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Re: If you were to have just one caliber ? Rossimp #17693656 10/13/22
Joined: Feb 2001 Posts: 50,634 Anchorage, AK USA Sitka deer Campfire Kahuna
Sitka deer Campfire Kahuna Joined: Feb 2001 Posts: 50,634 Anchorage, AK USA	Originally Posted by Rossimp I wouldn’t say Swamp’s numbers are far off the mark. The RUM with 250 gr loads with +.700 BC started at 2,850 fps does yield about 2,750 ft-lbs at 500 yards. Depending if you start the 30-06 with 180 gr at 2,750 fps you’d get around 3,000 ft-lbs at the muzzle. At 900 yds the RUM will maintain around 1,750 ft-lbs, that’s right about where the 06 is at 400 yds with a 180 gr load. I respect Alaskan folks a great deal and spent a year in Anchorage working on some engineering projects and traveled some of the state. I always enjoy reading what Mainer, Phil and Swamp write. They all bring a different opinion because they all hunt game differently. Never meeting them my opinion after reading many posts is Phil is a big time Brownie guide/hunter, known by many because of magazine hunting articles. His family operation on coastal and grizzly hunting as well as other species is well known. Mainer IMO is a pioneer and a subsistence man who hunts and lives with freedom and survival in mind. A true Alaskan spirit with a high utilitarian IQ which is needed to live and survive in Alaska. Swamp is an elite rifleman/LR hunter (great photos on factory and wildcatted cartridges, especially Wby RPM derived wildcats). His taking of game at extended ranges with the most recent technology/equipment and knowledge of how to use it and fine tune it are difficult to accomplish. I could be wrong on the above, it’s just my feeling after reading many posts. Point is they all hunt differently and all appear to be proficient and fine with their methods and equipment. That’s all that really matters. It is not foot lbs that kill. It is adequate holes in the proper place. Mark Begich, Joaquin Jackson, and Heller resistance... Three huge reasons to worry about the NRA.

GB1

Re: If you were to have just one caliber ? Gringo Loco #17693747 10/13/22
Joined: Aug 2017 Posts: 2,476 Montana M MedRiver Campfire Regular
MedRiver Campfire Regular M Joined: Aug 2017 Posts: 2,476 Montana	Originally Posted by Gringo Loco Originally Posted by hikerbum Nice setup Originally Posted by MedRiver I have exactly one Alaska hunt under my belt so my personal experience might as well be zero...however, I have been in the alders with a 20" .35 Whelen and it certainly didn't feel too short. I would not have complained if it was 18" while we were following a piss poor blood trail of a wounded bear. My Whelen is a cut down Ruger 77 rebore with the standard sporter .30-06 contour. It is a handy setup that is light enough for a sheep hunt and snorty enough for a big brown (I would think). With todays powder options it can get a 225-250 class bullet moving fast enough to do some serious work near and far. Mine is setup with a scope but I also have front irons installed and an NECG ghost ring that lives in my hunting pack that works with the integral receiver mounts. If you have time to remove the scope, you have time to install the irons and it seems to hold zero just fine. I think the medium bores offer a lot because their favorable expansion ratios minimize velocity loss with shorter tubes. Anything over 22" would be disqualified for me as a "one and done" AK rifle (not that I wouldn't happily carry my 24" .300 WM on an open ground caribou hunt). I have a pile of niche rifles for future AK hunts but if I am honest I could sell them all and be pretty well setup with just the Whelen. I agree. Thinking that would be a solid Alaskan rig. It reminds me of pabucktail's .416 Taylor Project. Thanks for sharing that link. I am anxiously awaiting a .400 Whelen in a similar configuration to his (lighter contour barrel at 20" on a CRF action) that only needs sights and then should be complete. I had a few hiccups along the way (like when pac-nor sent me a CM barrel vs stainless...something we discovered after the machining and bedding were complete) but looking forward to launching some big pills.

Re: If you were to have just one caliber ? Cntrmass #17693758 10/13/22
Joined: Dec 2010 Posts: 1,608 Likes: 1 Interior, Alaska M mainer_in_ak Campfire Regular
mainer_in_ak Campfire Regular M Joined: Dec 2010 Posts: 1,608 Likes: 1 Interior, Alaska	Swamplord, Even though you spend tens of thousands of dollars on all your own equipment and adventures, you're not doing it right. What you need to do, is take 20-30k per dumb fker, and have adventures on their dime. Shoot a stoopid fkn juvenile bear with a 9 mil handgun, then brag it up all over the gun magazines........

Re: If you were to have just one caliber ? T_Inman #17694008 10/13/22
Joined: Jul 2004 Posts: 5,050 Likes: 3 Alaska S Swamplord Campfire Tracker
Swamplord Campfire Tracker S Joined: Jul 2004 Posts: 5,050 Likes: 3 Alaska	Originally Posted by T_Inman Originally Posted by Swamplord The 180 gr Factory ammo at the time was loaded hot, right around 3320 fps according to my Gamma Master Chrony , and I absolutely loved it ! Finally a cartridge worthy of Long Range Hunting ... With a case full of Reloader 25 and 200 gr Accubond bullets it laid waste to some fantastic bull moose since , at ranges my old '06 royally pissed me off at .... I'm not one to say you're wrong at all for a cartridge or hunting style choice...but you do realize that a given bullet's velocity gap between two starting speeds decreases the further downrange you get, right? That is to say, your 200 Accubond at 3200 FPS (.300 RUM) is only going 1751 FPS at 1000 yards, where if you started that bullet at 2700 FPS (.30-06) at 1000 yards that bullet is going 1419 FPS. That cuts the 500 FPS head start at the muzzle down to only a 332 FPS difference. As for this: Originally Posted by Swamplord The 300 RUM does the same at 500 yards as the '06 at the muzzle ...... so in other words (& math) the 300 RUM is the same as the 400 yard '06 at 900 yards I am not sure where your math here is coming from....as it just simply isn't adding up. There's nothing wrong with the RUM...rock on...but it isn't quite as magical as you're making it out to be at long range, unless you're just referring to recoil and muzzle blast. did you ignore this part and fill in the rest ? " & the hunter is an experienced shooter, using handloaded ammunition with the highest bc bullets designed for long range hunting, painstakingly worked up for extreme velocity & precision accuracy " the typical 30-06 guys will pick up a box of factory ammo, usually whatever is available off the shelf with potato shaped bullets, hit a pie plate sized target a couple times and are ready for moose hunting ....... you guys applaud ! then sh it all over the other guys who use cartridges that have the same or more energy at 2x the distance with much smaller groups beyond 2x the distance ..... the ammunition we load must have high bc bullets at 1/2 moa or less with single digit sd ... there is no exception .... With all that said ... I've killed more moose at typical short ranges , 100- 400 yards than beyond that , my hunts are late Sept. where I call & rake them in then hammer the snot out of them ... Guillotine execution style, no running, no tracking, no follow up shots, & no guides blasting at my moose ... one shot .... I've solo hunted Alaska over 30 years with many different cartridges and tested just about every bullet made, usually before most even see the bullets .... I've had custom bullets made for me, designed specifically for the intended use with wildcat cartridges that put factory cartridges to shame in regards to velocity/energy and extreme accuracy And yes... I agree that "shot placement" is paramount ! (see pics for reference , 338 Edge 285 gr ELDM, RL 33) Some of us can "shot placement" a hell of a lot farther than the fat bastards with the 30'06 who don't shoot more than ten rounds a year Some people tend to use Their Own Lack Of ability/skill, experience and equipment to judge others with ... Do you tell Indy 500 drivers how to drive ? or F35 Lightning ll pilots how to fly ? Why not ? you don't have what it takes to do that .... so go ahead and tell them what it is they shouldn't do ... ...... "The welfare of humanity is always the alibi of tyrants".

Re: If you were to have just one caliber ? Cntrmass #17694060 10/13/22
Joined: May 2008 Posts: 25,526 Likes: 3 Valhalla SE AK & WA A AcesNeights Campfire Ranger
AcesNeights Campfire Ranger A Joined: May 2008 Posts: 25,526 Likes: 3 Valhalla SE AK & WA	When SHTF I know who I want on overwatch. 😁 �Politicians are the lowest form of life on earth. Liberal Democrats are the lowest form of politician.� �General George S. Patton, Jr. --------------------------------------------------------- ~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~

IC B2

Re: If you were to have just one caliber ? mainer_in_ak #17694065 10/13/22
Joined: Jul 2004 Posts: 5,050 Likes: 3 Alaska S Swamplord Campfire Tracker
Swamplord Campfire Tracker S Joined: Jul 2004 Posts: 5,050 Likes: 3 Alaska	Originally Posted by mainer_in_ak Swamplord, Even though you spend tens of thousands of dollars on all your own equipment and adventures, you're not doing it right. What you need to do, is take 20-30k per dumb fker, and have adventures on their dime. Shoot a stoopid fkn juvenile bear with a 9 mil handgun, then brag it up all over the gun magazines........ Most guides in Alaska & especially "PH's" in Africa hate the accomplished & experienced DIY hunters simply because we have no need for them , they prefer the inexperienced guys so they can feel superior around them and feel like celebrities "The welfare of humanity is always the alibi of tyrants".

Re: If you were to have just one caliber ? Cntrmass #17694075 10/13/22
Joined: May 2014 Posts: 10,432 NE South Dakota Bugger Campfire Outfitter
Bugger Campfire Outfitter Joined: May 2014 Posts: 10,432 NE South Dakota	I'd probably sell my pristine pre-64 Win 70, 375 H&H AI. 235 grain bullets to 300 grain should cover the works. I prefer classic. Semper Fi I used to run with the hare. Now I'm envious of the tortoise and I do my own stunts but rarely intentionally

Re: If you were to have just one caliber ? MedRiver #17694112 10/13/22
Joined: Jul 2006 Posts: 8,548 G Gringo Loco Campfire Outfitter
Gringo Loco Campfire Outfitter G Joined: Jul 2006 Posts: 8,548	Originally Posted by MedRiver Thanks for sharing that link. I am anxiously awaiting a .400 Whelen in a similar configuration to his (lighter contour barrel at 20" on a CRF action) that only needs sights and then should be complete. I had a few hiccups along the way (like when pac-nor sent me a CM barrel vs stainless...something we discovered after the machining and bedding were complete) but looking forward to launching some big pills. I appreciate you sharing your .35 Whelen on this thread, and eagerly await a similar exposition of your .400 Whelen when it's ready.

Re: If you were to have just one caliber ? Cntrmass #17694124 10/13/22
Joined: Jul 2004 Posts: 5,050 Likes: 3 Alaska S Swamplord Campfire Tracker
Swamplord Campfire Tracker S Joined: Jul 2004 Posts: 5,050 Likes: 3 Alaska	my old man has probably taken over 50 bull moose, 70% taken with a 7mm Rem Mag and others with an old beat up Win70 pre-64 30-06 Both are great cartridges for hunting in Alaska with properly selected bullets for what you're planning to do at typical moose hunting range bro hunts with his Win70 375 H&H, other bro with Tikka 300 WSM ... moose die every time ! I do things a bit different and in any given day in two weeks of the hunting season I'll be out with a different rifle/cartridge & bullet and hunt different areas, set up for long range or rock throwing distance "The welfare of humanity is always the alibi of tyrants".

Re: If you were to have just one caliber ? Cntrmass #17694262 10/13/22
Joined: Jul 2005 Posts: 23,501 Alaska valley trash 7 79S Campfire Ranger
79S Campfire Ranger 7 Joined: Jul 2005 Posts: 23,501 Alaska valley trash	Cool story guys but after Meemaw Peltola gets reelected and gets to work Only thing you all be shooting is ph ucking tree stumps. Last edited by 79S; 10/13/22. Originally Posted by Bricktop Then STFU. The rest of your statement is superflous bullshit with no real bearing on this discussion other than to massage your own ego. Suckin' on my titties like you wanted me.

IC B3

Re: If you were to have just one caliber ? mainer_in_ak #17694295 10/13/22
Joined: Jul 2005 Posts: 23,501 Alaska valley trash 7 79S Campfire Ranger
79S Campfire Ranger 7 Joined: Jul 2005 Posts: 23,501 Alaska valley trash	Originally Posted by mainer_in_ak Swamplord, Even though you spend tens of thousands of dollars on all your own equipment and adventures, you're not doing it right. What you need to do, is take 20-30k per dumb fker, and have adventures on their dime. Shoot a stoopid fkn juvenile bear with a 9 mil handgun, then brag it up all over the gun magazines........ Damn what Phil do to you?? Originally Posted by Bricktop Then STFU. The rest of your statement is superflous bullshit with no real bearing on this discussion other than to massage your own ego. Suckin' on my titties like you wanted me.

Re: If you were to have just one caliber ? Swamplord #17694300 10/13/22
Joined: Mar 2007 Posts: 20,240 Likes: 11 T_Inman Campfire Ranger
T_Inman Campfire Ranger Joined: Mar 2007 Posts: 20,240 Likes: 11	Originally Posted by Swamplord Originally Posted by T_Inman Originally Posted by Swamplord The 180 gr Factory ammo at the time was loaded hot, right around 3320 fps according to my Gamma Master Chrony , and I absolutely loved it ! Finally a cartridge worthy of Long Range Hunting ... With a case full of Reloader 25 and 200 gr Accubond bullets it laid waste to some fantastic bull moose since , at ranges my old '06 royally pissed me off at .... I'm not one to say you're wrong at all for a cartridge or hunting style choice...but you do realize that a given bullet's velocity gap between two starting speeds decreases the further downrange you get, right? That is to say, your 200 Accubond at 3200 FPS (.300 RUM) is only going 1751 FPS at 1000 yards, where if you started that bullet at 2700 FPS (.30-06) at 1000 yards that bullet is going 1419 FPS. That cuts the 500 FPS head start at the muzzle down to only a 332 FPS difference. As for this: Originally Posted by Swamplord The 300 RUM does the same at 500 yards as the '06 at the muzzle ...... so in other words (& math) the 300 RUM is the same as the 400 yard '06 at 900 yards I am not sure where your math here is coming from....as it just simply isn't adding up. There's nothing wrong with the RUM...rock on...but it isn't quite as magical as you're making it out to be at long range, unless you're just referring to recoil and muzzle blast. did you ignore this part and fill in the rest ? " & the hunter is an experienced shooter, using handloaded ammunition with the highest bc bullets designed for long range hunting, painstakingly worked up for extreme velocity & precision accuracy " the typical 30-06 guys will pick up a box of factory ammo, usually whatever is available off the shelf with potato shaped bullets, hit a pie plate sized target a couple times and are ready for moose hunting ....... you guys applaud ! then sh it all over the other guys who use cartridges that have the same or more energy at 2x the distance with much smaller groups beyond 2x the distance ..... the ammunition we load must have high bc bullets at 1/2 moa or less with single digit sd ... there is no exception .... With all that said ... I've killed more moose at typical short ranges , 100- 400 yards than beyond that , my hunts are late Sept. where I call & rake them in then hammer the snot out of them ... Guillotine execution style, no running, no tracking, no follow up shots, & no guides blasting at my moose ... one shot .... I've solo hunted Alaska over 30 years with many different cartridges and tested just about every bullet made, usually before most even see the bullets .... I've had custom bullets made for me, designed specifically for the intended use with wildcat cartridges that put factory cartridges to shame in regards to velocity/energy and extreme accuracy And yes... I agree that "shot placement" is paramount ! (see pics for reference , 338 Edge 285 gr ELDM, RL 33) Some of us can "shot placement" a hell of a lot farther than the fat bastards with the 30'06 who don't shoot more than ten rounds a year Some people tend to use Their Own Lack Of ability/skill, experience and equipment to judge others with ... Do you tell Indy 500 drivers how to drive ? or F35 Lightning ll pilots how to fly ? Why not ? you don't have what it takes to do that .... so go ahead and tell them what it is they shouldn't do ... ...... No, I did not miss that part at all. I am however, wondering if you missed this part of my response: Originally Posted by T_Inman I'm not one to say you're wrong at all for a cartridge or hunting style choice Last edited by T_Inman; 10/13/22. Reason: never mind about the edit...too much to type out

Re: If you were to have just one caliber ? Cntrmass #17694320 10/13/22
Joined: Dec 2011 Posts: 910 A AGL4now Campfire Regular
AGL4now Campfire Regular A Joined: Dec 2011 Posts: 910	If people are hell'bent on obsessing about anything reference hunting, obsessing about the best "type" firearm would be time better spent then masturbating about perfect cartridge. ALASKA is a "HARD COUNTRY for OLDMEN". (But if you live it wide'ass open, balls'to the wall, the pedal floored, full throttle, it is a delightful place, to finally just sit-back and savor those memories while sipping Tequila).

Re: If you were to have just one caliber ? Cntrmass #17694403 10/13/22
Joined: Dec 2016 Posts: 3,085 Likes: 2 Garandimal Campfire Tracker
Garandimal Campfire Tracker Joined: Dec 2016 Posts: 3,085 Likes: 2	Think one could successfully hunt anything on the planet - w/ a 24" Bbl'ed 30-06 and 168 gr. Barnes TSX bullets loaded to ~ 2850 at the muzzle. GR

Re: If you were to have just one caliber ? Garandimal #17694478 10/13/22
Joined: Jul 2004 Posts: 5,050 Likes: 3 Alaska S Swamplord Campfire Tracker
Swamplord Campfire Tracker S Joined: Jul 2004 Posts: 5,050 Likes: 3 Alaska	Originally Posted by Garandimal Think one could successfully hunt anything on the planet - w/ a 24" Bbl'ed 30-06 and 168 gr. Barnes TSX bullets loaded to ~ 2850 at the muzzle. GR and I would agree ...... I can do same .... but further out .... 300 RUM 180 gr TTSX bullets ..... "The welfare of humanity is always the alibi of tyrants".

Re: If you were to have just one caliber ? 79S #17694505 10/13/22
Joined: Jan 2005 Posts: 3,939 Likes: 3 AK peninsula 458Win Campfire Tracker
458Win Campfire Tracker Joined: Jan 2005 Posts: 3,939 Likes: 3 AK peninsula	Originally Posted by 79S Originally Posted by mainer_in_ak Swamplord, Even though you spend tens of thousands of dollars on all your own equipment and adventures, you're not doing it right. What you need to do, is take 20-30k per dumb fker, and have adventures on their dime. Shoot a stoopid fkn juvenile bear with a 9 mil handgun, then brag it up all over the gun magazines........ Damn what Phil do to you?? Maybe a disgruntled RHAK member who hates all guides? He certainly can't distinguish an adult brown bear from a juvenile one. But he does act like he knows all about guides. I know many dozens of both Alaskan guides and African PH's and every single one prefers competent and experienced hunters over arrogant know it alls. Phil Shoemaker Alaska Master Guide, Alaska Hunter Ed Instructor FAA Master pilot www.grizzlyskinsofalaska.com Anyone who claims the 30-06 is not effective has either not used one, or else is unwittingly commenting on their marksmanship.

Re: If you were to have just one caliber ? Swamplord #17694589 10/13/22
Joined: Dec 2016 Posts: 3,085 Likes: 2 Garandimal Campfire Tracker
Garandimal Campfire Tracker Joined: Dec 2016 Posts: 3,085 Likes: 2	Originally Posted by Swamplord Originally Posted by Garandimal Think one could successfully hunt anything on the planet - w/ a 24" Bbl'ed 30-06 and 168 gr. Barnes TSX bullets loaded to ~ 2850 at the muzzle. GR and I would agree ...... I can do same .... but further out .... 300 RUM 180 gr TTSX bullets ..... At ~ 47 Ft-Lbs of recoil...? Stick w/ my 10.5 lb./18 Ft-Lb 30-06 M1 rifle... and get a little closer. 8>) GR

Re: If you were to have just one caliber ? Cntrmass #17694751 10/13/22
Joined: Jul 2020 Posts: 2,398 Likes: 1 G GAGoober Campfire Regular
GAGoober Campfire Regular G Joined: Jul 2020 Posts: 2,398 Likes: 1	👍

Re: If you were to have just one caliber ? 458Win #17694965 10/13/22
Joined: Jul 2005 Posts: 23,501 Alaska valley trash 7 79S Campfire Ranger
79S Campfire Ranger 7 Joined: Jul 2005 Posts: 23,501 Alaska valley trash	Originally Posted by 458Win Originally Posted by 79S Originally Posted by mainer_in_ak Swamplord, Even though you spend tens of thousands of dollars on all your own equipment and adventures, you're not doing it right. What you need to do, is take 20-30k per dumb fker, and have adventures on their dime. Shoot a stoopid fkn juvenile bear with a 9 mil handgun, then brag it up all over the gun magazines........ Damn what Phil do to you?? Maybe a disgruntled RHAK member who hates all guides? He certainly can't distinguish an adult brown bear from a juvenile one. But he does act like he knows all about guides. I know many dozens of both Alaskan guides and African PH's and every single one prefers competent and experienced hunters over arrogant know it alls. Ah the infamous Rural Hombres of Alaska (RHAK).. is mark Richards still el presidente of that crew? Last edited by 79S; 10/13/22. Originally Posted by Bricktop Then STFU. The rest of your statement is superflous bullshit with no real bearing on this discussion other than to massage your own ego. Suckin' on my titties like you wanted me.

Re: If you were to have just one caliber ? Cntrmass #17694979 10/13/22
Joined: Jul 2005 Posts: 23,501 Alaska valley trash 7 79S Campfire Ranger
79S Campfire Ranger 7 Joined: Jul 2005 Posts: 23,501 Alaska valley trash	You guys hear 👂 that?? It’s River Boat Cpt meemaw Peltola coming after yo hunting and fishing rights. Not a federal subsistence hunter sucks to be you.. Last edited by 79S; 10/13/22. Originally Posted by Bricktop Then STFU. The rest of your statement is superflous bullshit with no real bearing on this discussion other than to massage your own ego. Suckin' on my titties like you wanted me.

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