Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Canada Ivi Imperial centerfire rifle ammo

A guy I used to work with called me this morning and said he had 3 boxes of 7x57 to sell was I interested? 2 boxes were Imperial factory 160.gr kksp bullets they.look like round nose to me. So what is a kksp? Thanks in advance

Mb

Magnum Bob;
Good afternoon to you sir, I hope the day behaved for you and you're well as can be.

The Imperial and before that Dominion bullets marked KKSP were Kling Kor Soft Point. They were often but I don't believe always round nosed bullets.

The "Kling Kor" was accomplished by the jacket being physically crimped into the lead core below the cannelure. This crimp would be in 4 places usually I want to say and would pierce the jacket so it bent into the lead core.

I thought I had some in my collection somewhere and if I can lay hands on one I'll take a photo and post it.

If they're Imperial then they're newer than the Dominion stuff.

We used lots of both Dominion and Imperial brass and it was okay, certainly not Lapua or Norma, but it worked.

Hope that made sense and was useful.

Dwayne

Kling Kor soft point. Bullets have some divots punched into the jacket to secure the core. They are actually not a bad bullet within their velocity range. Impact velocities of 2000 fps or less are probably best. I always felt IVI ammo was a come down from the older CIL Dominion brand but there probably isn't much difference. My first big game was killed with a CIL bullet ( handloaded) and my first elk was killed with a 303 factory load and a sabre tip bullet. GD

Dwayne thank you. Understand I usually load all my centerfire ammo. He wanted $20 for all 3 boxes so I gave him the 20. 1 box was federal and was mixed with some 150 gr ww power pts and 175 gr federal rn.. Just 10 minutes later I run into a couple of buds one who is looking for some factory 7x57 ammo. I started laughing about sheer coincidence and told him to meet me at my truck out in the parking lot. 7x57 ammo down here if you find any is a 45-50/ box deal. I explain my fortuitous deal and he said make me a deal on the 150 gr ww ammo. I just laughed and he said 10? no not that much make it 6. Now I have $ 14 in 50 rds. Still laughing. Mb

That KKSP was pretty darn dependable in the 300 Savage. Those old Sabre tips worked ok as well

Have some if you can’t get pictures Dwayne

Lorne what is the going rate on a box of 300 sav up there right now if you can find any ? Mb

Lorne;
Good evening to you sir, I hope that life is going more or less according to plan out east and you're all well.

If you can provide a photo that'd be grand, as at present the whereabouts of the sample of the KKSP remains a mystery at our place.

It's one of those times where I can see the thing in my mind and I "know" where I see it in my mind, but of course in reality, it's absent.

Of course it'll turn up a year from now and I won't remember this, but will remember that I wanted it for something or other.....

All the best to you all.

Dwayne

Magnum Bob;
Good evening once more, thanks for the reply and further story.

Of course I do love a good story and that one is a fine twist of events.

Since we're talking about Imperial and/or Dominion stuff and then you brought up .300 Savage....

1960's as best as I can figure - Full box too.



1950's or a tad earlier? Full box once more.



The "stuff" one collects in a lifetime of fooling with firearms, you know?

All the best.

Dwayne

Lol Dwayne you and I as well a few others here are part of the maligned " gun culture". Do you shoot much of the Imperial? Ammo or is it all collector stuff now?mb

Magnum Bob;
Thanks for the reply again.

If memory serves it was '84 that IVI - Imperial quit manufacturing center fire ammo.

Unless I was picking up brass or getting something barreled by a particular gunsmith who liked to fire 3 factory rounds through each job he did, I can't recall the last time I bought any factory ammo.

If I'm not wrong it was 6.5x55 Hornady just for that purpose when my walking around .270 became that instead.

Oh, there are shotgun shells sold under the Imperial name now and if I'm not wrong they're made up here, but it's someone who bought the name I believe.

When we run across Imperial brass or even old Dominion for some of the odd rounds they loaded for, we'll grab them for the brass for sure.



As mentioned I've had decent luck with Dominion brass and once inspected the Imperial isn't terrible, but surely not like say Winchester brass from 30 years back and absolutely not Norma or RWS.

Anyways, it's part of Canada's history so I like to collect it, but mostly just for that reason.



That said, our girls are already telling me they don't want to deal with all my "stuff" so I either need to remain healthy as I age or begin to disperse some of it.

Best to you once more sir.

Dwayne

Bob, I took some pictures for you to examine.

KKSP cores were actually held inside the jacket using two crimps. A stab crimp which Bill made reference to. As well, the cannelure also gripped the core. If you look closely at the cannelure, you can see how it impresses into the jacket.

KKSPs, SPs and Sabre Tips were also available to reloaders. Before about 1986 when the civilian division stopped selling to the public, these were readily available everywhere. They were Canada's go-to cartridges. Hunting cartridges are still produced by IVI - Valcartier Industries - but are not made available to the public. They are issued as military survival cartridges and given to the Cdn Rangers.

They were packaged in boxes of 20 like every other cartridge, but before they went to plastic sleeves which could be worn on the belt, they used cardboard, like in the picture. They got wet and came apart in your pocket in bad weather,

The KKSPs were a good bullet, but like the Remington 788, some folks exaggerated their performance.

Here are some pictures to illustrate.

Yes nice pics. Thank you if i' m not mistaken those 303's must 70's vintage , the almost like foil coated card board boxes with the red oval and cil lettering. The boxes on these 7x57 are a brass color and have the red oval with iVI in there. These also have the yellow 10 rd plastic shell carriers. Do you guys shoot them or are they reduced to collector stuff ? Mb

Some people shoot them. You see Dominion/CIL/Imperial/IVI branded ammunition on collector sites. I am not a collector, so I do not know which particular cartridges are collectibles. They have been out of circulation for a long time, so I suppose if people continue to use them, the ones that remain will only increase in value.

$46.99 per plus tax for Federal blue box . Too much

I load my own, which is also not cheap

I’m saving the KKSP for a special occasion

Dwayne

Fine as frogs hair here , hopefully life is treating you well

Will do , but will have to be tomorrow

All the best
Lorne

My father worked for C.I.L. fir over 30 years, ended up as Shooting Sports Development Manager .
I have used their ammo and components since I started shooting in the mid 60's. Their smallbore match ammo was good, but not as good as the Eley, which they Franchised later on the history of the company.
I have killed many animals with the Saber Tips and KKSP'S in .30 and .311.
Cat

Here is the result of a .311, 215 grain KKSP on a moose calf at over 250 yards, muzzle velocity of 2774 FPS from my Ruger single shot.
Entry

The exit was over 5/8"

Cat

But, but, how is this possible?!? You didn't use a Partition! Or a copperized, monosyllabic penetrator! Did the bullet have fins on it like a '56 Cadillac?

Good shot! The 303 strikes again!

Nothing but sensible design with ballistics in mind !:>)
I do use Barnes 150 TSX'S in my .303 now , but only because my wife found a few bits of lead in the ground meat that we missed one year , otherwise I would still be shooting 180 Saber Tips or 215 KKSP'S
Oh, and that moose went about 10 feet! LOL
Cat

I'm not in Canada, but back in the early '90s, an ammo dealer in Georgia was blowing out large quantities of late production Imperial ammo. I bought a lifetime supply (for me) of .38-55. This stuff is rated at 1600 fps, considerably hotter than the watered down Winchester load. I've killed a couple deer with it, needless to say, it works. I also have one box of Imperial .25/35 Win that I need to put to use on deer.