Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Old Ballistic Tips any good?

I can pick up a couple of boxes of Nosler 140gr Ballistic Tips for a good price. They are in the old red/green/black box.

They are marked "39587" and "Solid Base Boat-Tail Ballistic Tip".

Are these the early "blow up" variety or solid, reliable bullets?

Sounds like the 1980's blow up models. I had some less than textbook experiences with them in eastern Montana on mulies & pronghorn back in the day.

41

The most memorable performance I had with one of those was a very large (close to if not over 200 lb) 8 point wt buck at about 30 yards. All I had was a head or neck shot. I took the neck shot. Hit center of neck on his right side with said bullet from 7 RM. He went straight down, legs folded under him, and remained upright with his horns stuck in the ground in front of him. I thought that was pretty cool. Walked around to the other side and saw a drop of blood middle of his left shoulder. I dug out the ballistic tip from just under the skin. It had just broken the skin but didn’t exit. It weighed, after cleaning up, 70 grains.

What are you going to shoot them in?

Still have a few boxes of the last ones in 100 count boxes.
308 165gr.

Over a heavy load in my 20" 308 they are perfect. (For me)
Good expansion, very quick kills, full penetration, good blood trails,
Not excessive meat loss.
Dozen plus deer, every one the same bullet performance, a few deer ran
60-80 yards.


Used a few in a 300 mag. Pretty much identical, but only 3 or 4 examples.

Some of the guys that used the old 7mm 120gr and 140gr liked them.I used the 150gr in my 7mag and they didn't do that great.They were quite explosive.The new 150gr a really good bullets.

I remember when they first came out and the Solid Base bullets were discontinued. There were more lamentations, weeping and gnashing of teeth than that associated with the guest who showed up improperly dressed to the wedding.

The early 140 7mms were pretty much good to go from the beginning, especially in moderate cartridges. I used them quite bit in the late 1980s from a 7x57, loaded to around 2900 fps. Killed pronghorns and deer out to around 350 yards, and never recovered one.

I'll be shooting them in a 7mm-08, mostly for deer, perhaps a couple of hog hunts.

I wouldn't hesitate.....................

YMMV

MM

Shhhhhhh, we’re supposed to say they’re horrible so we can figure out where they are so we can get a deal on em

The old Nosler solid base suck too. But if you guys run across any, let me know..

I shot a couple of deer with the original 140gr .270s. The details of the first have popped off the stack, but the second one remains. Shot a forkie straight-on in the neck at about 25 yards. He dropped like a rock, naturally, but the bullet didn’t exit. Since I had that one butchered, I didn’t do an autopsy, but have to think it just blew up on the vertebrae, with no sign of the hit other than the entrance hole. Certainly effective, the only movement he made after the shot was a slow-pedal with one hind leg.

I imagine they’ll be good for “rib shots” as JB calls them, but I’d keep ‘em away from the steaks.

I just picked up an old hundred count box of 6.5 100gr. BTs picking through bullets at a shop. Got them for $9.95. I'm pretty certain they'll make fine bullets for reduced loads in my 6.5x55.

I love picking through stuff at older shops. Never know what you may come up with.

I shot my largest Mule Deer with the old 7mm 140 BTs at 365 yards cross canyon out of a 280AI in about 1986.I pulled the trigger and all I saw was feet up in the air after recoil.I will never forget that.

Yes, those are the ones.

Two of the damndest elk races I've ever been on was the result of those Plastic Tipped Potato Chips.

In all fairness, they were very accurate, and once the bullet slowed down quite a bit they worked......ok.

The old Nosler solid base suck too. But if you guys run across any, let me know..[/quote]

Jfc bsa1917 wish I would have known that just got done loading them 120 gr nsb 6.5 in front of 44.5 grains of StabBall for my t3x and hells canyon. Guess I can shoot some pd's with them..mb

That would be me as well.

I killed two nice bull elk with them, hit them mid section of the body, one did not kick, the other one kicked a hind leg twice, range was 150 yards or so, 7 Mag with load listed below.

I have killed numerous white tails with them, with no shot being closer than about 80 yards out of a 7 mag with a load of 65-66g of IMR 4350m, Rem case, Rem 9 1/2 primer at 3200 fps.

I have read all the horror stories like many of you, but I have never seen a surface explosion. I have 4 boxes of them still, and none will be sold. I also have boxes of the old solid base lead tip and buy them also when I see them.

The 120g Nosler ballistic tip has a thicker jacket than the 140g, we have shot a lot of deer with them also with 72-73g of R#22 with a cci 250 that shoots tiny groups, never a failure on deer, but they do not penetrate, just kill'em in their tracks or they may run 40 yards.

With the 7mm 140's at warp speed, I shoot behind the shoulder about 10-12", further than you would think, but deer just die quickly.

Yep, many of the early BTs were very tender--partly because they were designed as "deer bullet," which is what Nosler intended them to be--since they already made a fine elk bullet. Yet a lot of hunters insisted on using them on elk, due to their accuracy (which didn't make any difference at typical elk ranges), and higher BC (same comment). In fact, one of my fellow hunting writers back then used the 165-grain .30 in his .30-06 on a few elk with no problem. But I told him if he kept doing that, he would eventually end up chasing a 3-legged elk around the mountain. Turned out the next fall he shot a big cow in the shoulder, and had to do exactly that.

Which is why Nosler eventually toughened up the B-Tips that needed it. I have a local friend shot a big cow elk with the 165 with a .300 Weatherby. It was a frontal shot at around 150 yards, and the elk collapsed at the shot. He found the expanded bullet under the hide of the rump.

? withdrawn

Dad's still using 165 30 cals loaded to about 2500 or so in his '06. They were loaded up during the Reagan administration for meat hunting in the driftless zone of WI. They work rather well for their intended purpose.

They will also work fine pushed out of a 6.5 barrel at 3350 fps MV, but I'd load them in the 2700 to 2900 MV range.

20 grains of Blue Dot in a 260, with a 100 grain BTip...is a darn good deer combo...like 2450 fps MV
I've done the same thing with the Swede....30 grains of 4198, or max of 24 grains of Blue Dot.

I bought a bunch of .25 cal 100gn Ballistic Tips at least 20 years ago, possibly a bit longer. Still got a couple of boxes. From a 20 inch barrel .250 Savage (2772 fps) they were quite hard and I once shot two pigs with the same bullet. Pigs would tend to run a fair bit before going down. However, at 3100 fps from my Roberts they put pigs down quicker, I guess opening up more with the higher velocity. So this bullet at least, seemed to be fairly stoutly constructed a fair while ago. A mate has shot through a red deer hind and a beer keg barrel sized boar with the 100gn as well.

Makes you wonder what the .25 115gn would do better?

I once used a 150gn Ballistic Tip from my .308 to shoot length wise through a pig. The pig was facing me with its head down feeding so I shot it through the back of the neck. The exit hole was just to the side of its tail after penetrating almost three feet. Those bullets would have been over 20 years old as well so the fragile bullets must have been before my time.

I loaded some 100gr ballistic tips in my 25-06 to use on coyotes because I assumed they’d be fairly soft. I never got a shot with them. After reading the reports here I think I’ll use them for deer to. My deer loads were 100 TTSX and they’re a lot more costly than the Noslers.Now I won’t feel like I’m bleeding internally when I practice shooting some of them.

Never ever a ballistic tip again for us. The old ones were bombs... Newer supposedly better. but with TTSX around and another similar I can't think of the name of right now why would we use anything different.

For target practice sure. Varmints sure. But not edible game.

We use light BT type for hogs due to so many houses around but I'd hate to see deer destroyed like they do on pigs.

So there are uses. Just not for our tastes for big game. And I never want to see BT show up for moose/bear hunts with me as a guide. Saw a Berger show up this spring. That was a nightmare enough. Took quite a few TSX and TTSX out of our guide guns to stop the wound that the Berger started. Ugh.

We do use target bergers for slower rounds and longer shots.

As to cost of bullets if a box of TTSX breaks your bank you have much larger problems.

The only experience I've had with the early Ballistic Tips as with the 7MM 140 gr. bullet. Worked up a very accurate load for my 7MM Mauser M70 FWT running a hair over 2800 FPS with W760. I shot a Mule Deer buck and hit the shoulder. It looked like the bullet blew up on the shoulder bone. Just not sure if it actually penetrated into the vitals. When got to look for the deer that ran down into a gulley, I blew my left knee and couldn't go any farther. My son in law and his son refused to go look for the deer and dragged me off the hill. I haven't hunted with them since. I'm thinking of pulling the bullets and downloading them closer to factory levels as they'll still be moving fast enough for the distances I prefer shooting. Truth be told, I'l most likely just use them on paper and not worry about how explosive they may be.
PJ

What do you mean by "light BT type"? Light enough within caliber to fall into the varmint category of BT?

My campmate, his boys and I have used Ballistic Tips numerous times on deer/pigs and we have yet to "destroy" one. These include the 95 grain fired from the 243 Winchester, the 120 fired from the 260 Remington and the 150 and 165 grain versions fired from the 308 Winchester.

They would be good for pigs

Best deer bullet I’ve ever shot & as Mule Deer indicated the worst for elk. These will allow your tracking skills to get rusty at lest 150’s in my 7mm RM deer were all bang flop. 3 shots in a dime at 100 not uncommon super accurate & lethal on under 250 lb deer.

Killed a few elk then got a palm sized entry wound 240 yard shot on a nice bull over 500 yard tracking job in the snow. He died from shrapnel in the lungs.

Now exclusively use TTSX for elk & deer. Great bullet not as many spectacular kills as the old BT’s.

I shot a 500 + pound moose with a 165 grain solid base in a 308 win. The range was about 50 yards, first shot behind the shoulder. The seconds was in the neck. They did not pass through. I only recovered a piece of green tip.
The moose died.

Would like to know how "it looked like the bullet blew up on the shoulder bone" since the deer was never recovered. But have always wondered about ANY negative description of bullet performance where the animal was not recovered.

In this instance it's because, as noted in an earlier post on this thread, I killed a number of animals with the first version of the 140-grain 7mm Ballistic Tip handloaded to around 2900 fps from the 7x57 with NO problems. In fact never recovered one, even when they went through pretty heavy bone in deer-sized game at various ranges. Have also used them in cartridges up to the .280 Ackley Improved with no problems.

The late Chub Eastman, a VERY experienced hunter and the Nosler writer-contact from the mid-1980s until he retired around 2010, told me the 140 7mm was one the early Ballistic Tips they didn't change when "revising" the BT line in the late 80s. Based on my experience with them in those days I have no doubt that was true.

I killed several deer with the “original box” 270 and 7mm 140 btips out of the 270 win and 280 Rem. MV was 2900-3000 fps depending on rifle and load and they worked very well. The bullets exited on deer I shot with no signs of blow up. The only 140 Btip I can remember not exiting was a 140 combined technology in a Win factory load out of a 280 Encore. I borrowed the rifle from a buddy on an out od state trip. The barrel was long - 28” I think so additional velocity may have played a role in not exiting, but the deer dropped at shot anyway

I know I still have some original 270 140s and would have no qualms using them on any deer hunt at least

Lou

My son shot a big buck (200lbs+) at about 125 yards or so with a .257 115BT out of a 257 Roberts. The deer ran 80 or 100yds in a big circle.......He placed the shot in the ribs right behind the shoulder.........The lungs were soup.....Literally. All we found of that bullet were a few tiny fragments.......These were bought as seconds from SPS about 4 or 5 years ago.......These bullets are very accurate and did what it was supposed to do except stay together........

I base my opinion of the old ballistic tips on a sample of two, so, statistically meaningless. The first was a .308 165 gr. at about 50 yards on a broadside buck. MV was about 2550. Bullet grenaded but knocked the deer over. Second shot into the neck ended it. First bullet didn’t get past the shoulder blade. Second was a 115 gr. .257 at about 75 yards. Shot and hit the throat patch, bullet grenaded, deer ran off, did not find it despite good blood. Deer was seen and killed about two days later. I stopped using them. Newer bullets have been fantastic, with quick drops and good blood trails when they don’t drop.

Old70

Mule Deer's confidence in the early 140 grain 7mm ballistic tips surprises me because I had the opposite experience. I shot a doe mule deer at about 40 yards with a 140 BT out of a 7mm-08. That bullet blew up on the shoulder and made a huge entrance wound with no exit. The doe died but it did run about 75 yards first. Too much meat damage for me and I went back to partitions.

I have used them since the day they came out. hundreds of deer/hogs/elk later, no problems...

Never had any bullet fail to make it into the chest cavity of a whitetail deer and most of them that I have shot have been with high velocity cartridges at close range. This includes the original BT's

I've tried one bullet that ruined too much meat.
Found similar with varmit rounds, but that is to be expected
with using the "wrong" tool.



Not going to mention anything in particular and start a crapstrom,
But so many here insist on premium bullets, retained weight, and full
penetration. A decent soft bullet, at a decent speed, of decent dimensions,
will kill faster than most premiums. And if the dimensions are decent enough, it will fully penetrate too.

Even those proclaimed "too destructive" almost always exited.
That was where the damage was truly epic.


.308x165gr. Decent dimensions. Don't need "special" to kill whitetails
if you start in that neighborhood.

I had some first year BT's and I thought they did too much damage under certain circumstances. I suppose lung shots would have been perfect with the bullet. I stopped using the BT when I hit a shoulder. Honestly, I do not recall the caliber or the cartridge - but maybe the 30-06? I have no qualms about using the BT's now.

As far as bullet performance goes, I prefer bullets that stay together and don't destroy a lot of meat (blood shot) when the bullet hit a shoulder. I will (and often have) shoot at running deer and sometimes the bullet doesn't hit just behind the shoulders.

I blew some big holes in deer and antelope in the early 90’s with the 150 gr BT from a 30-06. In the late 90’s I shot a 15 lb coyote at 362 yards with the 140 gr from a 7mm STW. Granted it was an almost frontal shot but I would have thought it would exit such a small animal, which it did not.
Since then my only experience is with the newer 150 gr 7mm from a 7mm mag and a 7mm RUM. Performance has been excellent, even on a whitetail buck shot broadside at less than 50 yards with the RUM. It shattered the off side shoulder and exited. Pretty impressive given that it was still traveling at close to 3400 fps at that distance.

From my experience with them, the early ones were good on paper but not to be used on meat.mb

Deer tip over easy. Never shot a hog.

Early BT's came apart pretty violently at close range.

Buddy shot a whitetail at 30-40 yards with an old 130 grain in a .270 Win. One hole in. 3 holes out. Dead deer.

I shot a whitetail at about 60 yards with an old 150 grain in a .300 Win Mag. Hit too far back. Back of the liver on a broadside running shot. There were chunks of lung laying where the bullet met deer. Dead deer.

Sort of funny to me that ballistic tips even the early ones get a bad rap, but everybody and their brother seem to be shooting crtitters with amax, eldm, and tipped match kings because of the high bc these days. These are really nothing but very thin jacketed and soft core versions of the ballistic tip, even compared to old version and work ok if put in the vitals

Lou

For many years all I shot was a Win 670 in 30-06. Usually loaded with a 165 BT over 60 gr H4831. I killed a couple dozen deer with it, all one shot kills. It also served well to head shoot grouse, and kill ground squirrels.

In 1995, I killed my first cow elk with that combination, broadside shot at 200 yds from prone. Two shots impacted within two or three inches, right over the upper heart. One bullet entered between the ribs, penetrated well, but did not exit. The other bullet struck a rib, where it detonated. There was an entrance hole I could put my ham fist through.

The liver was lacerated, one lung collapsed, the heart sliced to pieces, diaphragm pierced, and the cow tipped over dead 40 yds from where I shot her.

The 30 cal 165 BT was a perfect deer bullet at 308/30-06 velocities, buy its performance on elk prompted me to pursue the Hornady 190 gr spbt for heavier game.

I started using 150 gr. .308's in the mid 80's and still use them and can't say they killed different over the years. Killed tons of deer with them

I always got complete pass-throughs on paper and never had a lengthy trail to follow on any target. Exit hole was only a ragged image of the entrance hole - i never recovered a bullet.

From the get-go Nosler explained/advertised the original Soft-Point Solid Base WAS designed specifically as a lower-cost "deer" bullet--because they already made a bullet for larger game.

When they put a plastic tip in the Solid Base, around 1985, they said the same thing, quite frequently, but that was when BALLISTIC COEFFICIENT was becoming a big factor among big game hunters. This was before laser rangefinders appeared, yet BC became a major advertising number--to the point where one of Nosler's competitors started producing a 7mm bullet they claimed had BC exactly .001 higher than the equivalent Nosler Ballistic Tip.

So a bunch of hunters used Ballistic Tips on bigger game, apparently because they shot 1-2 inches flatter at 400 yards, and often (but not always) grouped tighter than Partitions. This "accuracy advantage) didn't matter when shooting, say, elk at 500 yards, but as I have mentioned elsewhere, this was about when big game apparently shrank in size considerably, to about the size of a mature prairie dog.

As a result, elk that could have been killed quite reliably with Partitions were shot with Ballistic Tips that weren't designed for the job--and not surprisingly problems occurred. (This also happened with deer shot at "woods ranges," because apparently some hunters also believed there was some advantage in half-inch groups at 100 yards.)

Soon Nosler realized what was happening, and started toughening Ballistic Tips, both with thicker jackets and harder cores. This helped considerably, but some people still whined about everything, so Nosler introduced the AccuBond. (In this they followed the Leupold sales-model--Leupold owned Nosler back then--which was to make a scope for every tiny sub-section of the market.)

All of which is partly why some people still whine and moan when the performance of a particular bullet doesn't ALWAYS match their notion of ideal, at every range on every kind of big game....

Early BT where not varmint bullet explosive.
If meat damage is an issue don't shoot them in the meat.

By 1995 they where pretty tough. The fragile ones where in a green and red box and sold in the around the middle 80's.
In 1996 I shot a mature mule deer buck 200 yeards out with a 7mm 140gr BT at 3100fps. It entered just behind the ribs and was found in the deers chest just under the hide perfectly mushroom. I'd estimate it retain about 50% of its weight give or take. And the buck stumbled at the shot and was down within a few seconds. I shot a pile of deer with that bullet and never had a single issue and many were under 100 yards. I would use that load on elk all day long without reservation.

Ive shot BT's for years in my 280 Rem and have killed probably 80-85 deer with them and I have never had any issues with any BT. With that said, the past several years I have started using the 154 SST. IMO, these are excellent bullets and accuracy is outstanding

I hope they are good, I have about 500 bullets in the old 100 round boxes, 257 100gr to run through the 257 Roberts and 257 imp. I figure they will work just fine

This is my $50 purchase - 232 140gr BT's, 56 120gr BT's, a handful of 150gr Partitions, a box of the new variety 120gr BT's and some Hornady bullets. Considering that the one new box of 120gr BT's in the center of this picture costs $36.95 at retail, I think I did pretty good!



I'll be using the 140gr BT's on deer out of my 7mm-08 @ about 2800fps, so I have no qualms about them blowing up. If I ever get another chance at an elk hunt, I have better bullets and cartridges to use.

The Hornady bullets, however, are useless to me. There are only 15 of the 162gr BTSP's, and I don't have a "single shot pistol" in .284 cal to make use of the 55 120gr soft points. In fact, I've never heard of those from Hornady, and can only assume they are built to open up reliably at lower velocity.

If someone can make use of these, pay the postage and they're yours!

I would have been all over that deal. I loaded a lot of the old Nosler solid base bullets for a buddies .280 Rem. He shot a bunch of deer with them and never had a issue. I believe you will be just fine with them
Congrats on a great deal.

Those single shot pistol bullets would be just the ticket in a reduced recoil youth load on top of something like 4198.

I'll bet Seafire has a perfect reduced load recipe for my 7mm-08 and those bullets!

Yes, it's been a long time since I started this thread, but I finally thought of asking Nosler whether the Solid Base Ballistic Tips I have are the early "blow up" version or the later improved version - and I used exactly that language.

They asked me for the lot number printed on the boxes so they could determine the year made.

The Ballistic Tip was introduced in 1984, and it turns out my red/green boxes of 100 were produced in 1993 and 1994.

The Nosler technician said that all of the major improvements to the BT - except for the continuous tweaking process all their bullets go through - were complete over that 9-10 year period.

He didn't explain how to interpret the lot number, but he told me how to find it: look on the bottom of the box for a set of numbers that start with 2 letters, then 2 numbers, followed by more letters and numbers.

For example, my 140gr 7mm bullets had a lot number of FS24c1. He said that indicated 1994.

Maybe someone else here can explain the code in detail, but I got all the information I needed from his response. I'm happy!

I'm glad this thread was brought up. I just loaded some red box 7mm 140gr "Solid Base ballistic tipped" bullets for my 7mm-08s. I ordered two boxes of the newer 140gr bullets this week. Glad to see they 140gr bullets haven't been changed much.

the bullets you have are magic in a 7mm br or 7mm tcu pistol , performed like you would like for a deer bullet at their moderate 2200-2000 fps start line . I n a 7mm mag or even 280 they make good varmint bullets
The 140s in the 100 ct red and green are the ones I am speaking about, the 120gr bullets in the gold boxx are the newer tougher ones ,

What I saw when my brother-in-law shot a deer with the first ballistic tips convinced me and every one who saw the results that they were no good for deer, that is they had fast expansion and wasted a lot of meat. The bullets needed ‘toughening up’ - we all felt this way. No one in our hunting group used ballistic tips for a very long time after that.
Now, if my brother-in-law had shot that deer in the ribs we probably would not have ‘whined’ regarding their performance.
I’m glad they’ve improved the bullet. I’ll try them someday.
Our experience may have been unique, I don’t think so.

Same thing happened to me 1st animal shot with a 130 gr .277 bt, but thru the rib cage massive expansion on the surface.after that I didn't use them for 20 years. It took JB's credibilty to get me to try them again. Damn those nosler turds to put out a bullet with zero meaningful field testing just as bad as every version of sorry X bullets that copper fouled and hornady's track record on engineering/ cost cutting improvements that screwed up a good bullet. It's just no damn wonder we get set in our ways period...mb

It would be interesting to know how many whitetails and mule deer we killed with the early 125 gr. BT out of the .308 Win and the 165 BT out of either a .308 Win or .30-06. With the 125 gr. .308 Win loads they were loaded down as my brother and I started deer hunting when we were 12. I started winding them up as I got older and eventually had them moving around 3000 fps and they were deer hammers. 165 gr. BT is all that we used on deer for the last 15 years that dad was hunting. He and I shot the same .30-06 load - 57 gr. IMR 4350 and MV of 2800ish fps. Killed my farthest deer shot with that 165 gr. out of a .308 Win that started out at 2700 fps. 583 yards and dad was just shaking his head when I said I was going to shoot that deer. I can recall recovering a lot of green tips in the entry wound, but I can't think of any that we recovered from game. If I could use a .30 cal on deer in Iowa I would still be using them to kill deer.

I just got two boxes of 140gr BTs. I compared them to the Solid Base BTs I had. The new bullets are a little longer with a sleeker ogive.

I killed two bull elk with the old 140g Nosler ballistic tips, red and green box. They flopped at the shot, one moved a hind leg one time, 7 Mag, 65.5g IMR 4350, Rem case with rem 9 1/2 pirmer, bullet .
003 off the lands, 100-200 yard shots

Largest white tail I have ever killed was with the old 130g NOsler ballistic tips out of a Browning A bolt 270, frontal shot, broke a shoulder and exited a hind quarter with 58g of R#22, fed 210.

keith,

The late Chub Eastman told me years ago that the 140-grain 7mm Ballistic Tips was one they didn't have to "adjust" after BTs were introduced.

It was one of the first BTs I hunted with, if I recall correctly taking my first animals with it around 1988, from a Ruger No.1A, loaded to around 2900 fps. Never recovered one--and the animals I shot dropped very quickly, and also never recovered....