Home Forums Hunting & Shooting General Big Game 225 yard zero

You are full of yourself, for what I hunt with that rifle it works, I know it's and my limitations and hunt accordingly. To think you somehow know something special is presumptuous and inaccurate.

Just more chest pounding, use what work's for you and quit criticizing others. MPBR is a very effective way to hunt for 90% of the hunters that are just wanting to fill their freezers.

To each his ownus, back off jackazz

What's your wind reference there? Wind is always the "guess" for me....but I try to make it an educated guess with a reference point.

What Jordan stated is what I do. 100 yard zero as 90% of my shots are in the woods. Later in the day I may hunt an ag field with 800 yard possibilities where I dial to a 200 yard zero then dial as needed for distance after that with a reticle that has measured references on the horizontal to hold wind. A cheat sheet on the stock with 10 mph windage holds is a BIG help for me.

If someone is using a reticle alone I think it's really hard to beat NF's Velocity 600 reticle with either the low/med/high reticle matched to your cartridge/bullet. It's not perfect, but it's about the closest simple reticle for holding elevation and windage that I've found......but I still prefer to dial elevation and hold wind on a generic mil reticle.

Everyone only has to please themselves so use what meets your preferences and needs.

I didn’t make such an assumption. If you re-read my post, my point was that it’s possible to have the best of both worlds. Dialling for a 200-yard shot while carrying the rifle in a hunting situation certainly doesn’t need to be “frustrating” for guys who like to be proficient and prepared to take longer shots, and there certainly can be a speed advantage for closer shot opportunities on relatively large targets.


That’s up to you, but I’ve hauled exposed turrets for a lot of miles and hours through gnarly brush and thick forests, without a single problem. With even a modicum of care, it’s a non-issue with a decent scope. The same type of care that most people give to protect their lenses and muzzle from getting crap in them.

I agree here, to a certain extent, though I’ll point out a couple of things. First, there are several ways to get the job done out to 500 yards, including peep sights and BP loads, but some are more effective and less likely to lead to wounding or misses than others.

Second, you mention adjusting for wind, but with the vast majority of BDC reticles it’s a fallacy to think that you’re “perfect to 800 yards” without precise windage hashmarks built into the reticle for shooting at those distance that enable you to carefully hold for any wind. In reality, if high hit probabilities are desired, the hunter is limited to a few hundred yards in any sort of wind, or taking longer shots only in virtually windless conditions. That is despite having practiced shooting in the wind enough to know how to compensate for it, simply because of a lack of tools that are precise enough to allow that compensation at longer distances.

+1

Agree about the lack of wind compensation options on most BDC reticles, and even on most Christmas-tree reticles.

I'm a simple guy... ask anyone who knows me..... and not so seldom wrong... Sue me. 225 yard approximate zero, is just about perfect for me- but I'm not picky. a little more or less gets the job done just fine. That's pretty much a point-blank hold out to 300 yards or so, and that is where most of my kill shots fall into. Caribou stretch it a might, maybe.

Good enough to get the job done is good enough for me, but, obviously, and no diss intended - not for many of you. You have different situations/needs.

My rifles are beat-up working pieces and are scoped with Leupold and (gasp) Tasco. No turrets, or fancy formulas, etc. - just "Duplex" hairs without hash marks. Which were helpful before I bought a range finder. And after. And for close-in quick-shots. learn how best used...

If i did have hash marked scopes, I would field test/ memorize them at appropriate ranges, (probably not wind conditions for my hunting, but that ain't a bad idea either). for you anal types factor in bullet weights used.

I prefer 1.5 MOA or less accuracy , but I might go with 2 MOA if I like the piece. A good rest is more important, than sub MOA, IMO. But I'll work on it for best accuracy, likely getting it down to 1.5 MOA or less. Or not and limit my range somewhat - again depending on animal size, gun, confidence level.

If the center of the group goes 2.0 to 2.5 high (or a tad more) at 100, I'm good to go, for the animals I have hunted (sheep, goats, caribou, moose, bear, one elk, one mule deer), and that's where I sight all my rifles, regardless of caliber. I'm not too picky about that, or any of the esoteric things above - no doubt putting me at the top of BS's "clueless dumphuque" list. No argument there. I just don't care. It's worked for over 50 years - i see no need to change anything for my hunting purposes. I am - um - "economically minded" - and am just not going to burn up another 5-15 rounds adjusting POA to get that last 1/4to1/2 inch out of the "perfect"sight in.

Caveate - I'm not trying to shoot the eyes out of PDs at 300 yards, or whanging away at elk way out there - but that's just me. If that's your thing, you do indeed need all the help, precision (not a bad thing) , and likely some luck, that you can get - I would too, if I did, but I don't. Like I said, I like simple. Powder burn range is my preference, of course. Personal preference, and you are welcome to do your thing.

For over 50 years, I've sighted in my rifles 2.0 - 2.5 at 100, and gone hunting, keeping in mind that all of my rifles, regardless of caliber, will go close enough to the 7/8- 21/24/ 45-48 inch drops at 300,400,500. I just keep in mind 8/24/48. Simple, and "close enough" for most big game calibers, within 500 yards, on the animals I hunt. Easy to remember, and I don't shoot beyond 500. I translate this in the field (study up beforehand) into "average" body depths - i.e., approximate back line, half above, full body depth at 300,400,500. That would be for caribou. Maybe some fudging for percieved size., allowing for good range estimation or known. It's always worked, for something between 75 and 90 caribou - average distance probably pushing 300 yards, and some out to nearly 500.

Depending on the species and sex of the animal, of course. A cow caribou is nowhere as deep as a big bull of course. The advantage is that (if you have studied up and remember all this stuff), it is an almost instantaneous calculation - more time is all to the good.

I'm fairly chitty at running shots at anything unless under 100 yards, if you must know, so I try to avoid those. The last one I did was on a big bull caribou, fast-stepping (not exactly running) into a 20mph headwind (which I forgot about), at about 360 yards (estimated at the shot from two pre- ranged trees, and I forgot to back-range him from kill site to blind). I lead him a tad too much, putting the first one into his brisket. A foot or bit more back and I would have taken out his heart.(MOA cheap Rem 770- - with 6x40 Tasco, 150 gr Corelokts, so there!). I did better on the second shot, as he was more slowly hobbling away after he got up again.... first, slow 'em down... .






I did sight in my '98 (inch groups at 300) at 300 for caribou hunting in the Arctic, , and found that counter-intuitive (maybe due to my decades of 200-250 sight-ins ) . IIRC, it was 17" high at 100 yards. I'd have to look at a ballistic chart again, but I know I over-shot one close-in caribou when I forgot. With the first shot. I then held at the bottom of his chest and center-punched him, a yearling bull.

It's back to 2.5 with 150 gr. loads. Pretty certain I can go with 180's or 200's without changing the elevation. Maybe. I might even try it at the range some day...

I pretty much ignore wind for shooting at my comfort ranges (YMMV at longer than 500, or in strong wind, at small targets)- if I even think of it, which I usually don't. It's burned me a couple times in very strong winds, but without ever losing an animal. Shooting the pecker-tip off an animal is embarrassing, for sure. (Pre range-finder - I mis judged distance also).

All this overly verbose stuff above is to say, do whatever works for you under your conditions/hunting/species. There is no "right way", overall.

Don't fix what ain't broke, if it works for you. Over-thinking doesn't have a good rep.

Under-thinking tends to suck too. BTDT

As Tom S said in Quigley, " I said I never had much use for it, not that I didn't know how".

Don’t disagree with your method & am working on a new setup with lighted reticle, hash marks & dial for next year deer on my old be 7mm. I’m intimately familiar with its trajectory and It will be even more capable.

Wind on the other hand is not controllable or predictable in hunting situations after a certain speed. I’ve practiced in 10-15 mph gusts & killed in similar wind conditions out to 500 yards but over 20-25 mph 300+ yards my adjustment is - Don’t shoot.

I hunt in a lot of different terrain. My rifles that I use in thick timber, I'm not going to bother with exposed turrets or busy reticles. There aren't opportunities for shots beyond 300 yards, therefore, not much of a point. But I have places I hunt with large fields, meadows, and clear cuts. I'll take a more potent cartridge and something with more capability for that type of hunting. I've taken two animals this year that required dialing; 670 meters and 460 meters. In the past I've killed many animals at 600+ and varmints out to 1200. Though, the vast majority of animals I've killed have been in thick timber under 200 yards. Hell, most have been with archery equipment. I'm no stranger to dialing, but not every hunter in every situation needs to have his gear setup for it.

On the flip, if I had one rifle, it would be setup to be capable as far as possible within reason. These days there are locking elevation turrets and capped windage. Bumping them out of adjustment in brush is no longer a valid excuse. If you're still living in 2005, buy some tape. Perform a quick glance before you squeeze the bang switch.

As you're not dialing-in with your scope, a 225 yd zero is ok for short range but for cartridges such as the .270 Win the traditional way would be to sight in 3" high at 100 yards on deer size game to maximize the cartridge's trajectory without shooting over the top of the vital zone of the animal. On a deer size animal you can easily hold dead on to 300 yards and only be low by maybe 2" which would still be in the vital zone. At 350 yards you can either hold on the backbone of a deer size animal or use the stadia lines on the scope. Its sometimes the case that you shoot at around 300 yards on a moving animal in which case you won't want your scope on 14 power, and it will be too confusing and you won't have time trying to work out what distance the stadia line corresponds to at a different magnification, assuming the reticle is in the second focul plane. 3" at 100 yards is about 275 yards zero at 3000 fps and a 140 grain projectile in the .270. Most hunters do not shoot much over 350 yards and if your friend needs you to sight in his rifle then he probably shouldn't be shooting over 350 yards anyway.

Not everyone has a range at their house so I’m happy to assist my friend with both mounting & sighting in his new scope. He isn’t a new hunter & not a great shot but does hunt elk every year so my help with this process may save a lost wounded animal. Part of my old guy giving back is helping new hunters shoot better - it’s worked for several young men & women who fill their freezers regularly now. Expect I’ll still have fresh venison even when I’m too old to hunt.

MPBR works fine and is lightning fast but from years of hunting I think in approximately 200 yard zero with 6, 16, 36” drops from pre-dial & hash mark days so everything at 360 & in is point & shoot on an elk. Cranking up to 15 as you point out makes running shots at 300 too challenging so my typical magnification is 5X outside of thick woods. Hash marks aren’t part of my process under 400 which covers about 95% of shots I would take.

Simple is best for me - sadly “don’t think meat you only hurt the ball club” is necessary when my adrenaline takes over & my focus shrinks to 10’ at 100 yards. So cranking magnification is still within my wheelhouse but dialing seems way too slow, cumbersome & prone to error for me.

I only have one rifle left that I consider long range-ish that still wears a duplex these days, but it works. It's a plain jane, late-model 257Wby SS Vanguard with a resprung HACT factory trigger. Makes a good loaner with its 250yd zero (115gr at 3,350fps). I'm about 3 inches low at 300yds and roughly 6 inches low at 350. The picket of the duplex is on at 400 (3-9x40 VX-2) and 450 is the picket plus about 6 inches. Some of those figures are rounded an inch or so here and there, but it's close enough for big game vitals and easy to remember.

When I rebarrel my .270WSM with an 8 twist, I should be able to zero at around 300 yards using the 140 grain SuperBulldozer at 3150 fps. At 350 yards I should still be able to aim dead on as drop is slightly over 4". I can start using the stadia lines at about 370 yards. Windage is just over 7" at 400 yards in a 10 mph cross-wind, which is where the real advantage over using 130's lie. This allows me to have a portable 7lb rifle including scope with moderate recoil that is very quick to acquire targets at the distances I shoot to.

You don't mind a midrange rise of nearly 4 inches? Some probably don't, but I'd perhaps flub some 175-200yd shots on smaller targets like coyotes or small pigs, as all my years with centerfires have me automatically holding dead on at those ranges when an animal steps out.

The 3.9" high is acceptable for big game and that is what the rifle is used for currently, especially when I think shots may be well past 300 yards. For the smaller game and smaller deer, I use an improved 6mm sighted in 2" high at 100 yards. For the very large game I use a .338 with 225's at 2950 fps sighted in 3" high at 100 yards. It isn't that difficult to hold marginally low (e.g. at the bottom of the vital zone) on shots around 150 to 200 yards if need be.

I agree that it's not difficult to hold a bit low at midrange but I've found it sometimes hard for me to remember to do in the heat of the moment if things are happening fast and my crosshairs are hitting the vitals. If I'd started out that way, it might be easier. The 3-3.5" high at 100yds thing sounded good for me years ago but it just didn't work out, so I went back to a 2.5"-ish midrange rise. Whatever works.....

It happens frequently that I aim for about 1/3 from the bottom for a shoulder shot and hit 2/3 up for a high "shoulder" shot on deer size game at mid-range shots. What you are doing is correct when you are shooting smaller species as well, I use a different gun in those circumstances that's sighted in with a smaller (smaller vital zone) MPBR. I do have to consciously remember to hold a bit low on mid-range shots on those occasions when I am shooting small game with a big game rifle.

Helped my friend yesterday with a new Burris 4-14x42 & his daughter as well. It took 7 shots to have him 1/4” off the small center dot at 225 yards with his Browning 300 Win Mag & he nailed the 500 yard elk rock first try. Easily the best I’ve seen him shoot.

His daughter shoots an old 721 in 30-06 we put the same scope on hers it took much longer & I had to shoot to verify because she is so inconsistent on the trigger. She is now 225-300 capable for elk which was not the case with her old vortex.

She also hit the rock at 500 and felt much more confident in her shooting but I told her keep it under 300 on anything not wounded & she plans to do that.

I’m hoping they have a successful elk hunt & feel like they have a much better shot than with their previous scopes that were difficult to see out of in good light. They don’t have to think until after 300 so that should improve their chances as well.

The average hunter does not want to spin turrets or shoot 800 yds. The old 2" high at 100 yd or dead on at 200 - 225 yds has worked for many years. You so called long range hunters/ shooters need to get over yourselves.

There was once in olden times before hashmarks and clicky twisty scopes there was a tribe of riflemen in the hills of Jefferson ( Appalachia West). These backward rustics shot crosshair reticles accurately to 500 and beyond. They were poorly armed, mostly .30-06's, shooting home brewed ammo resulting in launching .430 to .450 bc slugs at around 2,800 (Barsness' load, hmm) Just so happens, the lowly Hornady 165 Interlock BT fit the bill close enough. The rustics sighted their primitive rifles to zero at 35 and 185 yds. The result of this strange practice that from muzzle to 200 yds you were never more than 1.5 in high.
Going on out to 200yds (we'd call it bracket 1)...so what was our drop? We'd square the bracket number..1X1=1". Moving out to 250yds was bracket 2...so our drop at 250 was:2X2=4". Moving out to 300, bracket 3, so:3X3=9". At each 50 yd interval a bracket or station, whatever is assigned, square the bracket number to get your drop. 500 yd ?...ok, bracket 7, 7X7=49". And because of the elevations found in Jefferson, 3,000 to 8,000 ft which flattens the curve a little, the rustics got pretty consistent hits on 1.5 moa steel targets out to 700. Imagine the simplicity.

I'm the boring guy that shoots a mark v in '06 with a 10 power scope. I don't spin turrets or really care to. " Hey wait til I can range you and dial my scope then I'll be ready". Don't really care what people do as it don't matter to me but if you have a scoped out rifle and can't get within 400 yards of the animal then, then I guess it ain't hunting at that point. Put that dude 2 inches high at 100 yards and go get meat. Just my opinion.

I don't pick a zero - I let it fall where it may because I tend to decide the max rise above line of sight. I normally keep it at or below 3 inches. Just happens to correlate between 225 and 260/270 depending on bullet initial velocity and BC.

Why 3 inches? Most deer have a 6-7 inch vital area. A max 3 inch rise above line of sight lands the bullet inside of a 6-7 inch vital area without thinking about it. Basically keeping max midrange rise to 3 inches allows dead on holds out to 250 to 300 yards for most cartridges I shoot. I'm way too simple to do much thinking when things show up close-ish and I don't have time to think through trajectory variables.