Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Elk Hunting 45-70 bullet for elk

I load for my son’s 45-70. It is a Henry lever action so it can handle a bit of pressure. I load the Hornady Interlock 300gr HP and they have been great on deer. He is planning an elk hunt with it. Is the Hornady bullet suitable for elk? I have taken quite a few elk with various rifles, muzzleloader and a bow but never a 45-70. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

I used 400 grain cast flat nose bullets.

They were excellent. Fast kills, full penetration's 100% of the time and excellent accuracy.

Do some research on the Hornady 350 FP.

I use the 405 gr, Remington soft point. It has been a standard for decades.

I like 350s for jacketed bullets in the 45/70. The Swift Aframe is an excellent bullet but they are expensive. If you don’t mind the price they’re probably unbeatable performance wise.

I have a friend who uses nothing but the 350 Hornady RN and loves it. He’s killed a pile of caribou and a 69” bull moose with them loaded to about 1850fps.

My favorite is the Speer 350 MagTip. I’ve had great luck both accuracy and performance on game wise with them driven to about 2050fps. The problem is they’re too long for an unmodified Marlin 1895. I shoot a USRAC 1886 and they fit and feed fine. I have no idea what length the Henry will tolerate.

If you have a good load for 300 grain bullets you might try to locate a box of the Speer 300s. They are a bonded bullet and hold together much better that the Hornady, Remington, and Sierra 300gr HPs. I have no idea if they’re still in production or not.

Personally I’d rather any of the 350s I listed over the standard 400gr jacketed bullets from Speer and Remington. They both are made for Trapdoor speeds and will expand widely when driven to more modern velocities. IME they penetrate less and you give up trajectory for no gain.

Same here.. I never had a problem with 405's penetrating and killing elk.

The 350 Hornady rn is capable of all the speed a 45-70 can drive one. A flat nose cast is at least as good maybe better killer but your rifle would have to feed the one you choose. 425 fn rcbs is very popular.

430 grain, wide metplat, cast @ 1800 mv. I haven’t taken an elk with ig yet….but, I think it would work just fine! memtb

Have never killed an elk with these, but have used them on other animals of various sizes from Montana to Texas at traditional .45-70 velocities. All dropped quickly--and have never recovered any of the bullets.

We use the horn 350 RN or flat point in the JM 1895 on elk, deer, bear. With imr 4198 and fed 210 caps, the chrono averaged 1987 fps.

The ONLY animal ever to stop one of the large hornadys' was the biggest mule deer buck I have ever killed. Hit the deer in the neck facing me, the bullet stopped just in front of the shoulders. Jacket and core I found separated, but this was a big deer. 215 lbs in just the hanging carcass. Multip!e deer have fallen after that buck to the same load and bullet but no more bullets recovered.

There was a blonde, long haired early spring black bear the first year I had the big lever gun. The 200 lb bear took a 350 gr. RN to the forehead and it exited just in front of the right hind quarter. No tracking needed or blood trail.

In the same fall a blonde bear fell to the marlin and the hornady, that elk season the wife and I had cut fresh tracks of a small band of elk in some timber I was familiar with. There direction indicated they were heading for a long opening they used for feed and bedding. We caught up to them in the opening and the wife dropped a fat old cow where it stood with a 60-ish yard shot. The big hornady made a big hole in and bigger out on the perfect heart/lung shot. Biggest bone struck was couple ribs.

Good bullets, have nothing but good to say about them. I would recommend them for general 45-70 lever gun useage, or any general 45-70 use.

The gummy bear tipped ftx may help your BC?

But never shot an elk with one.

They done fine with deer.

The 405 to me would be the final answer.

I shot the 400 grain Speer for the most part. I couldn't get hunting accuracy out of the Hornady 350 in my Marlin .45-70s yet all 4 were sub MOA (scoped of course) with the Speer 400 and 3 of the 4 were sub MOA with the Remington 405 grain factory load.

Mention of the 350 grain Speer makes gave me pause to ponder .. I wonder about loading those in the shorter brass Hornady uses with the FTX factory load would keep them short enough to feed through the Marlin. "Hmmmm ..." I wonder if the seating/crimping die could be set short enough to crimp with that shorter brass. Don't have a .45-70 at the moment ...

How does the Henry shoot/group?

These worked well for me from a B78. 510 grain @ 1650 fps.

At first I was thinking it was not worth the money. It was pretty erratic and generally gave two groups 3 to 4 inches apart. I swapped scope mounts and it was the same. I then took the scope off to sight in with the factory open sights. The 50 yard groups improved dramatically. I then put on a known good scope and miraculously the groups were 1.5" at 100yds. This was all with Hornady factory Lever Revolution ammo. I was able to improve the groups to down to just over an inch at 100 yds. I have shot it out to 150 yards and it holds at just over MOA. Being that this is a 200 yard gun (IMO) it is a good shooter.

I’ve used the Barnes 250 TSX, which has a huge hollow point. It blows thru hogs and WT’s, even blows lung tissue out the other side. Ray Charles/Stevie Wonder type blood trails, but those ventilated critters don’t go far.

Barnes data for Marlin level loads are around 2,550 fps. I’ve used Vv 110 but a number of similar burn rate powders will work.

CEB and Hammer both make good bullets, just haven’t tried those.

DF

That’s good to hear. A 1.5-2 inch 45-70 should be adequate 😃

I too like the Speer 350 JFN for the .45-70 and while they're not a problem for my Ruger #1SC, they were too long for my 1895 Guide Gun.

So, I had a friend gift me a couple or three boxes of Hornady once fired brass from the FTX bullets and as I had the same notion to use the shorter brass with these longer bullets.

I WAS able to make them work but had to adjust my Lee factory crimp die all the way to do so.

As these bullets were designed for the .458 WM and as such have a much thicker jacket, they are designed to expand to about .60" or so and penetrate like crazy.....which is why I wanted use them for big bear medicine while roaming the mountains in western Wyoming.

Frog---OUT!

Here's how they turned out.....

Seeing the photo, brought a thought to mind…….very dangerous, I know!

A wide metplat jacketed bullet, with jacket thickness as you described. Giving two potential benefits…..awesome bullet if/when it expands, or giving similar performance as that of a wide metplat cast bullet if it fails to expand. Kinda…..the best of both worlds! 🤔

I’m certain that someone has already produced that…..I can’t be the first to have this revelation! 😂 memtb

I use the 405gr Remington hand loaded to 1800fps from my 18.5" guide gun. I've killed exactly one bull elk with it and it went into freezer without fuss. Bullet expanded to 0.9" and traveled 30".

I wish there was a reasonably priced replacement.

I don’t have as much experience with shooting large animals as many here. I usually use cast with a wide meplate. It has always worked.
Frankly I’d think just about any 458 bullet from the 45-70 would work well.

I load the Hornady 350 RN in my Siamese mauser custom @ 2110 fps. Bang, Flop. I love it.

I found Nirvana with a 436 grain bullet and 47 grains H322, 1679 fps in my Guide Gun. Bullet in question was a Beartooth Bullets Piledriver Jr, since gone out of production but Montana Bullet Works makes a 420 grain that looks just as good. That weight bullet at moderate speed is a tremendous recipe for penetration.


I'm going to get some and try them out, my PD Jrs are just about shot out.

I have used the 400 grain Speer flat-nose for at least 25 years in my Guide Gun. It gives great accuracy over a stiff load of Varget. I never shot anything but deer with it, quite a few deer. Years ago, they seemed pretty soft, but something Speer said about them at some point led me to believe they’ve been toughened up. My own experience would seem to confirm that. I have quite a few 405 Remington bullets also. I’ve had great accuracy with them, as well, but never killed anything with them that I can recall. I’m not a big fan of the shorter, lighter bullets in .45-70, although I realize many are.

No elk experience. The 350 Hornady Round Nose being pushed by a stiff charge of 3031, has been remarkably accurate for me in 3 different Marlin 45-70's. 3 shot groups at 100 were always under an inch and often crowded 1/2 inch. It killed deer, and there's no reason to believe that it won't kill elk.

I've had great results on target with those round nose 350 gr Hornady bullets & IMR 3031. Hoping to try one on spring bear soon... Elk? Why not?

Guy

45-70 is one of the few cartridges I've used and loaded for with any real frequency. I've used the 405 Remington and old speer bullets on elk and Bison. Also used cast plenty and honestly anything 350--400+gr cast will smash an elk pretty handily.

Any bullet 330--350gr cast or jacketed would be fine and recoil isn't brutal.

The minimum acceptable accuracy of the .45-70 from the 1873 Springfield was approximately 4 inches (100 mm) at 100 yards (91 m), however, the heavy, slow-moving bullet had a "rainbow" trajectory, the bullet dropping multiple yards (meters) at ranges greater than a few hundred yards (meters). A skilled shooter, firing at a known range, could consistently hit targets that were 6 × 6 feet (1.8 m) at 600 yards (550 m)—the Army standard target. It was a skill valuable mainly in mass or volley fire, since accurate aimed fire on a man-sized target was effective only to about 200–300 yards (180–270 m).

After the Sandy Hook tests of 1879, a new variation of the .45-70 cartridge was produced: the .45-70-500, which fired a heavier, 500 grain, (32.57 g) bullet. The heavier bullet produced significantly superior ballistics and could reach ranges of 3,350 yards (3,120 m), which were beyond the maximum range of the .45-70-405. While the effective range of the .45-70 on individual targets was limited to about 1,000 yards (915 m) with either load, the heavier bullet produced lethal injuries at 3,500 yards (3,200 m). At those ranges, the bullets struck point-first at a roughly 30-degree angle, penetrating three 1-inch (2.5 cm) thick oak boards, and then traveled to a depth of eight inches (20 cm) into the sand of the beach. It was hoped the longer range of the .45-70-500 would allow effective volley fire at ranges beyond those normally expected of infantry fire.[5]

Hornady 350gr JRN (#4502) and 350gr JFP (#4503) both shoot 1 MOA or just under in my Ruder-made 1895. Barnes 300gr TSX-FN (#30630) is in the same neighborhood accuracy wise as the Hornadys, but they seem to run a bit narrow at .457. My first time seating them was comical, no neck tension at all. Bought a Lyman M die and that problem went away. I would trust all 3 on elk. I imagine any of the 350gr or heavier hardcast loads would clearly work too.

It doesn't need to expand much. It's bigger unfired than most elk bullets after they've mushroomed.

Interesting post,as I had some questions also on using the 45-70 for close range elk/bear gun. Recently tested some Barnes 300 gr hollow points out of my Siamese Mauser. Wanted to dig one of these fired slugs out of some wood, so shot through 4" of solid oak, backed buy a 6" round of white fir, at a distance of 50 yds. Bullet travvelled through both pieces of wood, and then slammed against a rock behind. Recovered the slug a few feet in front of the targets, was kinda suprised. Bullet still weighs 295 gr, is about 1-1/4" . These were loaded to about ,( guessing) 2300 fps.
Probably not a good elk/bear combo, but would use them for deer.

You might want to also look at the Big Bore Levers forum further down the list of forums. It comes up pretty regularly.

No truer word. I know it slaps moose and deer well. Have to assume it will do the same with elk.

That Rem 405 round was used by Shiloh Sharps to test their rifles according to Kirk Bryant. It will certainly ruin any elk’s day. I once shot at a 6-7” dia Pitch Pine with 550 gr 20-1 lead bullets over 2f black powder. Shot about five to six shots. I was at a distance of about 40 yards or less but the damage to that pine was something. The bullets went on through but tore away lots of wood. For those who don’t know Southern Pitch pine it is a tough species. Went to bed tree still standing but once the wind picked up it a bit it toppled. Big lead bullets in those old BP cartridges don’t move fast but they are destructive

Rick

If it fits snugly in a .45 cal barrel, it should work well on elk with proper placement. I tend toward the 400+ grain size.

Yep. I have knocked over a few cows with that round when I had a Marlin in 45-70

No elk with my 45/70 yet but it kills the hell out of deer with the tried and true 405 grain Remington.

And the 250 TTSX at 2,550 fps is a killer. That’s a Marlin level load, not Ruger #1.

I’ve not checked out newer mono’s like Lehigh, Cutting Edge and Hammer. Some of those look interesting, more expansive than Barnes. But not cheap.

DF

I wished the same thing so I bought some 400g Speers to try. Then I got back into casting and haven't tried the Speers yet. I've been casting and powder coating a 410g cup point that I how works well at about 1600 fps from my guide gun. My old load of Hornady 350g flat noses at nearly 2100 fps over benchmark is just no fun to shoot. My barrel isn't ported.

Bb

I wished the same thing so I bought some 400g Speers to try. Then I got back into casting and haven't tried the Speers yet. I've been casting and powder coating a 410g cup point that I how works well at about 1600 fps from my guide gun. My old load of Hornady 350g flat noses at nearly 2100 fps over benchmark is just no fun to shoot. My barrel isn't ported.

Bb

Joe, how soft is that alloy?

Bb

5-6 BHN. Might want to add a touch of tin if you seek total penetration although, I never had one take more than a half dozen steps after being introduced to it.

I've shot a couple elk with the 400 grain Speer on a max load of RE 7. Never took a step. And never found either bullet. The first went end to end on a cow facing me at 210 yards.

Jusk shot my 6th bull with the old 45-70. ( also have shot 4 cow elk and 2 cow moose with the old girl) i have had great success using the 350 hornady RN and FP but switched to a 405 hard cast 3 years back and it has performed equally as well. I like calling them in close and prefer a high shoulder shot for fast anchoring. This year my bull came into my calling to 40 yds and hung up behind some dead fall. I couldnt see the shoulder but could slip a round into his heart. He turned and got 20 yds away and was looking quite ill so i pounded one more through his neck and dropped him right there. I used to have a 1895 with 22in barrel and ran the 350s @2200fps. It absolutely smashed elk. I have since switched to a 16.5 in marlin dark and currently push the 405s @1640fps. 3 elk and 1 moose since 2020 have fallen to this load all within 100 yds. I absolutely love the effect a high shoulder shot has on these big critters as they dont get far from the first shot. You can also eat right up to the hole which is a big bonus. My main reason for switching to HC is availability and price. In my neck of the woods if you can find the hornadys they will run around $65/50 wheras a local castor sells his hard casts for $68/200. And no availability issues.

Or just visit Garrett:

http://www.garrettcartridges.com/4570420tech.html

And solve the problem, save they are not cheap.

RAS

20yrs ago I used the 405gr JSP Remington out of my guide gun at 1800fps. I shot exactly one bull Elk at 15 paces. Frontal shot. Penetrated 30", broke his spine and stopped in his grass bag. Bullet expanded to .9".

Well the Rem JSP has been out of production for some time, so I'm glad to hear that hardcast worked as good as the 350gr Hornady. Btw, were you using LBT-style WFN?

Yes, it is suitable, depending on distance.

The 300 grain Hornady HP will work under the right conditions, broadside non angled shots, but there are so many better choices.

Ive used the 45-70-a lot-on elk in timber on my property and adjacent National Forest. Ive used 500 grain pure lead paperpatch at around 1250 fps, 405 Remington soft points at 1500 fps, 430 grain hardcast at 1600 fps, 420 grain soft cast at 20-1, and the Hornady 350 gr FN at 2000 fps. Everything Ive used worked very well at ranges to 163 yds, with only one bullet recovered, pictured below.

This bullet, a 350 grn Hornady FN, struck a small bull (maybe 400 lbs live weight?) behind the left shoulder at a steep downward angle at 163 yds. Impact velocity was +- 1480 fps. The bullet took a rib going in, both lungs, and shattered the humerous below the offside shoulder. The bullet was found in the bone fragments beneath the hide at that location. The recovered bullet measured .719" and weighed 313.9 grns, just under 90%. Rifle used was an early Marlin 1895. My belief is that my 430 grn hardcast would have broken those bones and exited.

I will be using a Trapdoor Springfield (from 1886) in 45-70 on elk in a couple weeks, shooting a cast pure lead 457121 475 grn bullet with 66 grns of 3FG.

Regards,
Manny

Very nice. I need to break out my 1884 Trapdoor sometime. The only equivalent I've used is my Sharp 74 and Rolling Block

I have a friend who uses nothing but the 350 Hornady RN and loves it. He’s killed a pile of caribou and a 69” bull moose with them loaded to about 1850fp

I have a friend just like this...nothing but the 350 RN....Mule Deer, Elk, Bear protection.