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Originally Posted by ironbender
Originally Posted by Ringman
So yes. I know how it works. It doesn’t. You believe everything came from nothing, contrary to the basic premise of science: A result cannot be equal to or greater than its cause.

Originally Posted by Ringman
The Bible says God called into existence that which did exist. There is no room for evolution.


I believe this is what is called a conundrum.

See the post about the Infinite Being.


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Originally Posted by wabigoon
What do you think? That makes the rainbow make sense.

Are you pleased with the direction of your thread?


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Originally Posted by Ringman
Originally Posted by BeardedGunsmith
Originally Posted by Ringman
Originally Posted by BeardedGunsmith
Everything came from something or had a start, whether by God or evolution. There's also the aspect of existence being eternal and we just can't comprehend it with our finite thoughts.

The Bible says God called into existence that which did exist. There is no room for evolution.
That would beg the question how God came to exist. Again, there is either a beginning for everything, including God, or existence itself is eternal. I understand it's easier to believe in magical powers but I no longer do.

You are asking a question akin to the question, to whom is the bachelor married. An Infinite Being requires no beginning. Otherwise the Infinite Being is not infinite.
If there is the possibility for an infinite being, then there is the chance of an infinite universe with no need for a creator. An infinite universe means that anything that can happen, will not only happen but happen over and over again for an infinite time.

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Originally Posted by Hastings
Originally Posted by Ringman
Originally Posted by BeardedGunsmith
Everything came from something or had a start, whether by God or evolution. There's also the aspect of existence being eternal and we just can't comprehend it with our finite thoughts.

The Bible says God called into existence that which did exist. There is no room for evolution.
Ringman: Why don't you drive over to Fossil Butte National Monument near Kemmerer, Wyoming and look around, go through the visitor center museum. This world has been around a long time and there are bones and fossils to prove it.

There is no substitute for travel and study with an open mind. You may have been misled. I cannot believe a just God would mind if you inquired and looked into the evidence that this complete inundation of the world and the less than 10,000 year timeline are false.

I am not atheist and I believe you are a sincere man but some things just don't add up.

By the way when we were there 3 or 4 years ago we stayed at the Fossil Butte Motel in Kemmerer. Mrs. Jean runs a good place and it is reasonably priced if you want to stay a few days.


Edited to add: It was September of 2019 when we were at Fossil Butte


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Originally Posted by BeardedGunsmith
Originally Posted by Ringman
Originally Posted by BeardedGunsmith
Originally Posted by Ringman
Originally Posted by BeardedGunsmith
Everything came from something or had a start, whether by God or evolution. There's also the aspect of existence being eternal and we just can't comprehend it with our finite thoughts.

The Bible says God called into existence that which did exist. There is no room for evolution.
That would beg the question how God came to exist. Again, there is either a beginning for everything, including God, or existence itself is eternal. I understand it's easier to believe in magical powers but I no longer do.

You are asking a question akin to the question, to whom is the bachelor married. An Infinite Being requires no beginning. Otherwise the Infinite Being is not infinite.
If there is the possibility for an infinite being, then there is the chance of an infinite universe with no need for a creator. An infinite universe means that anything that can happen, will not only happen but happen over and over again for an infinite time.

There is no possibility of an infinite being. Your logic is quite flawed.


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Originally Posted by LRoyJetson
One strategic "clap" and we could have been mosquito free today.

I have thought the same thing many times. If there were only two, I find it rather amazing they didn't get et by a bird.


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Originally Posted by Ringman
Originally Posted by BeardedGunsmith
Originally Posted by Ringman
Originally Posted by BeardedGunsmith
The Noah flood story:
1. Where did the water go?
2. How did they breathe when the air would have been deadly thin at that altitude?
3. How did they stay warm at that altitude?
4. What did the carnivores eat when they first landed?
5. How are there fresh and salt water fish?
6. How did polar bears get back to the arctic and kangaroos to Australia?
7. How did all of the animals fit on the boat given that math proves that the volumetric size of the animals exceeds the size of the boat by the dimensions in the Bible?

I will address #3 to display your foolishness. The ack was at sea level!
Foolishness? It's an honest question. Sea level at that moment was higher than the highest mountain peaks where the air would have been too thin to breathe and so cold that you would freeze to death. Ever see the bodies on Mt Everest?

You don't understand sea level. The water would push up the atmosphere.

Please stop, I almost chocked on my beverage!


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Originally Posted by Hastings
Originally Posted by SuperCub
It is our human nature to reject God as we prefer to worship ourselves instead. You are not alone in this and it's not your choice.

Those who God choses to be blind have a lot to lose.
I believe it is in human nature to believe in a supernatural creative force. Has a human society that developed in isolation ever been discovered that didn't worship a deit(y)(ies)? Has there ever been a primitive society that didn't believe their lives and the world were influenced by a power outside their actual knowledge?

Now as it was back then, men will take advantage of this and set themselves up as arbiters for "God". It is a lucrative gig if you can get it. And those arbiters have been willing to kill anyone that threatens to expose the fraud. That is why Jesus was killed, that is why the Catholic church burned people to death, that is why Europe has been a bloodbath for centuries. Probably that was behind the witch hunts in America.

Thank God our founders took away the ability of government to enforce religion. Otherwise we might have evolved into Iran or Somalia.

Agree on all points. We all worship something.

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Originally Posted by johnn
Originally Posted by Ringman
Originally Posted by BeardedGunsmith
Originally Posted by Ringman
Originally Posted by BeardedGunsmith
The Noah flood story:
1. Where did the water go?
2. How did they breathe when the air would have been deadly thin at that altitude?
3. How did they stay warm at that altitude?
4. What did the carnivores eat when they first landed?
5. How are there fresh and salt water fish?
6. How did polar bears get back to the arctic and kangaroos to Australia?
7. How did all of the animals fit on the boat given that math proves that the volumetric size of the animals exceeds the size of the boat by the dimensions in the Bible?

I will address #3 to display your foolishness. The ack was at sea level!
Foolishness? It's an honest question. Sea level at that moment was higher than the highest mountain peaks where the air would have been too thin to breathe and so cold that you would freeze to death. Ever see the bodies on Mt Everest?

You don't understand sea level. The water would push up the atmosphere.

Please stop, I almost chocked on my beverage!
Actually, Rich is correct on this point.

Atmospheric pressure would be 15 lb/sq in at sea level, what ever that happened to be.

But you must remember his contention that there were no mountains to cover with water. So sea level would have needed to rise only slightly.

I have heard these twistings of facts from my Uncles, Aunts, Grandparents, Dad, and Pastors for sixty years as they attempt to fit observable facts into their Bible narrative. But none could ever explain how the salt water fishes survived the sudden change in salinity from this influx of fresh water. Nor could they explain the survival of the fresh water fishes which suddenly found themselves in an ocean.

Dinosaurs do not fit anywhere. "Their fossils were placed on Earth by the Great Deceiver." Dad claimed there were never any ice ages. Despite that our 20 acre farm is on top of a large glacial gravel deposit.

When one is convinced that all of Earth's history is crammed into less than 7000 years, one can believe anything. Everything is possible in magic.


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Just as an aside, I was thinking about how the pyramids were built. What do you think about the possibility that they used dinosaurs to help with the heavy lifting?


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Originally Posted by Idaho_Shooter
When one is convinced that all of Earth's history is crammed into less than 7000 years, one can believe anything. Everything is possible in magic.
The literal interpretation of the Genesis creation story, to me, is stupidity beyond belief. We have factual information that proves the earth is much older than 6,000 years or so.

Again, Salvation doesn’t depend on one’s literal interpretation of the Genesis creation story anyway.


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Originally Posted by DBT
Originally Posted by Ringman
Originally Posted by smokepole
Originally Posted by Ringman
Originally Posted by ironbender
Is speciation different from evolution?

Absolutely! Speciation the animals are still the same Biblical "kind". Evolution claims a frog became a prince.

LOL, no wonder you don't "believe in" evolution. You have no idea how it works, and equate it with fairy tales.

You should change your handle to "Aesop."

You are hoping I don't. The fact is like Dr. Jason Lisle, who made discoveries evolutionists didn't, said in a lecture, "Evolution is a superstition with zero evidence."

When Dr. John Stanford was an evolutionists he asked his evolutionists coliege what evidence did he have for evolution. The answer was, " None. We are just like creationists and use faith."

So yes. I know how it works. It doesn’t. You believe everything came from nothing, contrary to the basic premise of science: A result cannot be equal to or greater than its cause.

Except that evolution does work and is proven to work, transitional fossils, genetics, etc.

Your example is crock, something cooked up on a creationist site like AiG.


Nope, pls provide what you think is proof of evolution. Transitional fossils? The claim of transitional fossils is simply biased and self serving error. The geologic column has none…..

Got any ideas about the evolution of the horse? What a joke….

As I have said before, you are choosing to believe error.


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Originally Posted by Ringman
Originally Posted by smokepole
Originally Posted by Ringman
Originally Posted by ironbender
Is speciation different from evolution?

Absolutely! Speciation the animals are still the same Biblical "kind". Evolution claims a frog became a prince.

LOL, no wonder you don't "believe in" evolution. You have no idea how it works, and equate it with fairy tales.

You should change your handle to "Aesop."

You are hoping I don't. The fact is like Dr. Jason Lisle, who made discoveries evolutionists didn't, said in a lecture, "Evolution is a superstition with zero evidence."

When Dr. John Stanford was an evolutionists he asked his evolutionists coliege what evidence did he have for evolution. The answer was, " None. We are just like creationists and use faith."

So yes. I know how it works. It doesn’t. You believe everything came from nothing, contrary to the basic premise of science: A result cannot be equal to or greater than its cause.

Ringman: Anyone who says there's no evidence for evolution is an idiot. Creationists have written books attempting to provide alternate interpretations of the evidence, surely you've read some. And you can cite a PhD here or there that doesn't believe in evolution but I'll say it again: 99+ percent of PhD's do believe in the theory, and the fact that a handful here and there don't is only remarkable because they are the exception to the rule.



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Gilgamesh is the original telling. 7500 years ago glacial ice melt raised the Mediterranean Sea until it broke through the Bosporus flooding the Black Sea. Very true. There was no rain !

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Originally Posted by smokepole
Originally Posted by Ringman
Originally Posted by smokepole
Originally Posted by Ringman
Originally Posted by ironbender
Is speciation different from evolution?

Absolutely! Speciation the animals are still the same Biblical "kind". Evolution claims a frog became a prince.

LOL, no wonder you don't "believe in" evolution. You have no idea how it works, and equate it with fairy tales.

You should change your handle to "Aesop."

You are hoping I don't. The fact is like Dr. Jason Lisle, who made discoveries evolutionists didn't, said in a lecture, "Evolution is a superstition with zero evidence."

When Dr. John Stanford was an evolutionists he asked his evolutionists coliege what evidence did he have for evolution. The answer was, " None. We are just like creationists and use faith."

So yes. I know how it works. It doesn’t. You believe everything came from nothing, contrary to the basic premise of science: A result cannot be equal to or greater than its cause.

Ringman: Anyone who says there's no evidence for evolution is an idiot. Creationists have written books attempting to provide alternate interpretations of the evidence, surely you've read some. And you can cite a PhD here or there that doesn't believe in evolution but I'll say it again: 99+ percent of PhD's do believe in the theory, and the fact that a handful here and there don't is only remarkable because they are the exception to the rule.


Ok, I’ll play….. give me evidence for evolution….. examples, not just what some other source “says.”


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Originally Posted by Ringman
Originally Posted by BeardedGunsmith
Originally Posted by Ringman
Originally Posted by BeardedGunsmith
Originally Posted by Ringman
Originally Posted by BeardedGunsmith
Everything came from something or had a start, whether by God or evolution. There's also the aspect of existence being eternal and we just can't comprehend it with our finite thoughts.

The Bible says God called into existence that which did exist. There is no room for evolution.
That would beg the question how God came to exist. Again, there is either a beginning for everything, including God, or existence itself is eternal. I understand it's easier to believe in magical powers but I no longer do.

You are asking a question akin to the question, to whom is the bachelor married. An Infinite Being requires no beginning. Otherwise the Infinite Being is not infinite.
If there is the possibility for an infinite being, then there is the chance of an infinite universe with no need for a creator. An infinite universe means that anything that can happen, will not only happen but happen over and over again for an infinite time.

There is no possibility of an infinite being. Your logic is quite flawed.
If there's no possibility of an infinite being (God), than who created him? And if he was created by someone or something, than we can assume the universe is infinite. Hence the conundrum.

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Originally Posted by TF49
Originally Posted by smokepole
Originally Posted by Ringman
Originally Posted by smokepole
Originally Posted by Ringman
Originally Posted by ironbender
Is speciation different from evolution?

Absolutely! Speciation the animals are still the same Biblical "kind". Evolution claims a frog became a prince.

LOL, no wonder you don't "believe in" evolution. You have no idea how it works, and equate it with fairy tales.

You should change your handle to "Aesop."

You are hoping I don't. The fact is like Dr. Jason Lisle, who made discoveries evolutionists didn't, said in a lecture, "Evolution is a superstition with zero evidence."

When Dr. John Stanford was an evolutionists he asked his evolutionists coliege what evidence did he have for evolution. The answer was, " None. We are just like creationists and use faith."

So yes. I know how it works. It doesn’t. You believe everything came from nothing, contrary to the basic premise of science: A result cannot be equal to or greater than its cause.

Ringman: Anyone who says there's no evidence for evolution is an idiot. Creationists have written books attempting to provide alternate interpretations of the evidence, surely you've read some. And you can cite a PhD here or there that doesn't believe in evolution but I'll say it again: 99+ percent of PhD's do believe in the theory, and the fact that a handful here and there don't is only remarkable because they are the exception to the rule.


Ok, I’ll play….. give me evidence for evolution….. examples, not just what some other source “says.”


1) The fossil record.
2) Ontogeny recapitulate phylogeny. Google it.



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Originally Posted by antlers
Originally Posted by Idaho_Shooter
When one is convinced that all of Earth's history is crammed into less than 7000 years, one can believe anything. Everything is possible in magic.
The literal interpretation of the Genesis creation story, to me, is stupidity beyond belief. We have factual information that proves the earth is much older than 6,000 years or so.

Again, Salvation doesn’t depend on one’s literal interpretation of the Genesis creation story anyway.

Antlers,

You are correct, anyone’s interpretation of Genesis is not a factor in salvation. But, folks will dredge up any old falsehood to justify their non-belief. They can’t see truth and prefer to adhere to self serving falsehood.

idahoshooters reference to the 7000 year number is just an old tired strawman. We’ve all seen it before. The Bible does not say the earth was created in 6000 years or so. What it does say is that God did it. God, the Creator, DID it.

How He did it is another issue.


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