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Joined: Oct 2017
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I'll tell you something funny. I've been trying to think of who I know personally to pick their brain on this topic and when I looked at the Cast Bullet Ass. website right away I saw the pictures of the guys at Wind Hill, Dan and Bill are my Uncles very good friends. I see Dan quite often as my uncle sees him all the time and they go to Tulsa together and have for many years.

Dont get me wrong, I will spend plenty of time working on this. Just need the weather to warm up. I do appreciate your help.

GB1

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Talked with Dan Hudson today for about an hour and he assured my it shouldn't be a problem getting the bench accuracy I want to achieve. He said John is really having good luck with the 224 cast bullets so when my registration gets approved at Cast Bullet Assoc I will try to get ahold of him.

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I've ran the .225 LBT FN GC 48 grainer spec'd with wheelweight metal for close to 20 years; 22 Hornets, K Hornets, its my primary 22 Jet revolver bullet and 222's at or around 2,900 fps with heat treated metal. The bullet basically resembles the Bator bullet above, except it is full diameter to the ogive and not bore riding on the nose. My experience with bore riding is that it is finicky from gun to gun or if imbalanced in the mold, won't shoot worth a hoot if pressed with speed, twist or pressure. I don't like long "hanging" noses as they lack support and add another variable to keeping balance in multiple arms.

I can honestly say I've never had 5 shot groups go over an inch, if even close. I primarily use it in a .223 groove, 1-16 22 Hornet with 12.5grs. Lil'Gun where it runs 7/8th inch for five shot groups. Its best was 3 touching and 2 out a smidge, with the 48 LBT. I do have a bore ride 63grainer I've ran to 2,900 with one 222 Mag that shot awesome.
I've ran Lino in the little LBT too for inside 100 yd. explosive effect; not as small of groups, but not above an inch and the small flat makes it fragment in large chunks. All of my cast loads "kiss" lands and if a little throat contact is made, the better.

The most important advice that so far has been omitted is nose first sizing, lube and check installation. Any decent bullet can be turned into garbage when sizing, lubing or installing a gas check, despite the utmost care or what one thinks is super hard alloy.

Always size nose first for rifle accuracy, any accuracy, especially if a gas check is used. Base first, gas check first is a good way to turn a great bullet into an unbalanced hunk of metal. The check should be the last piece going into any sizing die. If using an in and out sizer/lubricator, lube with an oversized die (I use a .227 in in and out sizers for 22's). This may leave the check loose but the sizing or potential to mis-align is limited and can be corrected in a .225 die during the nose first final sizing.
If you have access to a Star sizer or other nose first sizer, this isn't as much an issue and eliminates the two step process.

Not all lubes work well the length or a rifle barrel and fewer work well at high ambient temps, barrel temps and high pressure.
I use LBT Blue and it will flat not lead at these speeds/pressures. My homemade stuff made of beeswax with enough Lucas synthetic stabilizer to soften works as well too. I'm sure there are others, but keep the lube in mind if you get frosty lead near the muzzle.

A cupped punch that goes around the edge of a check as its swaged on during the nose first sizing process will eliminate uneven seating of the check and make a uniform, accurate finished bullet. Star can furnish you with one or an in and out sizer can use a steel spitzer style punch. Flat punches can index off of a raised sprue, causing the check to mis align. Yes, the base matters and if it doesn't align from tail to nose its the primary reason people don't have success with home brewed cast bullets. The beauty of it is that its self inflicted and hence can be self corrected if understood.

I generally try to make the bullets run at or near jacketed speeds and powder charges; if you are successful in doing so anything less serious or lighter is already done and the variable of the bullet is generally a formality.

From what I have read in the Fouling Shot, Dan will be a tremendous help and probably will have more to add with possibly a shortcut or two.

All of this may sound complicated, but once you find your setup, rinse and repeat and it can be easy.

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Hawk I,

Thank you for all the info but some of it is over my head right now. I have never used gas checks so Im having a hard time figuring out how you size nose first and crimp your GC on. I do have a Star sizer of my uncles Im using but I dont see on the Magma website that sells and supports them where additional sizers are available. looking for the proper sizer to use.

I will have to read through this a couple times and talk with Dan some more maybe.

Thanks again.

Glenn

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Glenn,

The Magma site is extensive; I would toggle each header because stuff is located everywhere.
Star Sizer

They are old school in that they will require you to call them and you get to talk to an actual well spoken young lady to place orders or inquiries. I would have Dan help you on the throat diameter and get what size he recommends with your chosen bullet mold and alloy and a cupped punch for gas checks.

She will know what you are asking for when you say "I need a .22X Star sizer die and a cupped .22 gas check punch for it". Their turnaround right now or at least this fall was about a week and the dies are 70 bucks, the punches I think are 25.
Check out the site for how to video instructions, which I'm sure you have.

The easy button for a production mold and production guns is .225 diameter and linotype or heat treated metal. IIRC, Dan is a lino/hardball alloy guy. Lino casts larger and might fit the throat better and with your mold might allow a larger size die, but its expensive and getting harder to find.


The instructions for the punch and die settings are here for lube hole spacing:
Punch and Die Settings

She will ask for that too.

The Star sizer operates by having the bullet fed nose first. The gas check is applied to the base and the punch pushes the bullet through the die and the gas check is swaged through the die last, being indexed off of the bullet, rather than the opposite in an in and out sizer. The lube is pressurized with a handle and lubes the bullet when the punch is fully lowered (look at the hole spacing diagram). Another checked bullet is fed and as it is fed the finished bullet ejects from the bottom.

Nate

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