Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Canada Ivi Imperial centerfire rifle ammo

That was back in the days when we saw more European rifles and ammunition. Prices for Sakos and other quality rifles were generally lower than what you saw in the States.

One of my big mistakes was not bringing back as many rifles as I could afford when I was stationed in Germany. No taxes or import duties. Lots of quality rifles, shotguns and handguns were available dirt cheap through the US and Cdn rod and gun clubs.

Generally speaking, they were 60% cheaper than Cdn retail.

Are you talking about the pneumatic tip?
That had an I indented tip .
All the CPE's I have ever seen and the Bronze Points look identical.

Cat

I have some pneumatics. The CPE does have a hollow copper tip while the Bronze Point tip is solid. In this particular case, Remington was first but the first plastic tips were from CIL (the Sabre Tip). GD

Graydog do you mean hollow as in behind the tip in the body of the bullet itself?
Cat

Cat, I dug out my notes from when I started my armament training in Borden. I found a picture and some information.

The CPE bullets were introduced in the 1920s. 180s were introduced in 1922 and a couple of years later, the 150s were released (1924).

Sabre Tips came out in 1964.

I have this picture showing the guts of the bullets.

Yeah, it was probably 1964 that I saw my first Sabre-Tip and thought they were a pretty cool looking bullet. So it was that I pestered Dad to buy me a box of 150's for my 303. They accounted for a bull elk at about 350 yds. Prior to this, I used CPE's. Later on, I switched to Sierras because I had moved to Idaho and CIL bullets were unavailable. Still, I used some left-over 215 KKSP's for hunting whitetails in timber and they worked great.
By the way, indicative of changing times, I crossed the border on a Greyhound bus in 1965. The Lee Enfield was with my suitcase, in the luggage compartment. In the suitcase, I had my Lee Loader, bullets, primers, some loaded ammo and two pounds of Hi-Vel 2. The border guard was interested in the loading kit. He didn't seem too concerned over a 15 year old kid travelling with his rifle and loading gear. Today, they would just drag me out to the nearest tree and call for a rope! GD

I don't remember the prices, but it seemed to me that the CPEs were more expensive than the KKs. Maybe it was that particular hardware store. When I started reloading, I bought the cheapest bullets I could find. At the time, 224 Remington Core Lokts were about as cheap as a guy could find. Big game bullets though were always CILs. It wasn't until I was 20 maybe that I tried big game bullets other than CILs.

Back then, the only big game rifle I owned was a 303, and thought that 215s were as good as it got. Upon reflection, I probably started with one of the better bullets and used them for about 10 years. Then they went out of business. It's nostalgia I would say, but those KKs always worked - and the Speers that I went to after.

Like you, I miss the uncomplicated way of life. A person cannot live in the past, but in some respects, it was better.

When I had a 7.62 x54r Russian rifle I searched for some of those .311 215 gr kksp for the .312 bore of that old rifle. never did find any.

This thread prompted me to Google Imperial and I ran across this. I had no idea that this cartridge was ever factory loaded. Were commercial rifles actually produced, or was it such a popular wildcat in Canada that there was enough demand for factory ammo?

When I was In Australia some years back,, I bought 4 boxes of Woodleigh .312 215gr bullets. I had to E-mail the sporting good store for them to order them in and I had to fax them my PAL.

SCGunNut;
Good morning to you sir, I trust that this last day of the week is progressing properly in your part of South Carolina and that you and yours are well.

Since you've asked a general question, I'll respond that in a lifetime of fooling with firearms I've handled exactly one Epps made rifle which was built on a commercial FN Mauser action and then handled one .25/303 rifle.

I think it was a .25/303 anyways as I'm attempting to recall the details of it. It was on a very modified No 4 LE action where the rear action socket had been removed, the action reshaped extensively and a hinged floorplate was made or modified to look like it belonged. The whole thing was given a polish and deep, rich blue job and was set in one of the nicest grained fiddleback maple stocks I've looked at.

A buddy had it, purchased from a widow when he agreed to disperse all her late husband's collection and projects as a very talented hobby gunsmith. If memory serves I ended up with at least one rifle and perhaps two, but that detail is lost to me this morning sorry.

Anyways sir, all that to say that in my experience in western Canada, it was not common at all.

The IMI ammo box you've shown could surely be IMI Kynoch which makes sense perhaps? The mentioning of a "single flash hole" suggests to me it's European or British as most Canadian made ammunition had Boxer primers, certainly all the civilian stuff I've found - including the oldest Dominion brass I've run across.

Maybe it was big in New Zealand or Australia?

Sorry I can't help you more.

All the best.

Dwayne

Ahh, seems you are exactly right, here's another picture....made in Australia!




Looks like there were other options as well.







That makes complete sense now as I remember this cartridge in my 40 year old "Cartridges Of The World" book being listed as very popular "Down Under". Still didn't realize it was factory loaded. Cool! Thanx for chiming in!

303/25 ammunition was never produced in Canada. The only way to shoot it here was to have a gunsmith rebarrel a rifle and shooters would reload for it.

The 303/25 was a popular cartridge in Australia where it was designed and built. It was used to harvest kangaroos among other animals. It was produced commercially for years. 22, 6mm cartridges based on the 303 were also done.

There was even a 7.7x54r which was a 303 British, shortened slightly so that it could skirt an Australian law that prohibited civilians from owning 303 rifles.

The Australians are a bunch of smart fellows.

For some insane reason, I want one now. Sort of a .25/35 on steroids.

I know what you mean.

303s were wildcatted in every caliber up to 375. I would like a single shot in 6mm/303 and a 6.5 Epps. I would get Match Grade Machine to make me some, but they need the reamer. It would be very expensive!

Edited to Add: Let's talk about IMI for a bit. IMI started their Australian division in the late 1960s. They were metal fabricators and ammunition manufacturers. The 'single hole' reference on the box told buyers they were getting Boxer primed ammunition that could be reloaded. A lot of ammunition was Berdan primed back then.

If you have any questions about IMI Australia, it's best to check in with the Australian forum. They should be able to answer any questions you might have.