Home Forums Birds & Dogs Upland Game Your ideal pheasant-with-dogs shotgun ???

For those who regularly hunt pheasant over pointing dogs, what is your idea of the perfect shotgun? Perfect choke(s)? Perfect load?

Thanks, RS

16 gauge double gun ic and mod 6 shot

Ounce and and eighth

I usually hunt lands requiring non-toxic shot, and will grab my 3 in. 20ga. choked IC/M with a 7/8 oz. load of #4 steel in the first barrel, #2 in the second.

If I had to do that I'd have an o/u, probably a Citori, in 16 or 20, and skeet chokes. Shooting an ounce of lead 6's in either gauge.

There isn't any perfect of any of them.

Can't choose only one shotgun....and I'm following behind flushers. Even then most of my shots are inside 35 yards.

Ithaca 37..28 gauge pump. Mod.
Parker Repro 28 gauge. IC/Mod.
Parker Repro 20/16 two barrel set. IC/Mod or Quail 1 and Quail 2.
Model 12...16 gauge. Mod.
Model 12...20 Gauge. IC.

Lead or Bismuth 5's.

20 ga SXS Imp & Mod 1oz #6


90% of roosters go down with the first shot which is Imp.

I use what SLDUCK describes.

Browning Superposed 20 with 26" barrels choked Mod/Imp with 2 3/4" 1 oz load of #5's at 1200fps

Gosh, I feel like kind of a clod among all you small bore gentleman. 12ga for me, IC/MOD, usually in 30 inch barrels. Side by side, of course, so that should count for some style points. Give me an ounce and a quarter of 5's or 6's, or 4's in a pinch. Slow them down to 1220fps in a field load please. I have taken a few with my 1911 Fox with an ounce of 6's in 2 1/2 inch shells, so that works too. I haven't made a pheasant trip in a few years now, so maybe this year. My little lab is 16 moths now and looks like she'll pan out after all. I'll bet she'd learn a bunch in a week out west.

First week of season, 28 gauge o/u M/F, 30” bbls. I like 3/4 oz #6.

Or…

16 gauge Model 12 Winchester, 28” mod.

After first week, 16 gauge Model 12 Winchester Super Field with 28” barrel, full choke. 1 1/8 oz. #6

Or…

Browning Superposed “Pintail”, 12 gauge 28” barrels, Teague chokes - probably Mod/Imp Mod. 3 1/4 - 1 1/4 - #5 (1220 fps).

1967 vintage Remington 870, 12 gauge, 28” full choke barrel. Same loads as above.

OMG you gun changers

A Prandelli and Gasaprini 20 gauge SxS with whatever cheap ammo is available. The one on the bottom below.

1987 citori first year 16 gauge. 3 labs and a bunch of birds. 26 inch. Merkel 47e 16 single trigger 28 inch. Both ic and mod.

1 oz. 6's IC & IM same for all gauges (12, 16, 20) and barrel lengths, sxs or o/u but haven't shot an o/u in 15 yrs..

Bernardelli Elos 12ga 5 lb 15 oz B&P High Pheasant 2.5" 1 oz. 6's, Montana wild pheasants

Used to carry a 12 ga O/U, but last 2 years have switched to a stoeger 20 ga semi mostly because it’s lighter. Using #5 shot either way.

My favorite is my Dickinson Estate 16 ga SxS, IC/Mod, though they are a bit tighter than marked. Normal load is handloaded 1 1/8-5s that pattern pretty tight. We hunt behind Cheesy's big running German Shorthairs, but the hard pressed birds we get into don't often offer a close range shot. If it gets cold enough for heavier gloves I switch to Beretta M391 12 ga, mod, with 1 1/4 or 1 3/8-5s.

Something that handles 1 1/8 oz of 5 or 1 1/4 oz of 4 shot when I can use lead shot or 1 1/4 oz of steel 2 when non-toxics are required. I'll use lead 6 shot if I have to but I found long ago I had more cripples with them than larger shot. Cover is also a factor with the large tracts of cattails most often hunted giving greater advantage to cripples than grasslands and fields.

Shotguns used are typically a Citori Lightning or Upland Special in 16 ga when lead is allowed or a 12 ga Browning Gold or Beretta 390 if using steel. I have a number of other guns that get occasional use in the field but the previous ones are the most used.

Chokes are most often Modified when using lead or light Mod for steel. In spite of what is commonly believed shots over pointing dogs aren't always close. Especially, pheasants as they are notorious for running out from under points. IC and even Full have their place but seldom is Mod a poor choice.

This describes most of my wing shooting.

Franchi 48AL 20ga with a mod, shooting 1oz of #4's or 5's (depending on availability)
Browning Citori GTI 12ga with Mod over IC, shooting 1 1/8oz of #6

depends on time of year and terrain

I prefer a good lite auto like the Beretta upland or a lite O/U if Im hiking more open terrain and hills all day


I like an IC and IM earlier in year and a mod full late run year. golden pheasant 5's. 6 in bismuth in WPA's

A depends on who you ask question. I've hunted them with Mossberg pump 12ga, Browning double auto 12ga, Berenidelle SxS 12ga, Remington 870 special field 20ga, Aya 12ga, Aya 16 ga, Aya 28ga and maybe a couple other's. These days I pretty much shoot only my 28ga guns.

When hunting with my buddy's pointing lab, I use my Beretta 686 White Onyx 28ga. It has 28" barrels and I use Briley extended chokes.

Improved Cyl in bottom barrel and Light Mod in top.

IC= Instant Carnage
LM= Lotsa Meat

I really like the Fiocchi Golden Pheasant 28ga load in #5 or #6. Its a 7/8 oz at 1300fps that patterns really well.

Used to raise and train Britts (back in the day). Hunted nothing but pheasants. My constant companion was (gasp !!) a Winchester 1400 XTR 12 gauge with a 22" VR barrel and the IC Winchoke tube in. Shot 1 1/4 oz of #7 1/2 lead.

I carried that gun, leaving a 20 gauge Superposed Lightning, a 16 gauge Model 21 and a 12 gauge Model 21 sitting at home. The 1400 was just the PERFECT extension of my right index finger.

I rarely get the chance but if I did it would be my model 12 Featherweight 12 gauge modified. For whatever reason I shoot that gun better than any other shotgun I own.

For the past 4 years I've used a franchi affinity 3, 20ga. IC choke, and usually #5s. Have used 12ga OU with 5s or 6s but now prefer a 20.

My Merkel 1620 with the 16 gauge barrels up, choked VZ and 1/2. Favored load is Fiocchi Golden Pheasant, 1 1/8 oz nickel plated 5’s. Kills about any bird at any reasonable distance. If it’s nasty weather I’ll use my Ruger Red Label with whatever 1 1/4 oz loads
I’ve got in 4, 5, or 6 shot, 26 inch barrels choked whatever tubes have been in them the last ten years or so. People make too much of this choke/shot size stuff.

Franchi Falconet 26" barrels fixed mod over IC. #5 shot

Pheasants, partridge, rabbits, turkey, whatever...with dogs or not, i'm carrying the old Beretta AL-2 20ga.

I carry my SKB O/U 20 ga.( IC/Mod 26” barrels ) with 2 3/4” #6 Kent Fast Lead loads. It’s been a great combination for me but I’m hunting flushing birds over a Field Bred English Cocker. I hunted with an Ithaca (SKB) Model 500 12 ga. until about 9 years ago. I’ll never go back to a 12 with today’s shotshells.

It depends on the time of the season and what type of field I'd be walking. On fields with rows such as corn or Milo Sorghum the Pheasants will often get up further away. I find that late season pheasants get up further away also. On such instances I carry a 2 3/4 heavy load of #4 shot in a twelve gauge. My favorite 12 gauge has been a 1939 vintage Model 12 with a solid rib and full choke.

Early season pheasants and in fields such as CRP, I will use a lighter load. I'll still use that shotgun, though I think a modified choke might be better.

I also use a 3200 Remington over and under in 12 gauge, a 16 gauge Model 12 with a mod choke, a model 37 Winchester in 20 gauge with a full choke.

If I were to hunt on fields where pheasants were planted there by the landowner, the pheasants will likely get up fairly close - they don't often run like wild pheasants. I have somewhat limited experience with such hunting opportunities. As I will only hunt on such ground where I don't pay the bill. Rich Eastern hunters that come to such places will often pay so much a bird and $300 per day.

I prefer a pre 1947 Browning FN Auto 5 16 gauge with IC choke with 1 ounce of 5’s or 6’s in a 65mm shell.

That is a GREAT picture. Must of been a wonderful day. 👍

Thanks one of many great days with my Britts

For years over a close pointer, I used an AYA 28 with 28” barrels, choked IC/M. 3/4 oz, size 7 1/2.
Gun weight just under 6 lbs.

Presently, I have three I’d put in your category: a 6 1/4 lb Rizzini 20 with 28” barrels. Choked IC/IM. 1 oz 6’s.

A 6 lb Citori Superlight Feather 16 ga, 24” barrels with 1 1/8 oz 6’s, and a Benelli Ultalight 20, 5 3/4 lbs, 24” barrels, 1 oz 6’s

The difference? What I feel like that day.

This pic is with a Dickinson 16 ga. Which is a quality shotgun but at 6 3/4 lb is a little too heavy for ga. IMO. I like light shotguns.

Great pics!!!!

Doesn't look that half pound heavy Dickinson hindered your shooting...Well done George!!!!

I hunted pheasants last year for the first time and I got hooked! I carried an old 870 16 gauge with a fixed modified choke. I wanted to bring my 11-48 28 gauge but I was afraid it would be too light for December roosters. Since then I have accumulated a Citori 16 gauge, a Huglu 20 SxS with English stock, Stevens 555 in 16 gauge and a Savage Fox 12 gauge SxS with MOD and IC chokes. I got addicted bad!

No, it didn’t. I shot very well with it, but was always conscious of its weight. I think I got there from carrying 8.5 lb rifles in the elk mountains for three decades, eventually being able to distinguish 1/4 ,more or less by evaluating rifles and the other items I carried.

George,
Nice gun and dog!

I have hunted wild roosters quite a bit, but more often with a flushing rather than pointing dogs--though most of the flushers tended to work more carefully as they became more experienced--and older and hence slower!

Have used a bunch of shotguns in gauges from 28 to 12, usually pretty light for gauge--and like you tend to pick which one I feel like that day. My favorite 12 is a Sauer boxlock side-by-side made in 1940, which weighs 6-1/4 pounds even with it's 28" barrels, but have also had fine results with many others, including a Fausti 28 SxS which is a pound lighter, and recently an older "Birmingham" boxlock, an R. Lisle SxS 12 which weighs 6-1/2 pounds even with 30" barrels. It has become a favorite later in the season, due to being choked IC and Full, a not uncommon combo in British guns. But I recently picked up an older Browning Citori 20, and plan to use it it some this fall!

Have used a variety of shot sizes, but in the past few years it's often hard #7s--the British #6 popular for driven birds.

Hope we can get together again sometime, maybe even to hunt birds!

Best,
John

Shot a lot of pheasants when I lived in CO and hunted KS, MT, SD, NE too. My favorite is my AYA #2 RB 16 ga, 28" barrels choked IC and Mod with 1-1/8 oz of #6 shot. Twin triggers, carries very well, fits me well, etc.

But I've shot a bunch of them with a Beretta 686 20 ga, with a straight grip stock, 28" barrels and a Briley IC and Mod tubes in it. Usually use 1 oz of #6 shot.

These days if I went I'd at least take my Beretta A400 Xplor 28 ga, 28" barrel with a mod choke in it. I'd shoot my favorite 7/8 oz reload with #6 shot...a load proven many times on sharptails, chukars and Huns in BC. Also would take my Winchester M12 with a straight grip stock, 28" barrel choked at 0.015" constriction (full choke opened up to LM) shooting 1-1/8 oz of #6 shot. And my Beretta 391 20 ga 28" barrel with a Mod choke is a great gun as well. Lots of good choices as my house.

John, I would just love that. That little get together in Livingston was ten +/- years ago now. And I’ve been collecting after-market parts.

That time was a spring bear hunt and I strained and my tore my lateral ligament in my left knee and had to drain it. Took 80 cc’s off in our tent. But I’m back to walking form again.



Ironically, it’s the other one I had to have replaced.

Dang!

Have heard of needing the "opposite joint" replaced. It even happened to my mother, who apparently ruined her "good" hip by using it a lot more after her other hip went bad.

I'll let you know if we have a decent upland-bird population this year. The winter was one of the longest and snowiest we've had in years.

George,

And here I thought I was the only one to ever do that to myself. I didn't get it all so finally went to an ortho guy. He asked, "Just how did you do that?" I replied with betadine and a 60 cc syringe. He just smiled and went to work. However mine was an elbow.

Battue

😀. In 2018, I drained my bud’s bursitic elbow in our outfitters bathroom. Soap, and some alcohol was our disinfectant. The patient survived…of course, I’ve known mules and donkeys that were not as tough.

Never went on a trip without a couple of syringes, appropriate needles, some butadiene, marcaine and some steroid.

It’s enabled what would have been a couple of miserable hunts to become comfortable ones.

I forgot to add to the above, in the 16 Citori it’s M/F and in the 20 Ultrlight I just keep a M in it.

See I come from a lesser budget line. Been over a decade since I lost my 14 year old German Short Hair. Tough loss & chose not to replace him as my joints were getting the best of me.

I was pretty much a one shotgun for everything kind of guy. Simple 12 gauge BPS with 26 " barrel modified choke. 5 shot lead was my favorite. When the grounds called for steel, duces was the first choice.

For years, many years ago I hunted everything with a Rem 870 Wingmaster, 12 ga. with a M choke. It got it all done. As a nostalgic, I regret that gun sailing away.

Kurt, the AyA #2 is just very, very nice as is the A400, but in a different way — a work of art and a Smooth Operator. 😉

George, that A400 28 ga is so light to carry, yet isn't too whippy to shoot well. Works better than a 5-1/2# shotgun should. But the AYA #2 16 ga SxS has been the favorite for 20 seasons for pheasants.

George,

I ordered a 12-gauge 870 in 1979 from the local J.C. Penney store in Missoula, Montana--with two barrels, since at that time screw-in chokes were a rarity--and unknown in Remingtons. Both barrels had 3" chambers and ventilated ribs, one a 26" IC and the other a 30" full. Picked it up at the store around noon, and met a friend out on the street while carrying the box to my old Ford Bronco. It was mid-September and he suggested we go grouse hunting.

So we did, in one of the local creek drainages just outside of town which held ruffed grouse, and occasionally blues. Stopped at a likely spot, and my first Labrador Gillis started acting birdy. I hadn't even fired the gun yet, just attached the IC barrel and grabbed some shells.

When I sent Gillis into the brush he flushed a grouse--and I pointed the 870 at the only reasonably open spot in the cover. When the bird flew through the opening I shot. The bird dropped, and Gillis retrieved it.

Still have that 870, and have killed a bunch of birds with it from doves in Argentina to geese in Alberta, but the two fixed-choke barrels were replaced a while back with a 28" Remington barrel with screw-in chokes, and a 21" rifled slug barrel. It's taken a bunch more birds--but also some deer and my biggest black bear, and Eileen also used it on a young cow moose.

It ain't "classy" but it works! And I ain't selling it....

John

I'm very lucky to have a pointing lab with an excellent noise. A SKB 505 O/U 12GA, 26" barrels, IC & MOD Carlson Cremator tubes, my handloads with 1.25oz buffered bismuth #5 at about 1275fps. All the above has made for a very successful combination resulting in some very memorable hunting.

John,

I ordered mine and received it in ‘69 I believe. By that time I had read enough to reject “the full choke, 30” barrel” mantra for pheasants at the time common here in NW Iowa. It was probably spread by once-a-year hunters who didn’t shoot very well and thought more barrel and tighter chokes were needed. I ordered it with a 26” barrel with a M choke (fixed) — unheard of. But the local barber-gun dealer, himself an astute outdoorsman (and a patient one) said “sure, that will work fine.”

I still have fond memories of it and regret selling it even though I’ve seemed to have moved away from the 12 ga. for most purposes. Many birds, with many friends, on many occasions fell and made me seem a better shot than most likely I am. Fit, utility, balance and all that.

Mechanically, I’m a southern cousin to Red Green, but I actually stripped the trigger mechanism and bolt out while prone in a muddy cornfield field once while sneaking up on some mallards. By that time I carried a little punch and the pins were easy to push out. With the mud wiped out of the action, twenty yards more, and two big green heads were down.

I always was a trade-it-in guy for the next thing, and now there’s a modest list of those I’d like to hold again. Yet, in a way, you never lose them.

Edit: oh yeah, and that plunger safety was easily reversible for a lefty.

Winchester 101 12ga over my GSPs.

I’m pondering going with a group to hit ND/SD/IA this fall, for mainly pheasants but maybe some ducks. Can’t decide on which one or two guns to take from my ‘59 Sweet 16 (26”/Cyl…may go to Briley for tubes), my Gold 20ga with #4 bismuth, and/or a newer Auto 5 12ga (which is my lighter weight duck gun). Also have a Savage/Fox BSE 20ga, and some others. I might take a decently trained lab for its first pheasant work….otherwise it’s walking them up.

Any of them will work and by all means take your dog. Almost any dog is better than no dog. Almost, anyways.

Seriously, tho. I shoot a couple of pheasants every now and then. Some present shots that are less than ten yards, some are 20 yards and some are more than 30, every time I go out. You can't pick a choke combo that will "do it all" on any particular walk even, let alone any particular day. Pick a gun that you shoot well and go forth. Light modified is a good choice but I've shot alot of pheasants with cylinder in the bottom barrel of a Citori 16. A lot.

I covet your Bernardelli!

Have shot a pile of roosters with various guns pretty hard for me to fault a modified choked barrel. Carry both older vintage ammo with no shot protection and newer stuff with plastic wads that have shot cups. If their sitting tight use the old vintage for more open patterns if they are getting up out there use the newer ammo..one barrel gun gets old in the chamber and backed by the newer stuff. 2 barrel guns get old in the open choke and newer ammo in the tight choke.. it's a simple concept but works. I have many different shotguns and have shot enough that any of them will work never going to be a guy who allways uses just 1 gun. By choice my Belgian A-5 Sweet 16 vr mod choked gets carried alot. I like the way she feels and she is never the wrong answer for questions not yet asked..mb

Read it again.....he shoots more Pheasants in a couple years than most will shoot in a couple decades. Some in a lifetime.

One choke? Make it a full.
You can always let them fly a bit farther, hard to make them fly closer.
Luckily we have 100 year old guns with two chokes to choose from.

Don't over think shot size and choke. Over think this: Find a shotgun that you shoot well and is reliable.

For me its Brownings in general and Auto-5's in particular. YMMV.

Put good quality sixes in it and go forth. Winchester Super-x, Remington Express, Federal Hi-Brass. No need for large shot and high velocity, they aren't making tiny kevlar vests for the birds.

And most of you can't shoot well enough at the ranges where fours would make a difference. You'll kill more pheasants with the additional shot in sixes than you will at long range with fours. That's a fact.

They have changed over the years. My first favorite was a Quail Unlimited 28 gauge Beretta 686 with 3/4 and 7/8 ounce nickel 6s. I had both loaded and grabbed whatever was handy. Might give a slight edge to the 7/8 ounce. I used SK/IC chokes.

My 1938 16 gauge Ithaca 37S, 26” IC with one ounce 6s gets a fair bit of time afield now. I shoot it as well as any of my O/Us.

I have a Beretta Blackwing 20 gauge with choke tubes. It saw some ptarmigan and grouse work in Alaska. I need to get it out this next season. I’ll use SK/IC or IC/M and 7/8 ounce 6s

My current favorite is a Jackson, English boxlock 20 gauge. It’s choked CYL/IM. I think. I know the right barrel is cylinder bore and pretty sure I recall the seller saying it was IM on the left. It’s tight looking at a splatter plate. At 5 pounds 4 ounces it’s a carry all day gun. 7/8 ounce 6s. Nickel if I get time to load some.

The more fortunate one is to be around a lot of Pheasants, the less choke becomes important. In that it isn't necessary to shoot at everyone that gets up. Also agree, that few of us have the skill to consistently be stoning Roosters at 40 yards plus. Although many seem to think it isn't all that difficult. Also waiting and deliberately riding out a Rooster, to where a Mod plus choke is needed, is a skill that few have.Those that can, get a tip of the hat from me. When it comes to Roosters, I'm mostly move, mount, shoot . The eyes tell me if they are in my range. I like to see red heads and white necks to let me know. 35 yards and in is about perfect. Hanging on is almost a guarantee for a miss.

“Ideal” in your scenario is going to be a pretty subjective. Dogs vary highly as to type, ability, and training. Then there’s the cover — death march CRP, chest high, with a bird flushing up your nose, or a clean cornfield inclining birds to sprint a 100 yds or further and get up a quarter mile away.

As BK, and Battue mentioned, don’t dither over chokes because ranges will vary from bird to bird and shot to shot. IC, LM, HM, and F will all work. I also don’t see any use in loading different shot sizes in doubles or pumps or SA’s assuming a first closer shot than the second. I’ve never been clever-fast at the correct barrel selector-safety choice on doubles to account for different range birds and the bigger or smaller shot. I load the same shot shells in both barrels or magazine.

So, no ideal choke. Most will pick size 4,5, or 6 shot for big roosters. I usually go with 5’s but probably mostly 6’s.

As to shotguns, I’ve used the 28, 20, 16’s and 12’s. I’ve killed a few with a H&R single shot 410 to see if I could. By far a M choke was the most often used. Now, the biggest factor for me is the shotgun. Notably weight. Handling qualities, reliability and quality all follow. I have no use for a pheasant shotgun weighing much over 7lbs. 7 would be max for a 12 for me if it was superlative in all other areas. Make that 6 1/2 lbs for a 16; 6lbs max for a 20 and under that for a 28. 26-28” barrels are more the norm although I’ve used 24” barrels with no problems.

Weight often becomes the issue when smaller gauges are built on the same frames used for larger gauges which is a common economic maneuver for all makers of all action types. Until you get into higher dollar guns. Many folks don’t seem to care as much about this as I do now.

When I was a junior (1969) in college, we had a particular snowy year in Iowa. My buddy and and his two GSH’s cut too many classes that fall and our Government Acres (called CRP now) were loaded with birds. I alternated between a clunky Savage 311 20 (M/F) and a Rem 870 12 gauge (M). With legal daily limits and possession limits, I killed about 90 wild birds that year and my bud killed just over a hundred. I even wrote my biology term later on the plant and animal content of their stomach contents. Of course, understandably, this required a lot of field work..

Both those guns worked fine though Im a bit more choosy now. Anyway, that’s the present view from here.

Amen. how many on here hunt pressured wild pheasants on public lands?


Ive pretty much use a Beretta or rem 11 87 semi auto full choke for 90 per cent of public land pheasant hunts . I have ou's., sxs's , pumps .love the older sxs's



I do it for my dogs

Since we have pretty much covered the variables of guns and chokes....At what range do you lose confidence in your ability to hit a Pheasant hard enough for consistent kills, with a good gun point?

Not what you have done once, twice or rarely. Where will you say, "I best hold off."

OK that's a good question. I'll have to think on it some but its a good question. Lots of variables

Most definitely there are variables...The biggest one most likely would be....How much of the vitals are being exposed. A going away Bird is harder to kill at 30 than one flying head on.

The question then becomes....On day in day out opportunities where is one running out of ability. Which also will give an idea of which choke may be optimal.

However, to give some idea of where I'm coming from. I've watched literally thousands of shooters shoot at 40 yard clays....and at all angles. For the average shooter their hit percentage would be 30 percent at best. And clays are easier to kill than Pheasants. And this would be on opportunities you are ready for...."Pull".

A World Champion Sporting clay shooter who makes a living teaching, told me this....."Most hunters are not as good of a shot as they think they are. And they have proven it to me over and over."

Another vote for the Sweet Sixteen. Made in '57, like me.

You have to love the little Bob White....Nice pic!!!!

40 yards is about my limit on fleeing, unwounded birds. A hit bird is a different story if I still have a round left. With three shooters, if I’ve exhausted two rounds unsuccessfully, it’s rare that I ever fire the third. Exceptions would be wounded birds, a covey of quail or huns, if they haven’t exceeded the 40 yard limit and incoming ducks and geese within 40 yards. On pheasants I try hard to keep myself in check on the 40 yard limit.

I call it clinical judgement. In face-to-face medicine, care givers with hundreds or thousands of patient encounters or cases, develop the “eyeball test”. That is, in a scant second upon walking in the patient’s room, and having read the patient’s chart beforehand, they “size up” or develop a medical judgements of the patient as to the challenges present. Certainly true in surgery and anesthesia.

But the analogy transfers to the field easily…with a lot of upland experience. Outside of outrageously out of range birds, with experience, there comes an immediate discernment of birds flushing “on the edge” of doable range. There is an immediate no-go or go judgement.

Getting pinned to the mat, for me I would say I would not knowingly shoot at an over forty yard bird. Ideally 25-40 yards would be good. It’s not necessarily based on a lack of confidence in hitting the bird, but that of quickly killing it.

Related, is the situation now of buying these “magnum upland loads” to extend your range. I’m against them. For instance, in 12 ga, they are of the 1 3/8 oz at ~1400 fps type fodder that will cause you to flinch eventually, are hard on the gun, unnecessary, and may actually wound more birds than kill them soundly. Don’t use them in any inertia SA or double gun for awhile or you will start to question the issue of proportions.

Edit: IMO of course, 😉.

Agree completely…..
And in the same thought, there are those that can use a case full of 4’s—- I’m not one——who can pound a Pheasant at 40 plus, and do it consistently.

They would rarely be your average or even above average hunter. They would be individuals who shoot much more than the average hunter. In campfire language they would be the players and not the fans. Those who have paid their dues in shells shot, while being a serious student of the shotgun.

The old myth of they can’t hit clays worth a damn, but are deadly on Birds…would be the rare exception. Very rare….

Sounds good to say…”Dad rarely missed with his old Model 12..” Fact is he didn’t shoot enough to “rarely” miss.

I wish I had a dollar for every time I’ve heard that. And every time I’ve bird hunted with someone who said that they were no better on birds than they were on clay targets.

In my instance, hunting over my long since departed Britt, where I held off was from point-blank to around 25 yards. Hence my setup of IC and #7 1/2 shot. I'm no phenom wingshooter. Probably somewhere in the vicinity of "meh" or "average" or "so-so". But I can HONESTLY say that I cannot remember ever missing a rooster over a point. But when my shots are at 25 yards..........not much of a bragging right. If a bird flushed wild........ I didn't shoot. If the dog bumped........ I didn't shoot.

WAAAAAAY back in the day, I did do some hunting over an American cocker we had at home. Whole different story. Hunt with tennis shoes on and bust ass toward a wagging tail. Missed plenty back then. I probably would have held off on anything past a 40 yarder back then.

Have shot a lot of Pheasants and Ruffed Grouse over English Cockers and Springers under 25.

Have also missed more than a few over Pointers. Some close…. And some out there. Every Bird a good Dig points is not always close. .

I like the clinical judgment answer. Sometimes I base the decision on where my dog is at in relation to the bird and cover, e.g. "retrievability." I shoot alot of birds between 15-25 yards, the more that I think about it.

Most of the Wild Birds I and friends have shot in SD are in the 25 and under range. Some even over Pointers.

All of which goes against some of the often expressed wisdom one hears repeated about SD Pheasant hunting.

However, we are not hunting the traditional group cornfield march one many think is “the way”. It is more of a one or two person small cover type hunt.

A lot of truth to this. And, I'm sure, a whole lot more with wild birds. But the vast majority of PA stocked ditch chickens in the 1990's were not particularly squirrely for a pointing dog. You'd get the occasional runner. Hold..........run.........hold..........run......... But a good dog figures those out pretty quick and will squat them down and a close flush will follow.


Having never hunted truly wild birds in traditional areas, this DOES come as a surprise to me. I guess I can't believe everything I read anymore.

In three years may have shot maybe four that were over 30, using English Cockers.

Friend has an English Setter that has produced a bunch that got up under 30. And some within steps.

Some obviously get up wild, but enough don't. Find some in the thick covers there is a good chance some will get up close. Cattails being one example. Find them in a small out of the wind cover and again your chances increase.

Exactly. We hunt alot of big grass with dry or frozen sloughs. Crops are often out by the time we are hunting in earnest.

On a typical Sunday afternoon trip, I and my party will flush 500 birds. 200 will be roosters, 150 of them will flush wild, and we can only kill three a piece. Focus on those three (or 15 or 18), not the other 497 (or 485/482).

I couldn't even freakin' imagine...................... !!!!!!

It’s world class for our times. Perhaps competitive with any other time.

That is great news, indeed !!!

I hunted quail with an A-500 12 gauge with 1 1/4 #9’s, improved cylinder choke.

I miss the days of available hunting territory and abundant birds. My brother and I and our cow dogs used to be able to put up 100 plus birds on any day we went out, once we got the trespassers to stay off of the property. We were usually out 4 days a week minimum during season.

I only wish I could have had this Weatherby Orion O/U 20 ga in those days. As to chokes, we did not have the option of replaceable choke tubes. So we carried full choke guns as they were mandatory late in season when the birds became wary. Early in the season, we often waited for a bird to gain some distance before taking a shot.

Today, I would put an IC and a M in the gun for early season. Then switch out to an IM and full for late season. If we still had any birds to shoot.

I never saw a pheasant which would not die as easily in front of a 20 ga as a 12. I came to prefer #5 shot for pheasant. 6 or 7.5 produced a tighter pattern. But #5 produced fewer wounded birds flying away. They did not run away. If they hit the ground, the dogs WOULD stop them.

LOL, the dogs absolutely did not retrieve. The big heeler pointed better than any GSH I ever saw in the field, and they both would flush any birds out of the cattails and brush. They would run to ground and kill every bird that hit the ground, no matter the cover.

But, then they would stand and wag their tails with that look on their faces. "You have two good legs. Walk your nappy ass over here and pick it up".

We did not care, as long as they got the birds up and caught the runners.

Yes, I do miss those days a lot.

So, in summation, my dream pheasant gun is a nice 20 ga O/U.

I mostly carry my Benelli Legacy 28ga. when hunting over my pointing Lab, using mostly Fiocchi Golden Pheasant 7/8 oz. loads of either #6 or #7.5 shot, and IC choke.

My dogs are goldens. Good hunters great pals, but they are not pointing dogs. So my shots tend to be much longer than the guys with pointers. Most of my roosters have been taken with an old 870 with a modified tube. My favorite load is 3 1/14-
1 1/4 of 5s. I have 20s and a 28, but the 12 is the gun I pick up most of the time.

Wch we think the same. The older 870's a vr 28" modified choke, only I like the 3 3/4 ×1 1/4 oz of 5's. Well my dogs are usually black lol..mb

Beretta Lightweight 12 gauge 2 3/4 chamber screw in chokes. Now called the Ultraleggero. 6.5 pounds.

A straight away shot @ 35yd when I'm expecting it and my gun is partially mounted is my limit. Anything less ideal than this and I'll pass i.e. wild flush, etc. I think the issue with clays is that the clay is decelerating contrasted with an accelerating rooster. One needs an ever increasing lead with the feathered one.

You are overthinking it…..

Wild flushes bring out the subconscious instinctive reactions. Which are the most deadly.

While the premise that a clay bird is decelerating and a game bird is accelerating is true, it’s still going faster than an accelerating pheasant within the yardages most game birds are shot.

Agree… and they can send a clay fast enough to make a Pheasant look to be in slow motion.
Essentially a none issue for the most part.

Would agree and to minimize cripples a 1 1/4 of 5's plus a good retriever which further minimizes loss. Just depends on how you are hunting.mb

Agree, a good retriever is an amazing addition to our shooting skills…..before and after we hit the trigger.

Perhaps I just don't know any better, but my Rizzini Br110 Light in 20 gauge has been nothing short of a dream for pheasant and doves for me.

Love a 20. Grew up on a pump. Skeet choke for everything. If your dogs are worth a darn it's hard for me to see the need for anything larger. No flushing here, points only. We regularly use .410s with improved cyl. and mod chokes. 2 1/2" number 7 1/2s. Even pheasants and chickens. Put the autos and o/us down for good except my great grandpa's 1950s A5. Only malfunction with a good 870 or model 12 is you. Never had an auto that I could trust.
To add, using a .410 in the uplands pretty much does away with dropped legs and or cripples. You either kill them or miss them. People over think it and call it an experts gun for Quail, but we shoot them just as we would with our 20s. It's all in your dog. Most shots are within 20 yards. Slow down and kill the bird.