Home Forums Reloading Big Game Rifles RL19 and 338 Win Mag

I am thinking of working up a load for my pre-64 Model 70 in .338 Win Mag. My plans are to utilize the 225 grain Nosler Accubond, Norma brass, and initially RL19 powder. I have a concern regarding RL19. This will be my first time working with it and somewhere in my foggy memory I seem to recall someone talking of significant fluctuations in velocity w/r/t ambient temperature. More significant than you would see with IMR4350 for example. Since I live in Alabama (warm) and the intended target will be Montana elk (cold), I wondered if anyone out there has had experience with RL19 in this regard.



Big Red



P.S. I just read another thread on the .338 Win Mag and RL22 seems to be preferred in most of those cases over RL19. The same question though - can I expect unusual velocity fluctuations with RL22 over temperature variations when compared to other powders?



Big Red

My experience with the Alliant propellants is that any fluctuations in velocity tighten up close to the maximum loads. I've never had any luck with RL19 in anything, yet in about a dozen 338 Win Mags, that is the powder of choice providing the best combination of accuracy and velocity. I've seen SD's in the single digits many times using about 74-76g of it behind Nosler 225's, depending on the rifle. It has always shot best for me at close to maximum loads. Not so with RL19.

I also have a pre-�64, �Alaskan� Model 70 Winchester in .338 Win. Magnum with a 26� barrel. I �retired� the big Winchester a few years ago in favor of the lighter recoiling Savage Model 99 in .300 Savage caliber since all I now hunt is whitetails.



If I were still using the .338 magnum, I would look into the Hodgdon line of rifle powders because I noticed velocity loss using IMR powders as the temperatures got colder, too.



I used maximum loads of IMR4350 behind 200 grain Nosler Ballistic Tips and 210 grain Nosler Partitions for 3060 fps and 3020 fps respectively in Winchester brass. I�ve never loaded the 225 grain bullets or used the RL powders.



I understand that SOME of the Hodgdon powders are now �insensitive� to temperature changes. I looked them up and found that H4350 and H4831� as well as H4831SC (�SC� for �short cut� for the smaller, more easily metered grains of powder), which has the same burning rate as H4831, are all INSENSITIVE to temperature changes according to the manufacturer.



These two Hodgdon powders have burning rates very similar to IMR4350 and IMR4831 which are pefect for use in the .338 Winchester Magnum. Since these Hodgdon rifle powders BOTH are quite well-suited to work in the .338 Winchester Magnum, you might re-consider the brand of rifle powders with which you intend to experiment.



The Hodgdon Basic Reloader�s Manual for 2003, a small abbreviated �hand-out� type reloading handbook often given away free of charge at reloading supply dealers, shows a compressed, maximum load of 75.5 grains of H4831 in Winchester cases using Winchester Large Rifle Magnum primers push a 210 grain Nosler Partition bullet down a 24-inch barrel and yield a muzzle velocity of 2888 fps with 52,300 C.U.P.



Using 70.0 grains of H4350 with the same components & barrel, the yield for a 210 grain Nosler Partition bullet is 2855 fps with 51,800 C.U.P.



I believe that Norma brass has thicker walls than Winchester brass. If this is so, you might get higher pressure using the same loads in your Norma brass and, therefore, these loads may NOT BE SAFE IN YOUR RIFLE, so you should �work up� to the above �maximum loads� very carefully watching for high pressure signs.



I downed a huge moose in Canada using this same 210 grain Nosler Partition Bullet. He dropped like a rock & never even "twitched". It�s remaining weight is/was 148 grains and the front half �mushroomed� beautifully. I can assure you that the 210 gr. Nosler Partition is more than �enough� bullet for an elk as long as you do your job and put the bullet in the elk�s �kill zone�.



The wide differential in temperatures between where you �work up� your hunting loads and where you use them seems enough of a reason to check out these two Hodgdon rifle powders.



And.. �No�� I don�t have any stock in Hodgdon Powder Company� Hahahahahaha! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />





Strength & Honor�



Ron T.

BigRed; My pet load for many years in my 338 Win. Mag has been the 210 Nosler Partition chased by 78 Grains of Reloder 19 in a Winchester case fired by the WLRM primer. I have not seen any great fluctuations in velocities and where I live, one can find himself hunting in -40�F temperatures late in the season. This load shoots around .7" in my 700 BDL and makes real close to 3000 FPS. Elk and other big stuff never know what hit them. If you prefer the 225, I would work up to around 75/76 grains carefully. Regards, Eagleye.

RL-22 shoots well in my .280 but is temperature-sensitive (at least to high temps). At 60-70 degrees a maximum charge (59.5 gr. with a 139-gr. Hornady) is 3000 fps and 1 MOA. At 90-95 degrees it's 3050+ fps and groups open up to 1.25 MOA or so. Loads still appear quite safe and according to responses in an "Ask the Gunwriters" thread there should be enough cushion in the SAAMI maximums to allow use up to 120 (won't be use by me, though).

The velocity change is right around the 2 fps per degree Fahrenheit that Mule Deer suggests as a rule of thumb in one of his "Handloader" articles.

For now I will shoot the batches I've got, but sparingly, and next year work up a separate hot and cold weather load. When I run low on RL-22 (a ways out yet) I may try H1000 for grins.

John

Thank you all for the input. As much as I wish it, occasionally, but seldom, is there one easy answer in this reloading business. All of your inputs are interesting and useful. Thanks!

Big Red

Bobski,

Thanks for your response, but I am a little confused. You didn't specifically say it, but I think I can interpret that you have had good luck with the RL22. IS that true?

Thanks
Big Red

Since you asked about RL19 I didn't elaborate on RL22.

Yep. I've developed loads for over a dozen 338's, all in the 225, 230 and 250g bullets using all the slow propellants that fill the case. In all but one the powder preferred by them was RL22. It gave the best combination of accuracy and velocity in all cases except the one which preferred N160. RL19 was tried but was NEVER in the mix. As much as I would like to use the Hodgdon Extreme line, neither H4350 or H4831 has worked for me. Neither has IMR7828 or AA3100, though I have one right now for someone from Wyoming which seems to shoot H4350 pretty well with 225's. They can use that temperature stability in their cold weather.

Around 73g has worked well as a top load for 250g bullets, and around 75-76 has worked well for 225's and 230's. One right now is shooting the Nosler Accubonds quite well with 78g!!

If you do end up with Alliant propellants, whether it's RL19 or RL22, bear in mind Alliant recommends NOT using magnum primers unless they specify them. They don't for the 338 Win Mag. I found Federal 210M's gave about 10fps higher velocity than 215M's, and better extreme spreads, standard deviation and accuracy.

Bobski,

Thanks for the info.

Big Red

With a name like BigRed, I woulda thought you were from around here!! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

My experience with R-19 has been great- even better than R-22. I think R-22 is a little slow for the 338 mag to get perfect results. Even in my 340 WBY I had much better results with R-19 than with R-22 with anything LIGHTER than 250 grainers. My best loads were with 225 Hornadys and R-19. This was the only combination that would shoot Sub MOA @ 300 and 400 yds. Never could get even a single good group out of the Mule deer prefered 200 grain ballistic tips. Never got better than 2 1/2" groups with blue bullets either!

I didn't find much variation in temp vs velocity but I didn't chrono these loads over more than a 30 degree temp variation. I do think the Hogdon's extreme line are better when it comes to temperature insensitivity but that is also not something that is worth ruling out other powders - especially if you are trying to find an accurate target load.

My 338 Winnie loves RL19 & Fed 210s under the 200gr BTs. Pushing em at 3020fps out a 23"bbl. Groups are averaging .7s with a couple groups in the .4s.

RL19 and 225grs were another story. The best groups were 1.5" but this was using mag (WLRM) primers. I took Bobski's advice ( <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />) and tried RL22 and the Fed 210s under the Hornady 225s. This shrank the groups to just under MOA with a average velocity of 2844fps.

I tried the same approach with the Nosler 225gr Accubonds and what do you know? Groups under MOA again with velocities at 2870fps! I only shot a few groups with this load before I ran out of time, it looks as though this will the load for this rifle after a little more fine tuning.

MtnHtr

Since you mentioned it while I was in the middle of working up .338 loads, I decided to test the proposition.

My previous best light-bullet load was a 200-gr. Ballistic Tip over 65.0 gr. of RL-15, with a CCI 250 (magnum) primer. About 2950 fps and usually about 1". In my rifle this bullet must be seated well out to get to .030" from the lands, but it has a .375 H&H length magazine so no problem.

I shot all those up -- for the next batch I tried a different lot of RL-15 and Federal 210M (standard match) primers. At 63.0 gr. the 3-shot group was huge, 4"+. At 64.0 it tightened up some, don't have the notes here but around 1.5 MOA. At 65.0 -- one group 0.6 MOA, other group 0.8 MOA. Average a bit over 2900 fps -- slower than before, but I figure that's probably the powder.

Out of curiosity I tried the exact same loads with Fed. 215M (magnum) primers). Got 1.5" or better with all groups, much smaller velocity spreads with all charge levels, and the last two groups were about the same as with the standard primers. Perhaps strangely, velocities were just a little lower (still over 2900 fps); but that may be day-to-day variations in light angle on the Chrony, etc. However, this will be the load for using up the rest of those bullets, for sure.

JF