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I have taken and been in on the taking of around 100 elk. I have seen them shot with everything from a 243 Win to a 375 H&H. I personally consider the 243 to be too light but it did work on some cows. But, I have never seen it used on a mature bull which is a completely different animal than a cow, and the guy that used the 243 was a local rancher. He could wait for the perfect shot and knew where to place that little 100 gr bullet. In my mind I'd say the 6.5x55 Swede and 270 Win are the lightest that I'd suggest. Never seen one shot with any other 6.5 than the Swede which is why I mention it but I'd imagine any of the new 6.5s would be as effective.
For me I like a happy medium in elk since they come in lots of different sizes and shots can be at any range. 7mm Mag is my favorite round and the one I have used the most. Well there is always lively discussion on the Fire! My personal biases pretty much mirrors the above. There is a difference between bulls and cows and 6mm is on the light side for either IMHO. Not to say it hasn't been done by the 243Win and even smaller cartridges with good bullets and selective shot placement but a quartering away bull at 300 yards as Mike Dettore suggested? Not me. I would consider that to be a 270Win minimum scenario. Of course there is a huge difference between someone who lives in elk country and has lots of opportunity and someone who travels long distance for a 5 day hunt.
I am continually astounded at how quickly people make up their minds on little evidence or none at all. Jack O'Connor
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So remove the "mentoring" aspect, make it just two hunters. I suspect that a good percentage of the pairs of hunters would be having a conversation about using the other rifle. The issue I am discussing above is not can it, the issue is about confidence and how confidence changes when you get out at the margins.
Internet analysis: 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact Fools & fanatics are always so certain and wise people are always so questioning
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So remove the "mentoring" aspect, make it just two hunters. I suspect that a good percentage of the pairs of hunters would be having a conversation about using the other rifle. The issue I am discussing above is not can it, the issue is about confidence and how confidence changes when you get out at the margins. Nothing about the situation you described sounds marginal to me. Obviously depending on atmospheric conditions (ie wind), shooting position, bullet selection, etc. At 300yds my 6 creed w/ 108eldm is going 2600fps.
Last edited by Jackson_Handy; 08/05/23.
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I've shot a couple with a 270 and several more with 308. I'm 100% comfortable at your given ranges with both cartridges. Personally I won't go below the 270.
Adversity doesn't build character, it reveals it.
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With conventional lead core bullets, I’d say .270. With Barnes or other good mono, a fast .257 or .264. 😎
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With conventional lead core bullets, I’d say .270. With Barnes or other good mono, a fast .257 or .264. 😎 That would explain why so many folks believe .24cal, 25cal, 26cal, cartridges don't kill effectively. Narrow wound channels take longer to kill animals. why match bullets threadIn all seriousness, go read that thread then re-read it.
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The right shot placement through a lung (s) the heart means death it’s not theory. Small hole big hole doesn’t make any difference. But the optimal side shot on elk or moose from my experience is more magazine dreaming than real life. If you want to put down a large ungulate rather than where he or she scrambled off to in tough country with the sun going down then you need to break the big bones that they need to run. Shoulder bones broken up with heavy bullets and calibers put them face down — game over cause you most like not only take out the front legs but bone fragments will take out lungs and the heart too. Splintered up hip bones will slow them down but I’ve seen my share of three legged elk climb over the top and feed coyotes.
Rick
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With conventional lead core bullets, I’d say .270. With Barnes or other good mono, a fast .257 or .264. 😎 That would explain why so many folks believe .24cal, 25cal, 26cal, cartridges don't kill effectively. Narrow wound channels take longer to kill animals. why match bullets threadIn all seriousness, go read that thread then re-read it. Still a lot of opinion just like this thread. Question asked and answered. Take it for what it’s worth. WAM, out.
Life Member NRA, RMEF, American Legion, MAGA. Not necessarily in that order.
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With conventional lead core bullets, I’d say .270. With Barnes or other good mono, a fast .257 or .264. 😎 That would explain why so many folks believe .24cal, 25cal, 26cal, cartridges don't kill effectively. Narrow wound channels take longer to kill animals. why match bullets threadIn all seriousness, go read that thread then re-read it. Still a lot of opinion just like this thread. Question asked and answered. Take it for what it’s worth. WAM, out. There are direct quotes from terminal ballistic studies and experts in the field of study. I would consider that peer reviewed data...not opinion. You have been led to water.
Last edited by Jackson_Handy; 08/05/23.
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Ballistics typed on paper is not what always happens in hunting conditions.
What do you think would put an elk down quicker at 100 yards........... A 220 Swift with with a 55 grain bullet or a 410 grain from a 45-70?
220 Swift energy is 1,004 by the book. 45-70 energy is 895. I have yet to see a grizzly guide use a 220 Swift, but many carry a 45-70. Yeah I know newer guns can handle potent 45-70 loads, but I have used factory Remington ammo (to old load pressures) in my original 1873 trapdoor to take several elk.
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Ballistics typed on paper is not what always happens in hunting conditions.
What do you think would put an elk down quicker at 100 yards........... A 220 Swift with with a 55 grain bullet or a 410 grain from a 45-70?
220 Swift energy is 1,004 by the book. 45-70 energy is 895. I have yet to see a grizzly guide use a 220 Swift, but many carry a 45-70. Yeah I know newer guns can handle potent 45-70 loads, but I have used factory Remington ammo (to old load pressures) in my original 1873 trapdoor to take several elk. Soooooooo many people believe in and have blind faith in ft/lbs energy……which means near nothing in the real world. Especially, if larger big game is involved! memtb
You should not use a rifle that will kill an animal when everything goes right; you should use one that will do the job when everything goes wrong." -Bob Hagel
“I’d like to be a good rifleman…..but, I prefer to be a good hunter”! memtb 2024
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Lb ft of energy is irrelevant
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Lb ft of energy is irrelevant I assume that this was a question, with a dash of sarcasm……if so, my response is a resounding “yes”! memtb
You should not use a rifle that will kill an animal when everything goes right; you should use one that will do the job when everything goes wrong." -Bob Hagel
“I’d like to be a good rifleman…..but, I prefer to be a good hunter”! memtb 2024
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6mm to 30cal…. Placed right. Dead. From my adventures, anyway. If you are a bad shot, go bigger…. You still will miss, but you “had enough gun”. WWDD?
Have Dog
Will Travel
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Lb ft of energy is irrelevant I assume that this was a question, with a dash of sarcasm……if so, my response is a resounding “yes”! memtb It was a statement. Pretty clearly written too.
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I wouldn't worry too much about a 243 or 25-06 out in the open country in Wyoming and such, since they can travel a bit and usually not end up in some place of hell. Places like Oregon and similar where they can make one leap and its straight down into a nightmare of timber and so damned steeped you have to tie them up to butcher them to keep them from sliding. But hand me a 243, 25-06, whatever and I am still going elk hunting.
I know there are overlap and everyplace has it's own nightmare though.
Haven't killed an elk or seen many killed yet where a good 270 with a decent bullet wouldn't have done the work.
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I wouldn't worry too much about a 243 or 25-06 out in the open country in Wyoming and such, since they can travel a bit and usually not end up in some place of hell. Places like Oregon and similar where they can make one leap and its straight down into a nightmare of timber and so damned steeped you have to tie them up to butcher them to keep them from sliding. But hand me a 243, 25-06, whatever and I am still going elk hunting.
I know there are overlap and everyplace has it's own nightmare though.
Haven't killed an elk or seen many killed yet where a good 270 with a decent bullet wouldn't have done the work. This exactly. ^
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. Haven't killed an elk or seen many killed yet where a good 270 with a decent bullet wouldn't have done the work. But a 35 Whelen would have done the work most efficiently
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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In my experience elk are tough animals, I prefer 270 and up with Partition or Barnes bullets.
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Lb ft of energy is irrelevant I assume that this was a question, with a dash of sarcasm……if so, my response is a resounding “yes”! memtb It was a statement. Pretty clearly written too. Try using punctuation….it may help others determine what you are attempting to communicate! 🤬 memtb
You should not use a rifle that will kill an animal when everything goes right; you should use one that will do the job when everything goes wrong." -Bob Hagel
“I’d like to be a good rifleman…..but, I prefer to be a good hunter”! memtb 2024
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