Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Elk Hunting Finding Mature Bulls on Public Land

I would reiterate what Shrapnel and Tinman said, plus throw this in there. Look hard at your top and ONX maps of your area, pick out the spots you would LEAST like to have to climb up to and in to.....and go there.

I have hunted Colorado now about 46 years. New Mexico 9-10 years. I have taken 4 bigger mature bulls, many smaller ones and some cows . All on public land except one guided hunt in Alberta back in the eighties. That works out to about a big mature bull every 14-15 years. I might have doubled that if I held out instead of shooting the first legal bull that walked by.

As mentioned previously some areas just don't have the genes to grow big bulls or available forage might not be present.

Those bigger bulls usually go off and find a hidey hole after rut in some mean nasty country. I am not enough of a horn hunter to venture into those areas very often at my age when I can kill a mediocre bull or cow with a lot less work.

As for steep slopes, you can find bulls and cows from the flats all the way up the rocky ramparts and everything in between.

If your buddies are not l killing elk and you are,they are not trying hard enough.People hunt for a lot of various reason and some actually don't care if they don't punch tag

Elk will typically be on a north facing slope as opposed to south facing. They like cooler spots as opposed to warmth.

Think of it this way: elk are always wearing a heavy coat. All year. They wanna stay cool if they can. They will do whatever they can to stay cool.

South facing slopes typically have less trees. I find getting on a south facing slope and glassing a north facing slope helpful. It can be a challenge though looking through all that vegetation on a north slope. The bulls will not be very active. Just eating and laying back down as they are trying to gain weight after the rut so they can survive winter easier.

Bulls are more straw colored whereas cows are a tad darker - say like coffee with creamer.

In November, they won’t come to water daily. It can be days. When they do, it’s often between late evening to first light the next day. So sitting water isn’t a very good strategy in November.

That’s great to hear your with your brothers, T. Can’t beat the camaraderie. I’ll be in Ocean City in two weeks with the boys, offshore fishing for tuna and hopefully some other stuff. I’m very fortunate to have a wife who understands the man she married, and that is willing to let me take off from time to time to do what I love.

I’ve actually drawn 4 years in a row now, although last year I had to settle for a general tag as I didn’t get drawn for the unit permit that we go for. The special permit unit which I know you are familiar with, has a nearly 100% success rate on draws. There are 4 of us going this year and we all got our bull tags. I think last year was a bit of an anomaly.

As it turned out though, I killed last year’s bull just about 3 or so miles from where I killed the first one, although in a general unit last year. Was a real bitch with all the snow and I was fortunate to find the herd I did. I think the spot I found was a staging point for travel into their wintering grounds.

We do know of a spot in that special permit unit where we have seen two nice bulls. We’re planning on trying that area but will need to camp due to the distanced hiked in, and the terrain where we have seen the bulls being about as steep as I care to traverse. The camping part has been a hang up for one of the guys in the group, but that will be less of an issue with 4 of us going this year and the other 2 being all in.

Thanks for providing that perspective, SS. That bit of reality really puts things together for me.

I think the guys really want an elk, in fact I know they do. But their hunting experience is much more limited than mine, and my patience and ability to wait things out is more steadfast than theirs. I’ve been hunting avidly since I was a little guy and I’m very observant. That has led, I like to think, to some very good intuition and ability when it comes to hunting. These guys are just a bit lacking in that realm due to limited experience, but we try. Regardless, I’d hate to be the one that always kills something while they get skunked. Hopefully we can change that this year.

Good info there, FS. I was somewhat aware of the things you said, minus the water part. I will say that the bulls I have killed have been as they have come out to feed in the evening on south facing slopes. My intuition tells me they are feeding on the south slopes in the morning and evening, and then crossing over the ridge to bed down for the day. When I started this post, my original thought was the mature bulls would be nearby to the herd, just off to themselves. But it sounds like they are more likely to be some distance from cows and immature bulls.

I know where to find them but the odds of drawing a tag are less than 1 in 20 and Idaho doesn't have a point system. I'd rather hunt cows than not hunt at all. I've got a cow the last 4 years. Besides, I'm too old to get where they are now, let alone get one out.

The same can be said for some gnarly canyon you don't want to climb down into. Generally that is where they are hiding in the day time. They know no one is going to be going down in to a hell hole.

I cross a river in a small raft to access the backside of a small mountain on a north facing slope with lots of dead fall. . On dry years I bring tennis shoes to cross with hiking poles if water is low enough . Its about 1/2 a Mile off of a paved road.


Also a fan of using tree stands I mostly hunt archery

No ONX for me, Ingwe. Compass, Cairn Catographics map and if I get a little turned around I have a GPS mini. I’d much rather look at a map than a screen.

Big bulls are rarely with cows that time of year.

I also believe a vast majority of bulls will reach 320-330 if they live to be 6-10 years old.

Big bulls are in recovery mode post rut and what they want the most is high quality feed and sanctuary. The high quality feed is crucial and changes a lot post rut to winter range. What they prefer feed wise will vary, but all I'll say is that there are a handful of high quality shrubs and grasses they will travel a long way to find. Combine those plants with some secure country thats difficult to either get to or see, very likely to hold bulls.

Once you find those areas, the bigger bulls will be found there year after year. The only way to f-it up is to kill too many once you find those spots. Why I don't like to hunt with a crowd. You start pounding the chit out of those great spots, and they're easy to shoot them out. Your group of 4 is probably 2 too many.

Weather can really change things, colder weather makes things much easier, snow helps too. I often glass midday and look for tracks in any open areas. Glassing north sides midday can work, best to find places you can shoot across if you happen to get lucky. Elk really don't stay bedded for long periods of time. They may not move slot, but the bulls will get up every few hours, stretch, take a piss, maybe feed a bit, then bed again. If you're out glassing instead of playing grabass at camp, good things happen.

If you're going to still hunt, do it on days with wind, blocks noise and the extra movement from chit blowing around will make it easier to get shots in thick timber. Watch local winds and plan accordingly. Rainy/snowy days are excellent too, scent lays down and the noise and movement works in your favor.

Tracking can pay off too, and if you pay attention elk dont do much at random, usually a reason for everything they do.

In spite of what some claim, mature bulls can be taken every year if you pay attention and know what you're doing.

Greenhorn, who used to post here has killed a few dozen mature bulls in that 320-350 range with a handful of bigger ones. I know 2-3 others who do the same.

I've shot lots of elk, lots of bulls, but I don't like hunting them as much as other things. I've shot a dozen or so 6 points, chit tons of raghorns and cows.

Speaking of crossing rivers...Some years ago, we were elk hunting along the Salmon River near Stanley, ID. We saw a game warden and a forest ranger parked and talking to each other. We had some question so we stopped to talk. They were waiting for 4 Hispanic guys who'd crossed the river on an ATV, ferrying each other across. They might have had a snorkel on the ATV as the water would have been higher than the tires. They'd got a nice bull and had it down to the water getting ready to ferry it across the same way. Er, no they weren't. Crossing that river with a motor vehicle inside a National Recreation Area is strictly forbidden. The officers were waiting to see them 'personally'.

We ran into the game warden again the next day and asked how it all turned out. He said the 1st guy came across with the elk. It was totally legal and properly tagged so they hadn't violated any game laws. The Forest ranger, however, had some action. He hadn't seen them in the morning so he had no proof that they crossed the river with the ATV but he'd seen it over there. So, he'd been watching them all afternoon to catch them returning. He wrote the guy up, a very heavy fine, and for sure wouldn't let him cross the river again to get the other 3 guys. They had a choice of wading the river or hiking 5 miles over a steep ridge in the dark to the nearest bridge. They chose to hike.

They had chosen a great spot to find bulls, though, and it's all public land with good elk numbers. Crossing the river wasn't easy and it was a long hike in over steep rough country, even though it was very close to a major highway. It was ideal for horses as they could easily cross the river. We didn't see any horse trailers around, though.
Things have changed since then. The area has been discovered. Tags are OTC with a limit of 1800. When they go on sale, they usually sell out in 15 to 30 min. It's a real zoo trying to get one. We used to hunt it all the time but quit messing with it when tags got so hard to get.

Thanks RC and Buzz! Both of your posts are great. RC, you never disappoint. Hope you gentlemen are well.

-Jeff

The Bitteroots is vague. The Montana portion is mostly rocky canyons running east-west to the valley below. The Idhao portion comes off the same divide but is turn into a lot of river and stream canyons. The northern part is thick and can be brushy and the southern part us higher and drier.

I’m hunting the southern portion of the MT Bitterroots. I’m trying to ambiguous on that to a point.

Colorado is different than Wyoming, Montana, or Idaho. Elk are managed ( if you can call it that) for quantity, not quality. Before the game department instituted the 4 on a side restriction of antlers, it was hard to find even a branched antler bull. Yes, bulls need to be 5-6 years to get that growth, but if they are all shot off before that, you won't find any, no matter how hard you hunt or how good of a hunter you are.

OTC units fall into that category, but every once in awhile, a good bull is killed in those units.

In Colorado, if you want to consistently take bigger bulls, you pay a trespass fee or hire an outfitter that has private land leased and limits the number of bulls taken each year.

If you want to hunt public land, then you wait with 6-9 years building preference points to draw a tag for a so so area or 25-30 years to draw a tag in on of the better years. It took me 21 points and that was 16 years ago.

Back in the late 70's and 80's I hunted great units, even OTC, every one of those areas were over hunted by the 90's . When CPW boast 18-20% success rate for elk hunters they lump all kills, all seasons, all means of take, cows,bulls and calves into one pot. Draw units that take 10-30 points where success ratio is 80%or more are lumped into OTC units where, in now days, success rate is less than 10%.

In New Mexico, there are no preference points and you typically hunt elk every three years, which means you might kill one or two big bulls in your life time if you only hunt public land

Growing up here in Texas, I remember when it seemed like we just didn’t have big deer where I hunted in the hill country. Around the time I was in high school or maybe after I had left for the Marines, Texas started implementing antler restrictions in some counties. Well, turns out they worked. I think it was so effective, that I’ve found many hunters abiding by those antler restrictions even in counties that don’t have the restrictions.
The effect in my experience has been a lot more bucks reaching maturity and having big antlers and bodies. I think we used to blame genetics and nutrition before we realized the problem was that we were as a culture shooting young bucks, usually with the general mindset that if we didn’t somebody on the other side of the fence would.
I’m sure the same rules would apply for elk. The general theme I’ve heard when hunting OTC elk is to kill the first legal bull you can as it might be your only shot. I empathize and follow that sentiment, but it might be different if I lived in elk country and had more opportunities to hunt them. I’m not a trophy hunter per say. I’ve killed wayyyyy more does than bucks, and I would have happily shot a cow if I ever had a tag. That said, there is a great sense of satisfaction and accomplishment to find a wary old buck when he really doesn’t want to be found. I’d just love to find an old bull off by himself. One day…..

Does anyone know the general bull:cow ratio in MT. I imagine it varies throughout the state of course.

I recall looking at the harvest rates for MT for elk and the bulls were as high as the cows. That would make sense with the standard tag allocation going to bulls, and special licenses for cows. Just thinking how a huge part of most deer mgt programs here rely on killing lots of does.

Depends on the area, lots of public land, think single digits to maybe 10/100 post harvest. Maybe better in some areas with mostly private land.

Montana doesn't manage elk worth a chit.

Big elk turn up in OTC units every year though most (ie all) who kill big bulls yearly put an absurd amount of time in scouting and quite often have a specific bull they watch all summer/fall. There’s nothing wrong with that, in fact I admire it, but it isn’t realistic for a NR who lives 1000 miles away. Priorities do come into play here though and I am sure some do that very thing.

I’d agree that most all bulls can get to 310”+ even with less than stellar genetics if they live long enough but I am referring to ‘big’ bulls in the 350+ range. The 1/10 bull/cow ratio does sound about right for post season OTC Montana hunts though with all the cow tag changes in recent years, I could be totally off base as I just haven’t paid too much attention.