Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Winchester Collectors Pre 64 Winchester Model 70 Magnums

That is a beauty! You can't blame the seller for wanting to get all he can for his rifle. It's what I was getting at before... the demand isn't too high at that price, or it would have sold already. Now would the same standard rifle built just a bit earlier with the cloverleaf tang command that price, or even be considered a deal?

I'm out of the market for awhile, but if something turns up that I consider a great deal I can't pass up, that could change. I hope there is enough money left to buy a blender, and a straw, if that happens.lol

It was just listed yesterday. That is the starting reserve for an auction, not a buy it now. I think if it were my listing, I would have done a true auction. We will know in a week if anyone wants it at that price.

For a true collector, Dave Morris currently has a supergrade listed on guns international for 25% more than the above, that is probably a better “value.”

My first two were magnums, a pair of aces in fact. The .300 is in nice shape and shoots good but in a later MC stock. I had no idea at the time. The .375 is in nice shape, has two filled holes in the receiver from a side mount. Was missing the folding leaf in the rear sight too. I found a folding leaf and put it in there until I can find something better. The .300 went to Africa; the .375 was going and didn't make it. Both of them were owned by one of my partners who died way too young. It was a good deal for me and a good deal for his wife.

The .375 above is a beauty and highly collectible rifle but wouldn't mean as much to me. The guns I bought wouldn't mean as much to you, either. And all of it is part of the fun.

All so true BK.

If I wanted one to hunt, I would find a 375 that had side holes and a cut stock and drop it into a brown and be done with it. But what fun would that be?

I know right! I have a couple of McM's I bought here, and sometimes I drop a barreled action into one of them from time to time when I take them out hunting. The .243 and the .308 I leave in their wood tho. I shouldn't take the .243 out but I do sometimes, if its a nice day.

I have only shot the .375 at the range, despite owning it for 15 years. Its a beast to carry. Has a Leupold 1-4x20 on it, looks perfect. I put a gloss Leupold 3-9x40 on it, looks like it belongs there.

The seller of the 375 (that never made it to Alaska), may not be far off in his pricing. I was just looking at completed sales from my watchlist and noticed this one that sold for the buy it now price over the weekend …

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/986561210

Gee I guess he isn't. I was thinking he was off by 800-1000. Wow.

It closed before without any bids. That is why I said, it would have already sold if it was a buy at that price. I don't know how many times it was re-listed. I'm not saying it won't ever sell at 4k. The other one that sold for 3375 was it up long? Some guns on GB just get re-listed over and over.

With what serial on the magnums did Winchester start drilling the rear bridge?

They were the latest of the transition guns to get drilled. Supposedly because there was not universal agreement on spacing for the mounts. Lou over on the Winchester collectors association forum has documented undrilled gun as late as 1950; rule also states that many H&H length actions were manufactured without holes late into 1950 (page 137). 121,500 was the approximate start of the type III (non cloverleaf) for the h&h; again per Rule.

They get re-listed until someone bids on them and buys them. The one for $4,000.00 is priced high. The reason it has not sold. As for when they were drilled and tapped on the rear bridge, depends entirely on the rifle. The H&H magnums were weird in that respect. You will find some that were produced in 1950, that may not have been d&t. There is one shown on page 133 of Rule's book. As he states, the H&H and "clip slot target rifles were the last to have the standardized pre-drilled holes". He also says that some only had 1 hole drilled in the rear bridge, "during the changeover". Just a FYI.

Debatable if guns with a single hole in the bridge were factory d&t

4k is a high price in my way of thinking. Even if a rifle has an actual value that high, the market is not that large, and it could take more time to sell in comparison to a lesser rifle priced at 2k. The investment aspect takes on a different buyer. A Super Grade being a higher end investment upside in any caliber.

Was there any distinction in the D&T timetable for magnums between Standard & Super Grade rifles?
In military rifle collection circles there are quite a few survey's conducted to confirm or not, whether established timelines, and serial #'s are correct lines in the sand that differentiate changes. These surveys are valued for firearms with much less values than the Pre-64 Model 70. I still don't have Roger Rule's book, but wonder lacking factory records how wise it is to rely on solely one publication, or older ones when we are dealing with the high dollars these rifles bring these days. I hope I didn't rub anyone the wrong way that feels like it's the bible.
Are there ongoing surveys being conducted? If there are it could weed out, or confirm some debatable issues like the single hole in the bridge issue.

I appreciate the info!

If you look up Louis Luttrell over on the Winchester collector website, he has been collecting this data for years. I have never seen it published collectively, but he puts out bits and pieces in various threads.

https://winchestercollector.org/forum/winchester-research-surveys/

According to Rule they were. Just about anything was possible during the transition years.

You are correct. I must’ve missed it the first time it went through. Looks like this is its second listing. It got listed after this one sold. He’s not too out of line on his price.

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/977169626

Regarding the $3375 gun, it looks like first bid came in on May 11, and it sold on May 20 Buy it now - so nine days.

My best bet on finding one is probably an estate sale or auction not attached to the internet. I've been to some auctions that have both live and internet bidding, and almost everything goes to the online bidders. I'm looking everything over in person, and I can't bid what they do. There is often something not shown in the pictures very well.

Thanks, I'll check out that site, and look through some of Lewis Luttrell's posts.

Just don’t fall for this scammer. This is Dave Morris’s supergrade listed on guns international.

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/988700877

This kind of problem is what makes people flock to dealers. It probably is a cause for higher prices, just for the security of the transaction. Gun Broker should be quicker to remove this. Thanks for the heads up.

I don't mind buying online. I have a C&R license, I've never been burned. You on the other hand might want to focus your attention on gunshows or finding out who's who in the 70 world and seeing if one of those guys would part with one. That's not my comfort zone but it might be yours. Put out some feelers, go to Tulsa or Cody, join the WACA, stuff like that. You might do real well. You won't find a bargain but you won't get burned badly either.

Gun Broker just sent me a message "Don't let these items get away" and it was promoting this scammer.