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Joined: May 2002
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 15,663 Likes: 5 |
If everyone would quit buying cheap dots the whole failure thing wouldn't be an issue. I think cheap dots are great. But I don't have one on a handgun yet. I now have 2 of the Sig Romeo 5s on rifles. Can't see it getting too much better. I've only got one handgun that came ready to accept the RDS. I've only had it since august and am enjoying it the way it came. But I expect it'll eventually wear the dot. A knowledgeable friend tells me that I'm limited by footprint of the cut-out on the P365X as to what I can readily mount. The Romeo Zero stands out as a likely candidate, in my mind, simply because of my experience with the Romeo5. In a sort of backhanded rebuttal of TRH's complication vs simplicity remarks, I'd say that even if newer and advanced technology is used, there is no simpler sighting system than a dot sight. It puts the alignment of front and rear sights in the same light as the use of the bronze sword.
"Chances Will Be Taken"
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Joined: May 2007
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: May 2007
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I’ve seen a lot of people transition from irons to dots, (Edited To Add...at this point several hundred people), of varying age, vision, and shooting ability. I’ve also now seen many shooters start out directly with dots.
With proper instruction they have all, all, been as fast up close and more accurate at long distance (50 yards as an example).
The biggest improvement is in the 15-30 yard range. Hitting reasonable size targets at speed is hard and anybody who disagrees is welcome to post up targets with times. Those previously hard shots become very obtainable.
Dots have essentially doubled my pistol engagement distance with no downside up close.
The key is seeking out the proper presentation technique. But if you’re not willing to do that then you’re probably not willing to purchase a quality dot or keep up with battery life or maintain the skills you acquired.
And that’s fine, iron sights still work. But it’s undeniable that they work as well for someone willing to learn something new.
your flippant remarks which you so adeptly sling
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Joined: Jan 2007
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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wasn't so long ago a lot of proponents of concealed carry would always say you need smooth lines no sharp edges hammerless revolvers.. now we're sticking a big old awkward Red Dot up on it to snag on everything. not saying necessarily they're bad I'm just saying it's kind of odd the same people preach that 10 years apart
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Joined: May 2007
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: May 2007
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A lot of people have mentioned "keeping it simple".
Remember, the goal is not to just possess a simple pistol. The goal is to have a reliable, repeatable, simple shooting process and if you want to keep it simple, I can think of no greater benefit than eliminating sight alignment and sight picture during the shot process.
1-See target and present the pistol. 2-Subconsciously know what level of sight alignment is necessary for the shot difficulty presented. 3-Obtain that level of sight alignment. 4-Verify the proper sight alignment is at the correct place on the target. 5-Subconsciously know where your visual focus needs to be for the shot difficulty presented. 6-Shift visits focus as needed…..Sometimes this will require you to stop looking at the thing that wants to kill you.
Or…. 1-See target and present pistol. 2-See red dot on target.
your flippant remarks which you so adeptly sling
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Joined: May 2007
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: May 2007
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wasn't so long ago a lot of proponents of concealed carry would always say you need smooth lines no sharp edges hammerless revolvers.. now we're sticking a big old awkward Red Dot up on it to snag on everything. not saying necessarily they're bad I'm just saying it's kind of odd the same people preach that 10 years apart Have you ever had one snag on clothing during the draw?
your flippant remarks which you so adeptly sling
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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,116 Likes: 8
Campfire Regular
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OP
Campfire Regular
Joined: Jul 2013
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Blue.....do you have any recommendations for sights?....if I am going to try this out I want to start with a good platform......bob
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Joined: May 2007
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: May 2007
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I shot my carry gun (M&P 2.0 Compact with a DPP) yesterday in a training class.
The front sight nearly slid out of the dovetail, again, and I had to beat it back in place with a flashlight so it wouldn't fall off and get lost. That happens every hundred rounds or so, even after I've tried staking it in place by peening the dovetail down around it. If you shoot enough you'll see plenty of iron sights fail, too.
If everyone would quit buying cheap dots the whole failure thing wouldn't be an issue. what are some that you like that will hold up?....not looking for cheap willing to pay for quality......bob The new Leupold DPPs seem to be good (but the illumination controls are awkward), the Trijicons are good (but make sure you can manually adjust the brightness), and the Aimpoint P2 is exceptiona (but prints more than any of the others).
your flippant remarks which you so adeptly sling
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Joined: Jul 2013
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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Joined: Jan 2007
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2007
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wasn't so long ago a lot of proponents of concealed carry would always say you need smooth lines no sharp edges hammerless revolvers.. now we're sticking a big old awkward Red Dot up on it to snag on everything. not saying necessarily they're bad I'm just saying it's kind of odd the same people preach that 10 years apart Have you ever had one snag on clothing during the draw? no, nor have I have i felt the the need to Bob hammers smooth and dehorn on any weapon I've carried.. reread how I worded that
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Joined: Sep 2009
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Campfire Regular
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IMO reflex sights are great for range guns and distance shooting. In my experience they are more accurate than iron sights and I have them on several pistols, BUT my EDC pistols wear tritium night sights and by nightstand pistol has a streamlight TLR8 laser and flashlight on it.
In most cases having to use an EDC pistol is measured in feet not yards. I don't need or use a reflex sight for that distance.
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Joined: Feb 2009
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 4,870 Likes: 5 |
Curious as to how much the dot sight gets in the way when clearing malfunctions. Keep mind I've never shot with one, it seems like it would be awkward clearing stove pipes, working a tap/rack/bang, clearing jams etc. Much different than with iron sights alone, when that Oh Sheit! moment comes?
Last edited by SBTCO; 02/07/23.
“Some ideas are so stupid that only intellectuals believe them.” ― G. Orwell
"Why can't men kill big game with the same cartridges women and kids use?" _Eileen Clarke
"Unjust authority confers no obligation of obedience." - Alexander Hamilton
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Joined: May 2007
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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Just grab it and use it like a handle.
your flippant remarks which you so adeptly sling
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Joined: Jun 2005
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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Not a good idea with a Holosun 407. You can easily turn the dot off by pressing the + and - button simultaneously with a finger.
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Joined: Jun 2003
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jun 2003
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Not a good idea with a Holosun 407. You can easily turn the dot off by pressing the + and - button simultaneously with a finger. I used the lock mode feature to prevent that from happening.
Last edited by Cheyenne; 02/07/23. Reason: Change terminology
"Don't believe everything you see on the Internet" - Abraham Lincoln
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Joined: May 2007
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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That’s a feature that I would immediately disable if I could. If I couldn’t I wouldn’t buy something with a design face like that.
your flippant remarks which you so adeptly sling
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Joined: Apr 2005
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 31,007 Likes: 11 |
Not a good idea with a Holosun 407. You can easily turn the dot off by pressing the + and - button simultaneously with a finger. Not on a 507 K or C
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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Joined: Dec 2010
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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As Blue said…you end up giving up nothing up close, and most assuredly gain for farther away. Win-win. If you’re sound in the mechanics of draw and presentation, you will pick up the dot/circle as you would your sights, or technically as one with your sights if co-witnessed. As for draw snags, if you clear the clothing properly on the pre-draw motion, it should not be an issue. Put the work in first before trusting your life to it. As an added thought, and hopefully you’d never need to, but the RMR style sights give you a great area to use for slide racking if God forbid, you’re down to one usable hand in a situation. I see no drawback to weapon clearing/manipulation with an RMR sight, at least for the two I run anyway. (Shield RMSc and Holosun 507k x2) To each their own though.😎
Livin ain’t killed me yet, but it’s workin on it!
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Joined: Aug 2002
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Aug 2002
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Plus it's not a part of the gun that prints in CC. I personally don't see a down side to it other than it adds another level of possible failure but that can be reduced by choice, practice and maintenance.
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Joined: Jun 2002
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Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
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Not a good idea with a Holosun 407. You can easily turn the dot off by pressing the + and - button simultaneously with a finger. Another example of a failure to KISS.
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Joined: Nov 2006
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Campfire Outfitter
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For those that think holsters are hard to find for mounting these huge obtrusive red dots… The 507C rides right on my belt. That’s a G19 with a Langdon Tactical grip plug/mag well finisher/grip extension thingy.
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