Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Sporter class Bench rest caliber

My local gun club has ground hog shoots that are really a hillbilly version of Bench rest competitions. I am toying with giving the sporter /hunting rifle class a try. Weight limit is 10.5 lbs . Ranges of 100,200.300 yards Fives shots each. I am looking at a Ruger American Varmint, 223 or 6mm Creedmoor. Factory ammo abounds for both and hand loading is doable. Any advice advice/thoughts?

Have fun. Edk

The 300 yd line will determine the top competitors, wind and mirage (you didn't specify how many sighters are allowed) will win or lose matches...so I would select a cartridge with that as a primary consideration. Study those ballistic charts. Don't worry about recoil and fatigue, you got 10.5 pound rifle, 15 money shots, and a few sighters. I would also consider nixing a single shot...when the flags are consistent you want to get your money shots off NOW.

^

I have not ever shot in a rifle competition but I have shot varmints (prairie dogs) with both of those cartridges and also steel to 700 (both) and 800 with the 6mm.

The 6mm will out do the .223 in the wind. My .223 is around 10.5 lbs and the 6mm is 12 ish. I can spot my own shots with the .223 easily. The 6mm I have been able to spot them at 6-800 yards but not as easy. I’m assuming you would be allowed a spotter so maybe not a huge factor for you.

The .223 is much cheaper to shoot. Looks like an 8 twist in that rifle so I would look at 77 Sierra or 77/80 Hornady match. Those bullets put it closer to the 6mm but a typical 55 SP will drift significantly more. If it’s for fun then don’t worry about any of that and go have fun.

Get the best optics possible. At 300 yards those critters look pretty small. Sounds like a great time!

How about a Howa Mini in 6mm ARC?

At 300 yards and under them thar long sleek 77 grainers have absolutely no advantage over a 52 match.

I've got a 6mm Creedmoor and it's a fine cartridge.

Last year I started doing some precision loading for the 223, and wow! Using 77 grain OTM Berger bullets several of us had no problems shooting tight groups with it. Great bullet! Requires a 1:8 twist barrel.

For what you're describing, I'd opt for the 223 as it's less expensive to shoot and capable of fine accuracy. To me the 6's shine as the distance increases, even then I've seen 223's doing great at 600 yards.

Regards, Guy

Not sure how much you want to spend, or whether or not you reload but for what you’re describing, I’d be looking at one of the Cooper single shots in 6BR or 6PPC.

John

How about a .308 Win with something in the 165-175 grain range?

Or even a 6.5 Creedmoor?

Sighters are permitted at each yard line. I have been told that they have set weight limits for each class but do not weight rifles prior to matches. Many have said the matches are a lot of fun but there are a few shooters who think they are in a world class comp. The 223 has a following at the matches but, the 300 yard line can be problematic on windy days. But, the 223 is by far the cheapest way to get in the game but not necessarily in the winners circle. I did not consider the Howa 6mm ARC. The 6mm ARC would dictate less powder usage then the 6mm Creedmoor. The current demand for 6 mm bullets in the 100gr range is a problem. When you find them you had better buy them!

Yep, the 223 with 52 match really sucks ass at the 300 mark.



If you don’t have 3-4 wind flags out the wind is going to screw you no matter what.

…sorry, unless you’re shooting in no-wind tunnel, that is an absolutely wrong statement.

Before doing anything:

What are the sizes of the targets at all 3 yardages?

Are wind flags allowed? -Al

Wind flags are present, target is a ground hog shape with a 1 inch square in the center of a ringed target.

300 yards is not that difficult buy a AR-1O bolt rifle in a 6.5 Creedmoor that is ported ,put a good bench scope with target knobs / turrets like a Nightforce or another good brand . buy a good swivel bench bi-pod too.

Is the target scaled up at each yardage or the same 1" square at 100, 200, 300? -Al

Run the ballistics, do believe you will find that a 773000 and a 523400 are dead nuts together out to 260 yards. At 300 the 77 has 2.68 inches more drop but 2.1 inches less drift than the 52 so it’s pretty much a wash as you can deal with more drop or with more drift on the 52. Personally with flags out it’s just as easy to deal with windage as it is elevation. So where’s the definite advantage?

Well, drop is gravity and wind isn't. I'll take 2/3 MOA wind advantage on my side all day every day over any amount of "drop".

I'd happily give away 2 to 3 MOA of drop to gain 2/3MOA of drift in my favor.

I'm a little mixed up...you implied in the op you were shooting hillbilly bench rest, is that measuring groups? Or scoring rings on the totally immaterial ground hog, which to me means shooting for score...which is an different game. Counter to everyone else's opinion here (as usual) if you are shooting for score, on a range with flukey winds, I'd be thinking going old skool, heavy bullet in the Creedmoors or maybe even a 200 gr Matchking in the horrible old .308.Give up a point or 2 at 100 and maybe 200 to the wonder .22's...clean the 300 and take home the bacon. I assume best aggregate wins.

I'd be the jackass running something like this:



Like the little black kid that ran home all excited about winning a turkey. He said to momma, whoever had the longest peter wins the turkey. Momma said, boy I don't want you pulling out all your peter to win a turkey. Little boy says to momma. I didn't, I didn't. I only pulled out just enough to win it..

1917...A few jackasses like you have stolen turkeys and hams from my poor malnourished children. Grin. 'Sleepers' we call them, it looks like a hunting rifle, but it shoots like a heavy varmint class.

It’s been a lot of years ago . I owned two 40x Remingtons. One in 223 , the other in 6-47. The 6mm became popular over the famous 222 and 223 because it was supposed to Buck the wind a little better.
Low recoiling guns became famous for just that reason. A lot of shooting and recoil punishes you.
For what you are taking about I would consider the 308. Very accurate and great for distance you are talking about.
Hasbeen

I ran the numbers you provided thru JBM and the difference in wind drift at 10mph full value was 4 inches. I'd take 4 inches less wind at 300 every day. Bullet drop on a KD range is a known and constant variable. Wind drift is not. Miss a reversal, pick the wrong indicator and your 52's group is now 8 inches wider than the 77's.

How about a 77 out of a quick twist 22-250?

Less time of flight for even less drift?

I do have a 308 but it would fall into the unlimited class due to weight. A lot of guys shoot that class and wait time for a bench can be a issue. The sporter class is the least popular and has little to no wait times to shoot. That's why I am leaning toward the sporter/ hunting rifle class.

Heck, use your favorite deer rifle. Can't help but get better with it and it is supposed to be fun.

Yes, fun is goal but, there are people who can and will ruin a fun shoot!

They can only ruin your good time if you let them

Thems wise words!

X2.

Depends on what you already have I suppose. If you have something that'll work go do a couple and make sure you're enjoying it first. Also after a few shoots you'll have a better idea of what you want/need and can make a better informed decision.

-Jake

For a factory gun, Savage 6BR. If you can customize a little bit 6 dasher or 6AI One of the old Sako 6 ppc would be great. Depends on the particular rules. I am a match director for benchrest matches here locally. The 6mm usually come out on top at 300 yards. Practice and reload your own if you can

This makes sense. Plus you might be surprised how helpful your competitors can be. I've only shot one comp. IDPA. Got some good pointers. Even saw a guy race to his car to get his spare pistol for a competitor who's gun puked.

Shhhhh. You aren't supposed to tell anyone..

Exactly^^^^

just getting ready to say this exact same thing..

I looked at a Savage 6mmBR for the same reason as the OP but the club had a higher weight limit at around 13 lbs if I remember correctly. I could only find the Savage 6mmBR that tipped the scales around 12 lbs. You were not allowed to change stocks or cut the barrel, it had to be factory except for the trigger. It would never make weight when adding the scope and mount to it.
With the OP weight limit at 10.5 lbs, unless they allow you to chop the barrel and change stocks, I don't think the Savage will work, unless there is another model I did not see.

The winners of VFS (Varmint for Score) matches at my club all use 6mm Somethings too.

Annie Oakley would be comfortable with a 10/22.

I like this.

kwg

Of course, if they run it according to IBS rules then all cartridges must have minimum 45 grains case capacity(30-30) to qualify for VFS/HTR class. For those that have to look, 243 is the start. Ahh and scope power limited to 6X

https://internationalbenchrest.com/documents/folder/rules/rulebook_for_score_discipline

Pg. 24

There are no case capacity rules in either the IBS or NBRSA V.F.S. class.

IBS 'Hunter' (10 lbs, repeater action, 2.25" fore end and 6X scope) has to be 45.0 gr of water (30-30) capacity.

IBS 'Varmint Hunter' is the same class w/o case capacity rules.

The NBRSA 'Hunter' class has no case capacity rules.

Yes Al I know. They changed that and pussified it back around 2000. Seems the NBRSA guys couldn’t hit the target unless they had a 3” forearm and a 36 to 45 power fixed scope on their 6 PPC which we all know is just what 90% of hunters carry in the field. Completely fugged it up to drawing new shooters. Real fun going to a hunter match with your favorite deer or dog gun and be put up against a full blown bench gun.
After that rule change we saw a 60% drop in participation. In fact one of the longest running state sanctioned fun matches is now dead due to that change. 1991-2017. In 91 the match had 130 shooters in 7 classes, 2017 the match drew 9 shooters in 3 classes the other 4 were cancelled due to none or only one entrant.
Pure Benchrester who took over as match director totally fugged up what was an annual family fun match and turned into no fun and no participation. Typical.

I guess extreme 'gamesmanship' is the American way. As originally intended, NRA Sporting Rifle High Power was intended to get us hunters off our asses and get some fun practice. When first instituted, most clubs scheduled their matches a week or two before deer season. Average Joe's participated, it was a success, out came the deer rifles. In about 6 short years the purpose built rifles started showing up, built to just pass weigh in, in cartridges like the .222 and .221 Fireball. Pretty soon, Joe and his '06 or .270 were beaten so badly, it was no longer fun. So in another 5 years, Joe, predictably stayed home...and the game died. We as hunters owe a lot to the BR community in the way of knowledge and equipment...but it came with a price.

We used to do something like that. The distances were 300 and 600. The guy who organized it .. and won most of the matches .. shot a trued up 700 short action in 6mm BR with a 1-10" twist to launch 90 grain Bergers. The 90 had some advantage in the unknown breeze at 600.

At 100-200-300 I would go with .223 .. or maybe rechamber/set the barrel back and go with .222. Either 12 or 14 twist would be ok, 52 grain Sierras or Bergers unless you want to get real fancy.

You're off by a decade and a half. The NBRSA didn't drop the case capacity rule in Hunter class until 2015.


The NBRSA Hunter class has always been 10 lbs, repeater actions, 2.25" stocks and 6X max scopes.

The 3" stocks and unlimited scopes are in the Varmint Class (Varmint For Score).

Of course, none of this is germaine to the OP's original post which involves a fun style shoot. But inaccuracies, whether intentional or not, deserve to be corrected.

You guys are funny as hell, bringing all those NRA rules and such into what is supposed to be a "hillbilly" type match. Let's re-read the OP:



Now, you noticed the OP has not responded much after all the bs you guys spew about NRA this and rules that. I've shot a lot of these types of matches. Generally held by small clubs. They are intended to get people out shooting. Winning something, like a Turkey, ham, money is just the icing on the cake and quite alluring. You have all types of people at these shoots. Often times you'll have a master class shooter or 2 show up from the big cities. We see it at my club in Washington quite a bit. I'll generally not pull out my best rifles in these types of shoots, until the master class shooters come out of the woodworks, then the rules for me change. The reason you saw 4 certificates for Turkeys on the table in one of the pictures I posted earlier in this thread. There were only 6 turkeys being given away that year and I would have felt like an azz, taking all of them. I learned quite a while ago, when shooting for money and prizes in trap shoots, that you have to learn to sandbag on occasion. Keep it fun, let people shoot and only pull out the good stuff when you need/have to. That's my take on this thread..

WTH is an AR1O bolt rifle?

First off they were talking NBRSA not NRA if you re-read, two completely different entities.
there have to be rules even at a "hillbilly" match or a "BRC" or it's chaos.

Wasn't as much after a couple of guys started showing up at our local BR50 22 bench rest matches with Vudoo rifles and Nightforce scopes.

you must live in a sheltered area. we've been doing custom barrel 40x single shots for years which are still the staple for accuracy the new voodoo's and as another like remax are awesome rim fires don't get me wrong but they still cannot compete with a true 40x custom barrels benchrest gun

My local range has been doing these type of shoots during the warmer months for 5-6 years now. I’ve won a few but mostly just enjoy having a good time with like minded people.

Ours are shot at 200 yards. 10 varmints with varying values, each with a 5/8”-3/4” dot for an additional 10 points, 2 relays, 20 scored shots with 3 sighters for each relay. 800 points possible. Top score has been 710 a couple of times.

We have no weight limits or classes. We all game a little bit. It’s all part of the fun. Seems like we usually have around 15 shooters and shooters come and go through the years, hopefully the aren’t been pushed out by competition and gaming.

In our game it seems like little cases like 223s and 6 BRs have the advantage. A good rest is important. Calling the wind, good technique, and shooting the right target are the most important.

In our matches your biggest competitor may be more happy to spot for you or share his load recipe. I really enjoy the competition because it gives meaning to working harder to shoot better with your peers.

Hope this motivates you guys to get these matches going at your home ranges after all “shooting is America’s pastime”. Before every match we have the pledge of allegiance and guess what no-one takes a knee.

My Anshutz 54 has outshot more than a couple 40x s.

not knocking the they mentioned. but barrels properly placed in the 40xs with shilling Little Joe and such are pretty top-notch..

not knocking the they mentioned. but barrels properly placed in the 40xs with shilen lilja and such are pretty top-notch..

I have shot quite a few ground hog shoots. The longer range is the winning target. In the summer, 300 and beyond are difficult when mirage is running strong, you just can't see the bullet holes with smaller calibers. I would go with a 30 caliber.

it is a simple way of saying a precision rail type rifle looks just like a AR-10 but its not a semi-auto its a bolt action in a AR-10 type frame its the latest and some feel the greatest. i own one in a Ruger precision rifle chambered in a 6.5 Creedmoor and its accurate shoots 5 shoot groups at 100 yds 1/2 inch all day long. do i like this rifle ? not really but i had to see how well this type of rifle shoots . i would not wanna hunt with it but if America was invaded it would be the rifle i would use.

That is a tough target!

This “Hillbilly” shoot has already changed from a shooting match into a colossal pissing match. It didn’t take long to bring in fast twist and 6.5 Creedmoor.


What a joke, I never knew anyone close to being a hillbilly with anything like the ridiculous “better than his idea” type of gun. I would take a sporter weight rifle in 223 and shoot 40 grain bullets and surprise a bunch of gamers at just how good that will work.

Your barrel isn’t going to get hot, you will do well and then you can tell all the wannabe hillbillies that their Creedmoor and fast twist stuff never came close to a real hillbilly gun…

I tried to find one of these the other day. They are very difficult to find, many distributers don't have anything in 6mm ARC.

To the OP; If wind is an issue, then the 6mm bullet will be easier to hit with at longer ranges. But with a heavier bullet comes more recoil and it will be difficult to spot your own shots.

Do you mean a tube gun chassis?
While I've seen a few prone sling guys shoot them I've never been overly impressed with them. And I built one in .308win... 😉

yep some of us call them a rail rifle and i don`t really like these rail rifles either, for looks they are ugly but they are accurate . mine is a red Marine version by Ruger.

👌
I bought the Competition Machine single shot, shot it in a prone match with the standard serrated butt plate. My shoulder looked like some beat me up with a meat tenderizer. So I made a new butt plate and used a flip-flop for a recoil pad. I've thought about getting the repeater grip assembly and spinning up a barrel in a queer-more cartridge...
I'm not sure the ergonomic are compatible for shooting from a bench.

I have two of the Eliseo R1s (Competition Machine) for prone shooting and love them. One in .308 and the other in .284. For me, the low bore line really mitigates the recoil compared to the conventional stocks even with the standard butt plate. Went thru over 300 rounds of .308 in the 5 days of shooting at SWN with comfort. Wouldn't do it without a shooting coat though.

i put plates on my rail rifle for bench shooting and it has a brake on it to ,but its still ugly as heck .

And can be applied similarly to threads in/on outdoor forums.

About fifty years ago, I used to attend turkey shoots in our area. Many were fired at arbitrary distances and from a picnic table. I was a pretty good shot and had some good rifles, so I won my share. One time, I went to a shoot at a remote community. I figured I didn't want to be over equipped to shoot against a bunch of hillbillies, so I just took my 30/06 rifle, which shot pretty good but was far from my first choice. I pulled in and put down my money, and waited for my turn to shoot. The first shooter was called and this rangy, bearded guy, wearing his black Dickies and a flannel shirt under the red suspenders, walked up and sat down with a stainless barreled, glass-stocked, Shilen DGA, and put one about 1/4 from center. Looked good, but the next guy, with a similar rifle, beat it handily. I shot all day and had nothing to show for but a lighter wallet. From that day forward, I might bring a pretty common hunting rifle but I always had a 40X LV rifle in the trunk, just in case. Don't see shoots like this anymore, and it's kind of a shame. GD

We shoot a similar event at my club. We don’t have classes, the rules state .30 and smaller and no flat bottom stocks. Rests, scopes open to all. The most successful winner has been a stock savage 6br with a nightforce. We shoot 5 shots for score at 50 yards offhand, 100, 200, 300 yards. The match is won at 50 and 100, then lost at 2 and 3. The wind wreaks havoc the further you go out as the range is along a wooded property and we get a swirl. I’m not much for bench shooting, so I shoot prone off a Harris.

Side note. We also bet separately $1 per yard line, highest score wins the yard line and ties are settled by group size.