and Tactical Rifles DPMS AR15 DCM Barrel Problems

Jerry

Do you have another upper"? IE bolt? Swap carriers and see if it extracts. I have swapped extractors a number of times in some rifles, but thats never been the problem, save one time.

I really doubt its the extractor also. But one never knows.

Let us know how the test goes, Its always educational to see it out to the end if you can.

Jeff

Jerry,

I think you will have more luck with a CWS. Next match you go to ask around and I bet someone will break open their rifle and let you try it. The thing is easier to swap out than pulling a bolt carrier out and you won't have to pull the front sight and goof up your zero. If your lucky they will have both the weights you can try.

In my experience, most of the time that they rip the rims off, it means the gun is over gassed and no extractor swapping in the world will fix that. Sorry you got the run around from them. It's par for the course for most all of the places you can buy stuff.

B

bpm990d:

Thanks for the advice. I am not familiar with the CWS, can you give me a little more info. As I mentioned earlier, if the barrel is accurate, which it has shown at times, and I can get it regulated some how, I will keep and shoot it, although with a bad taste in my mouth for DPMS. And I guess I will have earned quite a lot of experience, while not exactly what I had in mind, not all bad.

Thanks

Jerry

It's just a metal tube with two flanges. The one at the top rests against the end of the bolt carrier, and the one at the bottom allows one of the two weight to be secured in it. It just slips into it and is held in place by the buffer tube. It's pretty simple. My AR is overgassed and I have the heavy weight in it. The brass use to come out with some rim lifts, but now it's perfect. I bet someone has one in their gun where you shoot and will let you try it.

B

bpm990d:
Thanks for your imput I looked it up with the link you sent. If my tests work out, once I removethe gas tube, then I will go to your suggestion.

Thanx

Jerry

Carrier weights have been made too... Just google Tubb Carrier Weight system, it might show a photo.... M16 carrier as suggested earlier could be enough additional weight if you have access.... I run them in a few NTIT uppers for a reason...

Jeff

Jerry;
I for one am not happy with the service you got.
Okay, put on another extractor and try that. I seriously doubt that is the problem but do it anyway. Why didn't they do it and try it? Never test fired it, WRONG! Then to say it wasn't a DPMS bolt and carrier, OH BOY!
Do try firing it without the gas tube and see what happens.
If you find no problem extracting fired rounds with the charging handle, then move the front sight tower forward about .010" to choke off some of the gas. I still don't think that you have too large gas port. If you have a numbered drill set, move the tower forward on the barrel and measure it.
All in all though, it is plain to see that their customer service stinks! I have never had a problem with them but I have only bought several barrels with their name on them for my friends and myself. They may have different shops doing their barrel work but as for me, their barrels have been great, no problems or issues!
As for their other parts, I don't care for their triggers, they suck almost as bad as a standard GI and their rear sights are all cocked to the left just like the gun show/shotgun news vendors. These are not nit picking issues when it comes to NM competition rifles. Those are the only AR's I deal with. That is why I say go with RRA.
Keep me posted. I'm really interested in your problem. If it is their problem, I'll take your word as being honest and believe me, I'll beat my keyboard to death on their service. Ha, never even test fired the rifle. Their going to pay for that one!

Dave McGrath

Jerry;
I'm still not done posting. Had to eat dinner and got in a hurry.

In fact, I'm a little upset over what I read here today. This isn't a problem dealing with rocket science. Hell, it's a simple AR!

Now, in any small shop or in the case of "DPMS" the way to handle this whole problem would be first to check out the assembly of the upper. Then exam the parts. If, as their smith says, the extractor is broken, they should have replaced it and test fired it. Then sent it back stating so, to included the words "have a nice day"! Thanks for buying our product! That's my opinion and that's the way any business should have handled your problem.

In my experience I have seen about every type bolt carrier there is for an A2 upper and have used them on many A2 barrel/bolt combos. Never have I come across a problem needing a carrier weight. Now if you were shooting a space gun with a 24 inch barrel with the gas port at the same location as an A2, then maybe you need a carrier weight. However your light loads with the medium burning rate powders that you are using, there shouldn't be any problem with the carrier regardless of the barrel length.

Through my dealings with AR shops over the past 14-15 years, I know of a few trusted shooting friends, as to how badly they were treated and even talked too over the phone. I will not give those shops "any" endorsements on the range or on the internet shooting forums (believe me, I get around and I'm not bashful, note my name is attached to all of my posts) until a time when they have taken care of past service problems and apologies are given. That's just good business and the customer is always right. Sometimes a business owner or customer rep has to grit his teeth but it pays off in the long run!

Again, keep us informed. Good luck!

Dave McGrath

Dave:

Thanks for the kind words. I don't think I have been asking DPMS for anything more than to help me make "THEIR" part work properly. As I said, if it dosen't work out, I will send it back to them, and they can keep the money I paid for it. Then we can let all the AR shooters know what DPMS' stand is in regards to us. Shane talking about a new extractor, what a crock. The barrel has only had 278 rounds thru it, and I already replaced the extractor and spring half way thru all that shooting. These type of things should not happen, and just because I reload, dosen't mean I am ignorant, or inexperienced.

I'll let you know how it works out.

Thanks Again

Jerry

Jerry;
Try some factory rounds and a few of another shooter's rounds too. Just to totally rule out anything DPMS could screw with you on, borrow/try a different carrier too. They blew you off for reasons like "It's not a DPMS carrier or bolt" or it's a bad extractor. How long have they had it now to make that decision?
I would think it is possible that an extractor could go bad or you could have bought one a bit out of spec but change it out with a friends or buy a new one from RRA. Ha, here you go, tell them you will BUY one of their's since yours is at "fault"!
If they still have the upper, it would be in their best interest to at least try to help you out! A minor problem, which I'm sure it is, should be delt with professionally. After all, DPMS smith's are "professionals", right?
Wish I could help you out. Sorry we are many miles apart.

Dave McGrath

Jerry;
Try some factory rounds and a few of another shooter's rounds too. Just to totally rule out anything DPMS could screw with you on, borrow/try a different carrier too. They blew you off for reasons like "It's not a DPMS carrier or bolt" or it's a bad extractor. How long have they had it now to make that decision?
I would think it is possible that an extractor could go bad or you could have bought one a bit out of spec but change it out with a friends or buy a new one from RRA. Ha, here you go, tell them you will BUY one of their's since yours is at "fault"!
If they still have the upper, it would be in their best interest to at least try to help you out! A minor problem, which I'm sure it is, should be delt with professionally. After all, DPMS smith's are "professionals", right?
Wish I could help you out. Sorry we are many miles apart.

Dave McGrath

Jerry/Dave

An extractor CAN go bad in one shot. Though its very rare. For the issues you are having, replace it with new, but don't toss the old one. If the problem is solved, toss the old one, but if the same, then both extractors are good.

It takes just one bad stuck case, and an extractor not quite in spec or hardened enough to roll the edge.

I'm still different that you on the gas though Dave. I've seen it in more than one gun that a weight has solved issues. Just had not recalled that when this thread started.

Companies, RRA included, that are mass producers/sellers of AR barrels always go large ports, just to be on the safe side. By large I mean spec ports or larger if you are accuracy speaks.... Thats the wrong way to look at it IMHO. We aren't shooting ball 55s that much anymore.

Jeff

Jeff;
We need to establish what diameter a gas port should be, then go from there. Meaning what is industry standard and what is custom for those that use exotic powders like VV540 etc.. Jerry is using common medium burning rate powders and light loads. If he were to have any problem, he should have less port pressure with his loads causing short stroking.
Jerry's problem was common in the M1 rifle when a hand loader used a case full of slow burning powders like 4831 or 4350 which also wrecked the op-rod.
Now I have seen different type bolt carriers when changing barrels. The barrels I have used came from Wilson, Douglas and Kreiger machined by WOA, CLE, RRA, DPMS and a couple other clone dealers such as Sherluk and M&A. Some carriers have more "meat" on them making them heavier but none, not a single one ever came back with a problem. Most shooters I know including myself use 4895, Varget or RE-15. Some like ball powders from TAC or Hodgdon like H-335. An industry "standard" gas port diameter, whatever that may be, will not cause a problem such as Jerry's "unless" in fact the shop that made Jerry's barrel deviated from standard for whatever reason. If that is the case, rest assured, there are many barrels that will also have this problem. If that is the case DPMS needs to take that up with their supplier and make good on it rather than dance around an issue that will hurt them bad in sales now and forever more! After all, their name is on it and if they don't make good on it, shame on them!

On weighted bolt carriers. I know they exist. They are best suited for the non custom longer barreled AR space guns with the gas port the same diameter and in the same location as an A2 barrel. On a 24" space gun/varmint barrel, the bullet hasn't exited the barrel before the bolt has come out of battery causing problems. The heavier carrier slows the action enough until the bullet has cleared the muzzle. These weighted carriers on A2 rifles, IMHO are simply another "gimmick" like molly coated bullets that Tubb endorsed, collecting royalties. Fact is, these "gimmicks" won't hurt you but did you really need it? After many bought into them, most came to realize they didn't!

Lets see what DPMS does for Jerry. I honestly believe Jerry will give them a fair shake by trying anothers ammo, purchase a extractor from DPMS, since they said he needed one, that way they can select a "good one" for him and if all that fails, try another bolt carrier from another rifle.
I wish he were local, I would love to tackle this problem and deal with DPMS first hand, especially after the way he was treated over the phone. Well so far that is!
Ha! They didn't even test fire his rifle. I can't get over that fact since he was told to send his upper to them! Wow, that's one for the record!

Dave McGrath

Dave,

Irregardless if the rifle is a Match Rifle or a Service Rifle; they are not a gimmick if the gun is overgassed. It's an easy way to increase the dwell time of the bolt carrier. It can be adjusted by simply adding or removing weights and it is a lot easier to test it to see if it works than replacing the gas tube with an adjustable one or venting the gas tube.

B

Derrick espoused the use of 090 or 099 IIRC... which is over the old standard.... there is no standard that I'm aware of.

My ports are whatever John uses, knowing that I shoot 69-90s. It runs fine with 52s though too.... Point is rethinking the port size might help, but still afraid that companies are more worried about function than brass life. As most are just weekend blasters.

You know I don't shoot N540 much..... I generally shoot a generic WC852 ball powder, Pats in OH, 200 pound keg.... So I'm working with smaller ports and "standard" powder about 90% of my shots.

Jeff

Got the upper back today, with a letter explaining, it's not their bolt, or carrier, and it needs a new extractor. The extractor, I guarantee is ok. I will pull the tube, go to the range, and let you know the results.

Thanks

Jerry

Jerry;
Thanks for keeping us posted. I can't get over the poor service you got from DPMS. Anyway, it seems to be the norm from the AR folks today execpt for RRA.
If it needed an extractor, why didn't they "sell" you a DPMS extractor? I'll bet there is a difference in extractors too not being "their's"! Why did they tell you to send them the upper? Why didn't they install a DPMS extractor and test fire it? These are the questions I would have asked.
Having said it's not their bolt and carrier is being chicken $hit!

Dave McGrath

I can't answer the questions you guys have asked in regards to DPMS, but I have a couple more facts and thoughts, that will add to the conondrum. This morning, I removed the gastube, and fired "ONE" shot out in the backyard. The case was easily removed from the chamber with the operating handel. Also the primer was dented in, not flat. Not much of a test, but something. Also when I went to run a patch down the barrel, it came out pretty dirty, I was surprised, because when I sent it to DPMS, it was perfectly clean. Did they in fact shoot it? Also it is much cooler here now, than in August and September, another thought, LOL! I'll shoot it some more and keep you all posted.


Jerry

Bolt carrier weight or adjustable gas tube. Your port is too big....

What powder were you shooting when it was hot? 4895 IIRC, but it was not a warm load either... had it been 2520 or 748 I'd might agree temp has something to do with it.... In the future if you are uncertain if its temps, just ice your ammo down and shoot it cool, if fine, then its just a temp thing, and too hot of a load for the temps...
Varget is SUPER forgiving in that area, and easy to dump charge with...

Jeff

Hey Guys:

I finally talked with someone at DPMS, Dillon, who wanted to help me out. Now what they did was, they removed my bolt and carrier, and shot the rifle with their bolt and carrier, and 55 grain mil spec loads. Now how in the world they determined I needed a new extractor, is beyond me, I guess when the upper functioned with their mil loads and carrier assm., they just GUESSED, my extractor was bad. After some discussion he admitted I might be over gassed. So I just ordered an adjustable gas tube,and I will continue this saga, once I receive it. Also I was using IMR4895 with the 69's, and Varget with the 77's, and none of the loads are near max.I am just about wornout for all this, but I appreciate all of your input and help.

Thanks

Jerry