Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire The Siege of the Alamo?

The old joke about why SA only brought that many.....

He only had 3 station wagons.

ya!

GWB

He actually had five, but two got pulled over by CBP.

 
"Remember the Alamo! Remember Goliad!"

"When Sam Houston's revolutionary soldiers won the Battle of San Jacinto and secured independence for Texas, their battle cry was "Remember the Alamo! Remember Goliad!" Everyone knows about the Alamo, but far fewer know about the stirring events at Goliad."
https://www.tshaonline.org/publications/remember-goliad


Goliad massacre
"The Goliad massacre was an event of the Texas Revolution that occurred on March 27, 1836, following the Battle of Refugio and the Battle of Coleto; 425–445 prisoners of war from the Texian Army of the Republic of Texas were executed by the Mexican Army in the town of Goliad, Texas.The men surrendered under the belief they would be set free within a few weeks, however this was not to be. Despite appeals for clemency by General José de Urrea, the massacre was carried out by Lt. Colonel José Nicolás de la Portilla, under orders from General and President of Mexico, Antonio Lopez de Santa Anna."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goliad_massacre


Fannin Memorial Monument

   

Sam Houston was in a difficult position, many of the men in the Texian Army despised him and no Texian commander could simply issue orders. Properly speaking their men weren’t soldiers, didn’t feel bound to follow orders they didn’t agree with or follow leaders they didn’t like.

In the six weeks since the fall of the Alamo Sam Houston had gone from around three hundred men at Gonzales, to a high of around fifteen hundred men two weeks later, almost half of whom had left his command by the time of San Jacinto, leaving him with around eight hundred.

Houston himself had wanted to retreat clear to Nacodoches, where his mentor Andrew Jackson had American troops posted. The Texian Army refused to retreat any more, at the famous Witchaway Tree fork in the road, Houston wanted to go left to head north to Nacodoches, the army turned itself right to head south towards approximately 4,000 Mexican troops, 1,200 of which would be present at San Jacinto.

Even fewer remember Jose de Urrea, with the intelligence and guidance provided by the Goliad-area Tejanos under Carlos de la Garza, Urrea beat us every time he fought us.

His first two victories were against the British Subject James Grant who had left the Alamo in January with two hundred American volunteers to occupy Matamoras on the Rio Grande. Santa Anna and Urrea did not like each other, and news of Urrea’s killing of the notorious Scot Grant on March 2nd may well have prompted Santa Anna to take the Alamo when he did.

Urrea’s subsequent capture of the Texian army in the open country east of Goliad was brilliantly executed, as was his proposal to send that army home to New Orleans unharmed. This war was not universally supported across the US and an unprecedented humanitarian act like that on Santa Anna’s part could have raised his political capital in the US enormously.

Even Sam Houston thought we lost when Urrea won, said later that was the worst day of his life.

No one could predict that Santa Anna would be dumb enough to kick a war back to life that Urrea had very nearly won by overriding Urrea and shooting all the prisoners.

As Urrea predicted, this massacre made it life or death for the 30,000 American settlers in Texas who were previously divided on the subject of independence. Most of them had not even picked up a gun yet.

Santa Anna’s problem was his Vice President in Mexico City had just died and if he didn’t get back right away he wasn’t gonna stay President for very long. Just then his rival Urrea wins this tremendous victory putting Santa Anna in a fix. If he left now Urrea would get credit for Texas.

So he takes Urrea out of command, has all the captured men shot, and unleashes his army on East Texas which was about like kicking a hornets nest. Santa Anna himself jets down the coast with his fastest 800 guys looking for someone to fight before they could get away.

This set the stage for San Jacinto.

Another unsung hero, the guy who rebuilt it 1849/50.

The Alamo story wasn’t put together until the 1870’s, forty years after the battle. Everyone on our side died, most were from out of state, and Texas was being settled by immigrants. By the 1870’s enough residents had actually been born here that there was a push by the state to construct an Alamo narrative.

This is how the Alamo looked in 1844, the oldest known image.m, a daguerreotype.



The church never had a roof, the limestone was too soft. In 1849 no one appreciated the significance of the old mission and US Army guys on the scene wanted to tear it down and build a warehouse.

Fortunately for posterity the War Department wouldn’t fund that, telling them to put a roof on it instead. To do that they had to finish the walls. They hired a local architect to design and supervise.

This is how he finished the back wall, a simple rounded design.



If he woulda done that on the front too, that would have been a public relations catastrophe.

Instead he topped the ornate front wall with the faux mission-themed facade that we have today. Did such a great job that the whole world recognizes that profile.

Dammit, I forgot that guy’s name.

I was thinking, if all of us are responsible for slavery , why are we letting are these beeners in our country? Remember the Alamo !!!!

Birdy, you be at Massacre weekend with us at Goliad end of March? I haven’t looked at the current sign up list. Dud and I will be ther Thursday and try to set up under the anaqua tree in front of Scott’s office.

Was just there Friday. Flying back home today.

Hit the Riverwalk Thursday night.

Visiting the Alamo, and standing in the old church building brought the same feelings I get when at Mt. Rushmore.

Had a relaxing trip down here and look forward to returning for yet another visit some day.

Was -14 last Thursday when we left the Black Hills. So the weather has been a welcome relief from our SD winter.

Dad and I were there in 2007. It was definitely sobering to see. Birdy, I'm trying to remember - didn't they have a dirt ramp built to roof level so they could use cannons?

While on that trip Dad and I also visited Mission Espada - That was really eye opening as well.

Was there about 12 years ago. Enjoyed walking through it and would go back if I ever get the chance.

Worked with a guy, Elvis Jennings, at the plant back in the '80's who retired to Jewitt TX. Visited him a couple times when we were passing through there and one time I went in and he had his feet propped up on a table in his sunroom drinking a Pearl. Looked out the window and his wife was running a rototiller in the garden. I knew he had passed away years earlier but got to thinking about him the other day and looked him up on Find a Grave. Was astounded to find his great grandfather, Gordon Jennings died at the Alamo and his GG/Uncle Charles Jennings died at Goliad. Elvis never said one word to me about his kin folks.

Thanks for the reminder, I just signed up, Texian infantry but I might join the Tejano Tories in the battle if they need people.

Might bring my Mexican soldier stuff too if I’m able to make it on Sunday for the massacre. Always looks odd when the victims outnumber the perps 🙂

Whatever side I’m on, I’m gonna die valiantly at 11am and again at 2:30pm if my flint gets dull or I run out of blank cartridges, whichever comes first 🙂

The top third of the back wall was knocked down to accommodate three cannons. Most of the Alamo defenses had been put in place by the Mexican Army when they occupied and reinforced it in 1835.

IIRC a six to one ratio was customary for building ramps to accommodate artillery. The inside of the church was too short to accommodate a long ramp, so the top of the back wall was accordingly lowered.

Mexican General de Cos’s engineers knocked down what remained of the church’s collapsed roof and used that rubble as a basis for the ramp. I believe the consensus is that ramp also consisted of earth and a supporting wooden framework.

Great. Once again I will be Johann the Prussian merchant/cotton buyer caught up again in this conflict. Wish scott would finish my “Preussichen Reisecarte"!

This, purportedly, is what the entire compound looked like. The building people currently refer to as the Alamo was just the church building.

There should have been a section (640 acres) declared for the Alamo site and Texans should be totally ashamed that THEY did not reconcile this issue! Instead, the city of San Antonio has built concrete and plaster damn nigh onto the doorstep of what should have been declared as 'hallowed ground'! I feel fully justified in thinking that there was also in play over the years an ethnic portion of the San Antonio population that did all they could do to desecrate the memory of those Americans that died at The Siege of the Alamo!!

I was stunned when I saw the Alamo in the center of San Antonio. I was expecting to see it as you described with acreage and open space.

Sky scrapers on 3 sides, buries the Alamo in a pretty sanitized setting, far from what you would expect…

The terrain is somewhat different than it was back when. I can see where it’d be a shock.

Further proof of don't bet historical data will get the best of the Almighty dollar!