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Re: vietnam eclectic #18552484 07/03/23
Joined: Jun 2007 Posts: 24,670 Likes: 43 Bozeman, MT S shrapnel Campfire Ranger
shrapnel Campfire Ranger S Joined: Jun 2007 Posts: 24,670 Likes: 43 Bozeman, MT	Originally Posted by eclectic The draft ended in 1972. They called up to number 95, I was 83. Someone born in 1954 would not have been eligible for the draft until 1974. . The draft ended in 1973, I was 18 in 1972 and still have my draft cards, 1 with the 1H classification as standard, then 1D as I was in college at that time and enrolled in ROTC. You are confused, and may want to hit your life alert button and get some help…

GB1

Re: vietnam MJones #18552610 07/03/23
Joined: May 2004 Posts: 56,220 Likes: 25 In the Swamps DigitalDan Campfire Kahuna
DigitalDan Campfire Kahuna Joined: May 2004 Posts: 56,220 Likes: 25 In the Swamps	Many years ago I trusted people until they clearly demonstrated they were not deserving. I accepted that Oswald shot Kennedy, and that we had proper basis for involving ourselves in Vietnam. At that time I was not enthused about college and knew that the draft would nail me. Tail end of 1967 I decided to beat the draft, and signed up to be an Army pilot. Reported for duty in Feb '68. Soloed on 5 July '68 and in April '70 was fixin' to get ready to head back to the US of A. I have no regrets other than the buddies that were lost for no good reason. I no longer trust people until it is earned, and likely will never trust the government again. The wars in Korea, Vietnam and the Mideast could have been settled in a very, very short span of time, but our politicians had other plans. If one decides to launch another conflict, they should use the very biggest hammer on the front end. I am..........disturbed. Concerning the difference between man and the jackass: some observers hold that there isn't any. But this wrongs the jackass. -Twain

Re: vietnam RockyRaab #18552654 07/03/23
Joined: Dec 2019 Posts: 1,471 Likes: 13 C Crash_Pad Campfire Regular
Crash_Pad Campfire Regular C Joined: Dec 2019 Posts: 1,471 Likes: 13	Originally Posted by RockyRaab Yup, both Crash Pad and eclectic seem to rank somewhere between dipschit and azzwipe on the manly man scale. A real man raised his hand, took the oath, and did his effing job. \ You are a real man? Or a murdering fool? You could at least have the dignity and courage - the basic humanity - to admit you were used in atrocious crimes against innocent people. You were in a difficult position for sure and may not have understood the truth at the time. Now you do! Admit it. I won't call you a coward or anything more degrading but you need to back the [bleep] off with your jaded insults. Men fragged their commanding officers and smoked heroin for a reason. Kids are still dying from agent orange and cluster bombs. YOU did that! You are no hero or selfless patriot. Draftees suicide themselves every week over what they experienced in "our" wars. I and thousands others at least had the balls to say [bleep] You to the man. So grow up.

Re: vietnam Crash_Pad #18552679 07/03/23
Joined: Jun 2006 Posts: 46,215 Likes: 13 Colorado S smokepole Campfire 'Bwana
smokepole Campfire 'Bwana S Joined: Jun 2006 Posts: 46,215 Likes: 13 Colorado	Originally Posted by Crash_Pad Originally Posted by RockyRaab Yup, both Crash Pad and eclectic seem to rank somewhere between dipschit and azzwipe on the manly man scale. A real man raised his hand, took the oath, and did his effing job. \ You are a real man? Or a murdering fool? You could at least have the dignity and courage - the basic humanity - to admit you were used in atrocious crimes against innocent people. You were in a difficult position for sure and may not have understood the truth at the time. Now you do! Admit it. I won't call you a coward or anything more degrading but you need to back the [bleep] off with your jaded insults. Men fragged their commanding officers and smoked heroin for a reason. Kids are still dying from agent orange and cluster bombs. YOU did that! You are no hero or selfless patriot. Draftees suicide themselves every week over what they experienced in "our" wars. I and thousands others at least had the balls to say [bleep] You to the man. So grow up. If that's what you need to tell yourself, that's fine. But it's bullsh*t. All they did was what their country asked them to. Although "ask" is not the right word in some cases. A wise man is frequently humbled.

Re: vietnam MJones #18552693 07/03/23
Joined: May 2003 Posts: 31,293 Likes: 10 Ogden, Utah RockyRaab Campfire 'Bwana
RockyRaab Campfire 'Bwana Joined: May 2003 Posts: 31,293 Likes: 10 Ogden, Utah	You have to be a man to insult a man, Crash Pad. I'm safe from you. Cleverly disguised as a responsible adult.

IC B2

Re: vietnam MJones #18552701 07/03/23
Joined: May 2017 Posts: 4,933 Likes: 3 Sweet Home W WAM Campfire Tracker
WAM Campfire Tracker W Joined: May 2017 Posts: 4,933 Likes: 3 Sweet Home	Thanks for your service to every Vet, regardless of where and when you served. I read a stat a while back that showed an astonishing 13,853,027 folks claimed to have served in-country during the 2000 census while the DOD records show 2.7 mil actually served. That leaves 4 out 5 claimants to be liars and wannabe’s. Just the other day I ran into a guy wearing a Vietnam vet cap with 173rd Airborne Brigade insignia on it. I thanked him for his service and he went on to expound on his Nam experience. He seemed a little young looking but more importantly, his stories unraveled in about 2 minutes. I never told him that I was a vet of the 173rd in Nam and just walked away from his bullshiit mid sentence. I figured that sent a stronger message than confronting his lies, which he probably believes now… I’m 74 and too old to fist fight and that kind of crap isn’t worth having to shoot some dude in self defense. 🤣 Life Member NRA, RMEF, American Legion, MAGA. Not necessarily in that order.

Re: vietnam Crash_Pad #18552704 07/03/23
Joined: May 2017 Posts: 4,933 Likes: 3 Sweet Home W WAM Campfire Tracker
WAM Campfire Tracker W Joined: May 2017 Posts: 4,933 Likes: 3 Sweet Home	Originally Posted by Crash_Pad Originally Posted by RockyRaab Yup, both Crash Pad and eclectic seem to rank somewhere between dipschit and azzwipe on the manly man scale. A real man raised his hand, took the oath, and did his effing job. \ You are a real man? Or a murdering fool? You could at least have the dignity and courage - the basic humanity - to admit you were used in atrocious crimes against innocent people. You were in a difficult position for sure and may not have understood the truth at the time. Now you do! Admit it. I won't call you a coward or anything more degrading but you need to back the [bleep] off with your jaded insults. Men fragged their commanding officers and smoked heroin for a reason. Kids are still dying from agent orange and cluster bombs. YOU did that! You are no hero or selfless patriot. Draftees suicide themselves every week over what they experienced in "our" wars. I and thousands others at least had the balls to say [bleep] You to the man. So grow up. How can you possibly kill women and children? Well, you just don’t have to lead them as much… Life Member NRA, RMEF, American Legion, MAGA. Not necessarily in that order.

Re: vietnam Crash_Pad #18552714 07/03/23
Joined: May 2004 Posts: 56,220 Likes: 25 In the Swamps DigitalDan Campfire Kahuna
DigitalDan Campfire Kahuna Joined: May 2004 Posts: 56,220 Likes: 25 In the Swamps	CP, you seem to have a knack for ignoring the broad reality that was experienced in Nam. Brutality? The VC and North Vietnam were the masters of brutality and violated the peace accords that saw the French leave town, and later, those they agreed to in ‘73. Most likely you haven’t a clue about the atrocities they committed on a near daily basis. The OP asked if our presence was justified. I think not, but we were not the savages in that war, not by a long shot. I am..........disturbed. Concerning the difference between man and the jackass: some observers hold that there isn't any. But this wrongs the jackass. -Twain

Re: vietnam MJones #18552733 07/03/23
Joined: May 2004 Posts: 10,877 Likes: 1 C CrowRifle Campfire Outfitter
CrowRifle Campfire Outfitter C Joined: May 2004 Posts: 10,877 Likes: 1	Damn what a hat..... RR, DD, Flem, you men shouldn't even acknowledge most here.

Re: vietnam MJones #18552758 07/03/23
Joined: Nov 2013 Posts: 790 D dakota300rum Campfire Regular
dakota300rum Campfire Regular D Joined: Nov 2013 Posts: 790	Big thank you to all the vets!! It takes a commie bastard to criticize the men that were in Vietnam. You can be against the war but to not support those that served is pathetic. I wasn't there and wasn't in the military. I have slightly older friends that were. The circumstances that many were forced to endure to save themselves and buddies is horrendous. My belief is that these wars were unnecessary or at best mishandled. This belief in no way affects my support for all that served, didn’t make it back and are still living with it.

IC B3

Re: vietnam Crash_Pad #18552883 07/03/23
Joined: Mar 2007 Posts: 20,282 Likes: 22 T_Inman Campfire Ranger
T_Inman Campfire Ranger Joined: Mar 2007 Posts: 20,282 Likes: 22	Originally Posted by Crash_Pad Originally Posted by RockyRaab Yup, both Crash Pad and eclectic seem to rank somewhere between dipschit and azzwipe on the manly man scale. A real man raised his hand, took the oath, and did his effing job. \ You are a real man? Or a murdering fool? You could at least have the dignity and courage - the basic humanity - to admit you were used in atrocious crimes against innocent people. You were in a difficult position for sure and may not have understood the truth at the time. Now you do! Admit it. I won't call you a coward or anything more degrading but you need to back the [bleep] off with your jaded insults. Men fragged their commanding officers and smoked heroin for a reason. Kids are still dying from agent orange and cluster bombs. YOU did that! You are no hero or selfless patriot. Draftees suicide themselves every week over what they experienced in "our" wars. I and thousands others at least had the balls to say [bleep] You to the man. So grow up.

Re: vietnam MJones #18552896 07/03/23
Joined: Jun 2004 Posts: 7,197 Likes: 6 G greydog Campfire Tracker
greydog Campfire Tracker G Joined: Jun 2004 Posts: 7,197 Likes: 6	Getting drafted was just a fact of life in the sixties. Life was put on hold while we went to pay our dues. I can't say I was appreciative of the opportunity; I was just getting some momentum in my life. Since then, I have come to believe, everyone should provide two years of service to the nation. Not necessarily in armed forces but some sort of mandatory service. This should be a condition of immigration and a condition of citizenship. Bring back the CCC. Build infrastructure, assist others; do something of value to the nation. After that, when one chooses to whine about the state of the nation, they at least have some skin in the game. There should be no exemptions. As far as Vietnam is concerned, I did not get sent there (I went to Germany which, strangely enough, was not considered an overseas assignment; Alaska was!), so my opinion doesn't mean a lot. Lost classmates there, and later to cancer; likely due to AO exposure. I may not be proud of the government's choices at the time, but I have to respect the sacrifice made by the men. We draftees were young, and still finding our way. It was part of growing up. GD

Re: vietnam RockyRaab #18552917 07/03/23
Joined: Mar 2010 Posts: 10,896 Nebraska FlyboyFlem Campfire Outfitter
FlyboyFlem Campfire Outfitter Joined: Mar 2010 Posts: 10,896 Nebraska	Our missions were strictly based on real time whether it be CAS for our grunts,flying cover for base perimeters, convoys, night watch for POL sites and firebases or defending local hamlets/villages against the slaughter of civilians...As Dan said there was no lack of brutality toward locals suspected of collaboration.. I'm very proud of the AC47's overall mission success as well as blazing the trail for the new modern AC-130 Ghost Rider and variant gunships to come. You better be afraid of a ghost!! "Woody you were baptized in prop wash"..crossfireoops Woody

Re: vietnam dakota300rum #18553035 07/03/23
Joined: Sep 2014 Posts: 21,918 Likes: 7 Clinging to our God and Guns Dillonbuck Campfire Ranger
Dillonbuck Campfire Ranger Joined: Sep 2014 Posts: 21,918 Likes: 7 Clinging to our God and Guns	What Dakota said. X2. Parents who say they have good kids..Usually don't!

Re: vietnam 10Glocks #18554233 07/03/23
Joined: Dec 2013 Posts: 44,659 Likes: 22 south of south local_dirt Campfire 'Bwana
local_dirt Campfire 'Bwana Joined: Dec 2013 Posts: 44,659 Likes: 22 south of south	Originally Posted by 10Glocks My dad was the Operations Officer of the 2/94 Field Artillery when it deployed from Ft. Sill to Camp JJ Carroll in northern South Vietnam. The 2/94 was attached to the 3rd Marine Division and fired their their support, as well as in support of South Korea Army operations in the area. He had lots of great stories. Tales of firing on pink elephants the NVA used to for transport (pink when they rolled in the red clay and the sun baked in on to a pink color), hitting a NVA AA position with the first shot to the excitement of a Marine spotter, using a 175mm gun as a sniper rifle to take out a sniper. Ton of good stories. One of my favorites was the story about the NVA attack on Camp Carroll in March 1967. My dad's tent took a hit from a 122mm rocket (he wasn't in it). But the NVA managed to hit the mess tent blowing it up and sending donuts the cook was making all over. Dad said when the attack was over, Marines were rummaging through the area picking up and eating the donuts. Dad died a couple of years ago. Just a couple of months before my mom did. Here's that old soldier and his wife of well over 60 years years going to their final resting place together. (Dad always had a juvenile sense of humor. Had he seen this, he would have said something about the horse chit to my mom and laughed. My mom would have tensed up and rolled her eyes. LOL.) (And my dad always looked out for my mom. In this pic, it's nearly 100 degrees in August. Dad made sure mom had the A/C.) Great story, 10Glocks. It's sometimes tough being raised by men like your Dad and my Dad. But, it's the greatest blessing one can receive. Slaves get what they need. Free men get what they want. Rehabilitation is way overrated. Orwell wasn't wrong. GOA member disappointed NRA member 24HCF SEARCH

Re: vietnam MJones #18554357 07/03/23
Joined: Jan 2010 Posts: 13,239 Likes: 4 Willamette Valley, Oregon P Pharmseller Campfire Outfitter
Pharmseller Campfire Outfitter P Joined: Jan 2010 Posts: 13,239 Likes: 4 Willamette Valley, Oregon	You bastards are welcome at my fire, anytime, and I’ll buy the beer. P Obey lawful commands. Video interactions. Hold bad cops accountable. Problem solved. ~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~ Member #547 Join date 3/09/2001

Re: vietnam MJones #18554511 07/03/23
Joined: May 2008 Posts: 25,542 Likes: 9 Valhalla SE AK & WA A AcesNeights Campfire Ranger
AcesNeights Campfire Ranger A Joined: May 2008 Posts: 25,542 Likes: 9 Valhalla SE AK & WA	I can’t stand it when good men are disparaged or their contributions are minimized because some want to paint with a very broad brush using the actions of a few to reflect on the whole. It’s inaccurate and dishonest to try and paint everyone with that ignorant broad stroke since most guys sacrificed a lot while 60,000+ men sacrificed everything doing what they were asked to do. They don’t get to make decisions or have an opinion, they do what they’re told and they do it well. Later in the war the attitudes of the draftee army wasn’t the same as the all volunteer force that preceded it but that’s to be expected. My father in law was extremely proud of his decade+ in Vietnam and Laos with Air America. He was a very easy going guy that avoided getting angry or upset but if anyone insinuated that Air America was involved in drug running he’d get angry. He said that there were undoubtedly guys that did illegal things but they were definitely a minority and he personally knew of no one that did that crap. Nothing will piss off the good guys like drawing a comparison between them and the bad guys….rightfully so! �Politicians are the lowest form of life on earth. Liberal Democrats are the lowest form of politician.� �General George S. Patton, Jr. --------------------------------------------------------- ~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~

Re: vietnam MJones #18554899 07/03/23
Joined: Jul 2005 Posts: 23,522 Likes: 1 Alaska valley trash 7 79S Campfire Ranger
79S Campfire Ranger 7 Joined: Jul 2005 Posts: 23,522 Likes: 1 Alaska valley trash	Saw this at the local VA vet center Originally Posted by Bricktop Then STFU. The rest of your statement is superflous bullshit with no real bearing on this discussion other than to massage your own ego. Suckin' on my titties like you wanted me.

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