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#18165718 02/22/23
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is there a universal pet load so to speak for M1A? 11 twist barrel you know a load that just seems to work in most of them that you tried in. picked one up today and will be the first time I've loaded for one and just finding a starting point. powders at first pop in my mind 4064, varget, 8208, 748 .. and like a 155 Sierra Palma match bullet. Sierra 168 mk or a Hornady 168 match.. once people who's loaded for these think ?

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From Glenn Zediker’s white paper on the M-14.

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thanks !! PM returned

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4895, for some reason has never ever given the accuracy I wanted in any of my M1a’s.

My go-to load in any M1a I shoot is 41-42 grains of IMR-4064 behind a 168 SMK. If that doesn’t do it, scrap the rifle and move on.

Carried an M-14 a long time ago and dearly love it.

My current M1a has a National Match wood stock, a Harris (Harris- McMillian?) match barrel, TRW internals and was reworked by folks at the AMTU at Ft Benning an hour and a half north of me. Before that it was involved in a murder/suicide and sold later to me by our Sheriffs Department. 😳 She puts all of her shots in nickel sized groups at 100. Mean little girl


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41.5gr IMR 4895 under 168gr SMK was the "standard" when I started.

41.0gr IMR 4064 under 175gr SMK became my 600yd load.

The barrels I had would shoot anything well enough at 200 so Speer 125gr TNT gave a little less recoil for sitting rapid.

Good luck!

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haven't shot any yet but last night I loaded 40.5 grains h4895 and a 168 Hornady match.

would be very interested in data for 125 TNTs because I have a few thousand of them on hand.

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Originally Posted by ldholton
haven't shot any yet but last night I loaded 40.5 grains h4895 and a 168 Hornady match.

would be very interested in data for 125 TNTs because I have a few thousand of them on hand.


I'll see if I can find my old notes.

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Originally Posted by blindshooter
Originally Posted by ldholton
haven't shot any yet but last night I loaded 40.5 grains h4895 and a 168 Hornady match.

would be very interested in data for 125 TNTs because I have a few thousand of them on hand.


I'll see if I can find my old notes.

Found this in an old score book from the last match I shot with my last M1A.

42.0grs H4895 under 125gr TNT.
Checked a old Sierra manual and that's like a half grain under starting load.

It must have had enough pressure to operate the gun though.

The last date in that last score book was 1999 so things may have changed some.

YMMV (a lot!)

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Originally Posted by blindshooter
Originally Posted by blindshooter
Originally Posted by ldholton
haven't shot any yet but last night I loaded 40.5 grains h4895 and a 168 Hornady match.

would be very interested in data for 125 TNTs because I have a few thousand of them on hand.


I'll see if I can find my old notes.

Found this in an old score book from the last match I shot with my last M1A.

42.0grs H4895 under 125gr TNT.
Checked a old Sierra manual and that's like a half grain under starting load.

It must have had enough pressure to operate the gun though.

The last date in that last score book was 1999 so things may have changed some.

YMMV (a lot!)
thanks

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You need to be mindful of powders. Coming from the Garand I only load IMR4895.
I suggest that you do some research on the M1a.
No sense bending the op rod with the wrong powder.
Check out the CMP forums.

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Originally Posted by ldholton
haven't shot any yet but last night I loaded 40.5 grains h4895 and a 168 Hornady match.

would be very interested in data for 125 TNTs because I have a few thousand of them on hand.


In what type of brass?

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Originally Posted by mathman
Originally Posted by ldholton
haven't shot any yet but last night I loaded 40.5 grains h4895 and a 168 Hornady match.

would be very interested in data for 125 TNTs because I have a few thousand of them on hand.


In what type of brass?
that was in Canadian military brass marked IVI that load proved to have some cycling issues I'm not sure if it's from too hot (2760) or the brass switch the same load to LC match brass and it was a little lower on velocity and no issues but higher velocity than I was looking for. I settled on 39.5 H4895 LC match that ran around 2525 with the 168 Hornady.

and look like a good place to start fine tune from here

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now that I found the velocity / pressure range it seems to like I loaded up some more experimentals five at a time at first with 748, 8208, and then some 125 TNTs with IMR 4895 and some Berger 155.5 again with H4895 have to let the wind quit blowing and get the time to shoot them and see what they do..

get a good optic mounted up this thing might shoot

Last edited by ldholton; 02/27/23.
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Originally Posted by WStrayer
You need to be mindful of powders. Coming from the Garand I only load IMR4895.
I suggest that you do some research on the M1a.
No sense bending the op rod with the wrong powder.
Check out the CMP forums.
yes H 4895 seems to be the common followed closely by the IMR version..
depending on which source you use using the different slightly but use nothing slower burning than 4064 on one source or Sierra is saying 4320...

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I have no experience with IVI brass. I would never have thought 40.5 grains of H4895 would get a 168 going as fast as 2760. Too hot in that brass IMO.

I've been doing some chrono testing lately comparing the Hornady 168 bthp and the 168 Sierra Match King. The rifle is a Rem 40X with a generously throated 7.62 NATO spec chamber in its 27" barrel. In SIG brass loaded with 42 grains of recent production IMR 4064 the Hornady produced 2630 fps while the Sierra produced 2600. Nothing is free, so the Hornady is quite likely generating more pressure. Something to keep in mind if you're referencing classic M1A loads which used Sierras more often than not.

Quote
switch the same load to LC match brass and it was a little lower on velocity and no issues but higher velocity than I was looking for

What speed did that LC brass produce with 40.5?

The old Lake City M852 match (as loaded with the IMR 4895 of the time and 168 grain Sierras) was spec'd at 2550+/- 30 fps at 78 feet, which corresponds to 2600 +/- 30 fps MV.

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A lot of guys just take the powder charge for the heaviest bullet they shoot & apply it to all the lighter ones.


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What speed did that LC brass produce with 40.5?

if I remember correctly it was 80 ft per second slower than the IVI
but I will look at my notes when I get home and get back on that correct answer

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When I get back to the house for lunch I'll try to dig up some chrono data for comparative purposes.

Rem 700 5R Milspec, 24" barrel:

LC15 brass, CCI 200 primer, 41.5 gr IMR4895, 168 Hornady bthp, Vavg= 2566 fps for 17 shots
I also found 40.5 gr H4895 to be very good in the 5r, two 10 shot groups were sub-moa (thrown charges), didn't find chrono data on that one

Starline brass (heavy like LC), CCI 200 primer, 39 gr IMR3031, 168 Hornady bthp, Vavg= 2566 fps for 10 shots

LC67 Match brass, CCI 200 primer, 39 gr IMR3031, 168 Hornady bthp, Vavg= 2548 fps for 5 shots



Rem 700 XCR CT, 20" barrel:

LC15 brass, CCI 200 primer, "41.85" gr IMR4895, 168 Hornady bthp, Vavg= 2514 fps for 5 shots (The charge weight was an average of thrown charges.)

Last edited by mathman; 02/27/23. Reason: added text
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Originally Posted by mathman
... I've been doing some chrono testing lately comparing the Hornady 168 bthp and the 168 Sierra Match King. The rifle is a Rem 40X with a generously throated 7.62 NATO spec chamber in its 27" barrel. In SIG brass loaded with 42 grains of recent production IMR 4064 the Hornady produced 2630 fps ...

I forgot to mention I shot the same load with the Hornady in another rifle, a Rem 700 XCR LRT with a 26" barrel. Its chamber/throat is tighter than the one in the 40X and is, of course, a different barrel altogether. Even though it gave up an inch of length, the XCR barrel spit them out 55 fps faster.

These averages came from two tests of twenty shots fired over an Oehler 35P so I believe they're reliable.

The chamber/throat in your rifle may be helping to build pressure with lower charges. Of course component lots vary, but I've shot many lots of H4895 through many 308 rifles and the speeds you're seeing would get my attention.

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okay I may have misspoken on my first velocity.
41.5 grains H4895 yielded 2670 FPS in an IVI case
40.5 grains of H 4895 yielded 2570 FPS in an IVI case
39 grains H4895 yielded 2500 FPS in an IVI case

all these above were with a Hornady 168 BTHP match cci 250 (I'm trying to conserve my br2's and I do not have any 34)

39 grains of H4895 yielded 2410 FPS in LC match brass.
39.5 grains h4895 yielded 2525 FPS in LC match brass
according to Hornady number 10 manual 308 Winchester service rifle section. the 39 grains in an LC match case is pretty close to data but the other half a grain is making way too much difference I'm wondering if I miss wrote something in the 39.5 was supposed to be 40.5.
making a note to myself to double check that...
but there is a definite pattern of the ivi cases shooting extremely hot and I've done some research on last night and it seems to be a pattern reading about that case..

I'm going to shoot some more stuff I made last night to see what comes up..

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