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Originally Posted by wabigoon
If Williams would have hit against the shift?


Got news for you. Cleveland manager Lou Boudreau INVENTED the [bleep] specifically for Ted Williams.


"As the Cleveland Indians shortstop, Lou Boudreau had seen firsthand the damage Ted Williams could do at the plate. And as the team’s manager, he was determined to do something about it.

Williams had hit three home runs and a single, driving in eight runs, in the first game of the Sunday doubleheader against the Indians at Fenway Park, and for the second game, Boudreau had a trick up his sleeve.

“I had thought about it for weeks,” Boudreau said in 1970 as his induction into the Hall of Fame loomed. “Right then and there, between games of the doubleheader, I decided to use the shift.”1

The idea of a shift—stacking one side of the field against a hitter—wasn’t a new one. Cy Williams of the Phillies had been the victim of a shift in the 1920s. White Sox manager Jimmy Dykes had already used one against Ted Williams, a noted pull hitter to right field.

But Boudreau said it wasn’t a tactical ploy; it was a psychological one. “My plan was predicated on the belief that Williams, who made no secret of the fact that he wanted to be known as the greatest hitter of all time—which I think he was—would be too proud to adjust his style to counteract my strategy, that it would be beneath his dignity to change,” Boudreau said in his autobiography.

With Indians players in their typical positions, Williams doubled in his first at-bat of the game, leading off the bottom of the second and starting a rally that included two doubles, two singles and a fly ball to give the Red Sox a 3-0 lead. The Indians cut the gap to 3-1 in the top of the third, when Hank Edwards singled to score Jack Conway.

Williams came to the plate for the second time in the game with two outs in the bottom of the third. Boudreau yelled, “Yo!” and players changed positions. First baseman Jimmy Wasdell and right fielder Edwards were almost to the foul line. Conway, at second base, moved toward first, in the outfield grass. Third baseman Ken Keltner was behind second base, also on the grass. Center fielder Pat Seerey was playing where a right fielder might normally play, and Boudreau was just to the right of second base.

The only Indians player on the left side of the field was left fielder George Case, playing what Boudreau termed “deep shortstop."


"The Democrat Party looks like Titanic survivors. Partying and celebrating one moment, and huddled in lifeboats freezing the next". Hatari 2017

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Originally Posted by shrapnel
Originally Posted by PaulBarnard
I wouldn't be surprised to see him pass Babe Ruth. I don't think he'll pass the real leader, Hank Aaron.


No one can eclipse Babe, he did it with less at bats, and still holds the record as far as 700 goes…


At-bats

Babe Ruth – 8,399
Hank Aaron – 12,364
Definitely! The Babe was the greatest.


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The Schofield Kid: Yeah, well, I guess they had it coming.

Will Munny: We all got it coming, kid.
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Originally Posted by hatari
[quote=dennisinaz.


People love to virtue signal. Bonds is a world class ass, but he was a multiple MVP winner and future HOF'er before he ever stuck a needle in his butt. I don't have a issue with Bonds, McGuire or Sosa being inducted into Cooperstown. It wasn't hormones that put that the bat on the ball, it was elite hand eye coordination. Did the PED's distort the numbers? Sure. So take 100 HRs off of all their stats and they are still HOFers.[/quote]

Agree AND disagree 😉

Bonds probably would have been a HOF without juicing. Still , if you put a decline trend on his numbers at the normal point/age his numbers would look more like Fred McGriff. Very good numbers, HOF ?

Sosa’s numbers really took off at a certain ‘point’ . Hmmm

Personally, with no scientific backup, I think one of the biggest benefits the roids gave them was healing injuries more quickly and keeping them in the game.

Think Mantle with 2 or 3 more healthy seasons.

My personal belief is I would not vote for Bonds, McGuire or Sosa. You might disagree and you might be right.

The Bennys definitely were a factor earlier on. How much over the course of a career ?

If Pete Rose ( king of rectal cavities) isn’t in the HOF it’s kind of a joke , in my opinion.

My thoughts worth what you paid for them.

It’s still a great game

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Originally Posted by WiFowler
Originally Posted by dennisinaz
Not sure why everyone is dogging on Bonds. He hit those long balls just the same as all the other guys
Not like he was using corked bats and huiced balls. Drugs are part of professional sports culture, no way around it. Roger Maris and his Era used Amphetamines, I'm sure the guys before that used whatever they could find.

And in the end, I wouldn't surprised if they found out that Puhols was 'juiced' along the way . . . . .


Well....they test the players so.....


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Originally Posted by hatari
Originally Posted by dennisinaz
Not sure why everyone is dogging on Bonds. He hit those long balls just the same as all the other guys
Not like he was using corked bats and huiced balls. Drugs are part of professional sports culture, no way around it. Roger Maris and his Era used Amphetamines, I'm sure the guys before that used whatever they could find.


People love to virtue signal. Bonds is a world class ass, but he was a multiple MVP winner and future HOF'er before he ever stuck a needle in his butt. I don't have a issue with Bonds, McGuire or Sosa being inducted into Cooperstown. It wasn't hormones that put that the bat on the ball, it was elite hand eye coordination. Did the PED's distort the numbers? Sure. So take 100 HRs off of all their stats and they are still HOFers.
Agree for the most part. IMO, one thing that seperates Bonds from McGuire and Sosa is that he never tested positive and AFAIK never admitted it.

Kinda crazy that both the all times hits leader and all time HR leader are not in the hallowed Hall...

I also find it quite interesting who gets to vote for admission into the MLB Hall of Fame. I don't think writers are the appropriate litmus test.

Last edited by pointer; 09/21/22.
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Bonds was a very lean 185 early in his career at 185 pounds. He was 228 when he hit 73 home runs. It was an abnormal body transformation for any athlete.

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