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Joined: Jul 2009
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jul 2009
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Don’t you people get mad at the recipients, get mad at the people that don’t take the time to write for the deserving! When there is no war the military has to make up stuff to justify importance.
The irony is when real dirt eating combat is in the works genuine award deserving heroism is so common it often goes unnoticed. Simple small unit esprit de corp drives heroism.
Last edited by JohnnyLoco; 11/23/22.
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Joined: Oct 2004
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Oct 2004
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I don't even bother suggesting the military as an option to young people anymore. Recruiting is dangerously low in all of the armed forces.
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Joined: Jun 2003
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Campfire 'Bwana
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OP
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 42,620 Likes: 1 |
Update, this morning, "Wild Bill" took his last cut, an "OK three wire" at 0225hrs. At least he got credit for a night trap. RIP.
A good principle to guide me through life: “This is all I have come to expect, standard lackluster performance. Trust nothing, believe no one and realize it will only get worse…”
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Joined: Oct 2005
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Oct 2005
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While reading "With the Old Breed at Peleliu and Okinawa" it occurred to me that every Marine stretcher bearer who ever went out under fire to bring in a wounded soldier deserved to be highly decorated. Yet it was a very common occurrence and I never heard of anyone getting decorated for it, with the obvious exception of the Purple Heart. Because a high percentage of stretcher bearers got shot.
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Joined: Dec 2005
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Campfire Tracker
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Hopefully, in the future, these will be rescinded as were the 900 Civil War Medals of Honor.
$$$ TRUMP AT THE PUMP 2024 $$$
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Joined: Jun 2012
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Jun 2012
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Hopefully, in the future, these will be rescinded as were the 900 Civil War Medals of Honor. Or more recently, President Trump rescinding the Navy Achievement Medals given to the corrupt shyster military lawyers for the dishonest persecution of Navy Seal team leader, Chief Eddie Gallagher.
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Joined: Jan 2001
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2001
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Sorry to hear of this Jorge! A Thank You out to your friend for his service to our nation! memtb
You should not use a rifle that will kill an animal when everything goes right; you should use one that will do the job when everything goes wrong." -Bob Hagel
“I’d like to be a good rifleman…..but, I prefer to be a good hunter”! memtb 2024
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Joined: Feb 2010
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2010
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Update, this morning, "Wild Bill" took his last cut, an "OK three wire" at 0225hrs. At least he got credit for a night trap. RIP. RIP Wild Bill. 🫡 Nickel on the grass. There’s a One Eyed Jack waiting for him down at midrats.
NRA Life,Endowment,Patron or Benefactor since '72.
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Joined: Jul 2011
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Jul 2011
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Not military related but on the same point.
My friend Roy was the first recipient of out departments Medal of Valor. He saved 2 handcrew members when they were overrun on a brush fire. 2 others died. A couple years later our department has a float in the Rose Parade with MOV members on it except Roy isn't on it. He had no idea it was in the works. They got some black kid on it with a year on the job and never got any closer to brush fires than what he saw on TV. When Roy asked about it he was told that the kid was some kind of expert on antique American LaFrance fire engines. Complete bullshit!! Nobody from our museum had any idea who he was. Apparently he was some kind of rising star on the department but instead is a complete turd.
I'm nearly 10 years retired but I probably could not function in today's fire service.
Fight fire, save lives, laugh in the face of danger.
Stupid always finds a way.
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Joined: Feb 2004
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Feb 2004
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Update, this morning, "Wild Bill" took his last cut, an "OK three wire" at 0225hrs. At least he got credit for a night trap. RIP. Sorry to hear about your Shipmate Jorge. That is tough duty. RIP Wild Bill and thank you for a job well done. Jim
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Joined: Mar 2013
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Campfire Regular
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The difference's in criteria the various services, and even units, use for awards has always been a subject of ridicule and scorn. I saw it in the Navy in the various wings, other services and the conflicts I served in and IMO you really need to just be able to look at your own ribbon rack and be able to say to yourself "yea, I deserve that". I retired with 6 rows of ribbons but the one's that were really important to me were the couple with "V"s on them. The rest were just "I was there" and "nice job" stuff.
But as an aviator the misuse of the DFC hits particularly hard. The fact they were airborne is irrelevant as they were not crew performing a job required for the mission. The could have done the same mission in a bus.
Criteria: The Distinguished Flying Cross Medal (DFC) is an award that is bestowed upon any officer of enlisted personnel of the United States Armed Forces who distinguishes themselves in support of operations by "heroism or extraordinary achievement while participating in aerial flight."
A bronze star, while still an overreach, would be far more appropriate.
Criteria: The Bronze Star Medal (BSM or BSV) is an award presented to United States Armed Forces personnel for bravery, acts of merit or meritorious service. When awarded for combat heroism it is awarded with a V device for Valor. It is the fourth highest combat award of the Armed Forces.
But then I retired 16 years ago and even then the Navy was getting unrecognizable from the one I was commissioned with 1987. I know all generations say that but the policy and cultural changes (not mission, not capability)the last 20 years in the Navy dwarf any other period I can think of in their proud history. I hate for this thread to get stupid, especially with Jorge’s loss, but I’ve got to reply to this… 1. The whole crew is getting the DFC, not just the Loadmaster. 1-O-5, 2-O-3’s and 1- E-whatever. 2. The Loadmaster is a required crew member with in-flight duties. Since the C-17 deleted both the Nav and the Flight Engineer, the Loadmaster takes over several of those duties. I ain’t gonna lie and say that “at cruise” the Load had a lot to do, but neither do the pilots. I’m also not condoning this award of the DFC in the slightest, but your understanding of “flying” with respect to a USAF C-17 crew is lacking. 2 pilots and 1 Loadmaster is required for any C-17 flight at all times, and the crew of 3 (or 5, depending on duty day) is a flight crew in any definition. It’s a very rare circumstance that the Loadmaster does not fulfill a required and valuable crew position in even a basic air land training sortie.
Intellectual honesty is the most important character trait in human beings.
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Joined: Feb 2017
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Campfire Tracker
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Joined: Feb 2017
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DFC for delivering a baby?
Give me a break!
I Delivered 4 of 'em in the ambulance when I was a paramedic. The mommy does most of the work. I guess I should get the Distinguished Driving Cross. Ditto that. And to think I was happy to have been thanked by the new parents.
Yours in Liberty,
BL
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Joined: May 2010
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: May 2010
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With the Air Force leading the way. As am aside, a good friend of mine has hours to live. Vietnam era Naval Aviator, flew F/RF-8s in Vietnam and holder of the Silver Star and four Distinguished Flying Crosses, so I'll just leave this here" linkPost script" At least one of our members here, holds that decoration, not me. If I did, I'd give it back. How I despise democrats Still a good read at 00:24 hours, sir.
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Joined: Mar 2013
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Mar 2013
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Another thing to keep in mind is that “militarytimes” is notoriously inaccurate and inflammatory (click-bait) in their reporting.
The DFC may be for something completely different than what is reported.
Intellectual honesty is the most important character trait in human beings.
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Joined: Apr 2004
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 42,819 Likes: 4 |
Participation trophy. I'm shocked. Exactly what I was thinking... EVERYONE gets a trophy... For the ones that actually earned something, they have my respect and gratitude... A Participation Trophy turns it all to dust... and here I thought that was limited to grade schools and boy scouts.
"Minus the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the Country" Marion Barry, Mayor of Wash DC
“Owning guns is not a right. If it were a right, it would be in the Constitution.” ~Alexandria Ocasio Cortez
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Joined: Jun 2003
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Campfire 'Bwana
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OP
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 42,620 Likes: 1 |
The difference's in criteria the various services, and even units, use for awards has always been a subject of ridicule and scorn. I saw it in the Navy in the various wings, other services and the conflicts I served in and IMO you really need to just be able to look at your own ribbon rack and be able to say to yourself "yea, I deserve that". I retired with 6 rows of ribbons but the one's that were really important to me were the couple with "V"s on them. The rest were just "I was there" and "nice job" stuff.
But as an aviator the misuse of the DFC hits particularly hard. The fact they were airborne is irrelevant as they were not crew performing a job required for the mission. The could have done the same mission in a bus.
Criteria: The Distinguished Flying Cross Medal (DFC) is an award that is bestowed upon any officer of enlisted personnel of the United States Armed Forces who distinguishes themselves in support of operations by "heroism or extraordinary achievement while participating in aerial flight."
A bronze star, while still an overreach, would be far more appropriate.
Criteria: The Bronze Star Medal (BSM or BSV) is an award presented to United States Armed Forces personnel for bravery, acts of merit or meritorious service. When awarded for combat heroism it is awarded with a V device for Valor. It is the fourth highest combat award of the Armed Forces.
But then I retired 16 years ago and even then the Navy was getting unrecognizable from the one I was commissioned with 1987. I know all generations say that but the policy and cultural changes (not mission, not capability)the last 20 years in the Navy dwarf any other period I can think of in their proud history. I hate for this thread to get stupid, especially with Jorge’s loss, but I’ve got to reply to this… 1. The whole crew is getting the DFC, not just the Loadmaster. 1-O-5, 2-O-3’s and 1- E-whatever. 2. The Loadmaster is a required crew member with in-flight duties. Since the C-17 deleted both the Nav and the Flight Engineer, the Loadmaster takes over several of those duties. I ain’t gonna lie and say that “at cruise” the Load had a lot to do, but neither do the pilots. I’m also not condoning this award of the DFC in the slightest, but your understanding of “flying” with respect to a USAF C-17 crew is lacking. 2 pilots and 1 Loadmaster is required for any C-17 flight at all times, and the crew of 3 (or 5, depending on duty day) is a flight crew in any definition. It’s a very rare circumstance that the Loadmaster does not fulfill a required and valuable crew position in even a basic air land training sortie. I don't see where Pugs' comments where at odds with anything you posted. NONE of the crew whether in the cockpit or elsewhere did anything deserving of a DFC. As to your second post, the picture clearly shows a DFC hanging from her BDUs.
A good principle to guide me through life: “This is all I have come to expect, standard lackluster performance. Trust nothing, believe no one and realize it will only get worse…”
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,019
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,019 |
The difference's in criteria the various services, and even units, use for awards has always been a subject of ridicule and scorn. I saw it in the Navy in the various wings, other services and the conflicts I served in and IMO you really need to just be able to look at your own ribbon rack and be able to say to yourself "yea, I deserve that". I retired with 6 rows of ribbons but the one's that were really important to me were the couple with "V"s on them. The rest were just "I was there" and "nice job" stuff.
But as an aviator the misuse of the DFC hits particularly hard. The fact they were airborne is irrelevant as they were not crew performing a job required for the mission. The could have done the same mission in a bus.
Criteria: The Distinguished Flying Cross Medal (DFC) is an award that is bestowed upon any officer of enlisted personnel of the United States Armed Forces who distinguishes themselves in support of operations by "heroism or extraordinary achievement while participating in aerial flight."
A bronze star, while still an overreach, would be far more appropriate.
Criteria: The Bronze Star Medal (BSM or BSV) is an award presented to United States Armed Forces personnel for bravery, acts of merit or meritorious service. When awarded for combat heroism it is awarded with a V device for Valor. It is the fourth highest combat award of the Armed Forces.
But then I retired 16 years ago and even then the Navy was getting unrecognizable from the one I was commissioned with 1987. I know all generations say that but the policy and cultural changes (not mission, not capability)the last 20 years in the Navy dwarf any other period I can think of in their proud history. I hate for this thread to get stupid, especially with Jorge’s loss, but I’ve got to reply to this… 1. The whole crew is getting the DFC, not just the Loadmaster. 1-O-5, 2-O-3’s and 1- E-whatever. 2. The Loadmaster is a required crew member with in-flight duties. Since the C-17 deleted both the Nav and the Flight Engineer, the Loadmaster takes over several of those duties. I ain’t gonna lie and say that “at cruise” the Load had a lot to do, but neither do the pilots. I’m also not condoning this award of the DFC in the slightest, but your understanding of “flying” with respect to a USAF C-17 crew is lacking. 2 pilots and 1 Loadmaster is required for any C-17 flight at all times, and the crew of 3 (or 5, depending on duty day) is a flight crew in any definition. It’s a very rare circumstance that the Loadmaster does not fulfill a required and valuable crew position in even a basic air land training sortie. I don't see where Pugs' comments where at odds with anything you posted. NONE of the crew whether in the cockpit or elsewhere did anything deserving of a DFC. As to your second post, the picture clearly shows a DFC hanging from her BDUs. He said “they were not crew performing a job required for the mission ”- I get what he’s saying, but I disagree. The Loadmaster was performing important in-flight duties, and also a baby was born. The fact that there were airborne is EXACTLY why this is a DFC and not a BSM- that’s the definition of the award. WRT the second post, what I mean is that they may have been awarded the DFC for a bunch of stuff, oh , and also a baby was born… that’s the kind of reporting you get out of military times. Once again I’m reiterating that at most, this was an Air Medal mission.
Intellectual honesty is the most important character trait in human beings.
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Joined: Mar 2020
Posts: 587
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Mar 2020
Posts: 587 |
The USAF I served in is long gone. Sickening. Both demonrats and republicrats have served to diminish a great fighting force. Brother, I'm with you. That's not the AIR FORCE i served in, back in the 1960's !!!!!!
"not too grumpy"
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 24,262 Likes: 10
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 24,262 Likes: 10 |
Update, this morning, "Wild Bill" took his last cut, an "OK three wire" at 0225hrs. At least he got credit for a night trap. RIP. rip bill dying breed of men
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Joined: Jan 2009
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,989 |
Update, this morning, "Wild Bill" took his last cut, an "OK three wire" at 0225hrs. At least he got credit for a night trap. RIP. I’ll bet that final flight to Glory was spectacular! Blessings for his family and you. Happy Thanksgiving!
America, Our Country and we’re taking it back.
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