Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters 338 Wby RPM

It IS the rifle that makes the package interesting - to SOME! Without the brake and a 1 lb scope with accessaries, it's NOT so interesting anymore with ~60 ft-lbs recoil! I wrote on this after it was made official by Weatherby, comparing it to my .35 Whelen. I'll keep my 7.5 lb Whelen (all-up), THANK YOU VERY MUCH which has similar ballistics (2840 fps from a 225 AB) from a 22" barrel using less powder. Like the .338 RPM, it too has a brake reducing recoil to ~ 32 -33 ft-lbs. Quite tolerable compared to a .338 Win without a brake, and especially the .338 RPM.

Bob
www.bigbores.ca

Almost regret initiating this thread.
Nastiness and vitriol thanks to a couple of fellows who don’t care for one another.
Take it elsewhere please.

Precisely why I participate less and less.
The "hunter's campfire" is basically, "you're stupid, no you're stupid" and I go there for the meme thread.
It sucks that the vitriol has bleed into the rest of this site.
Bullies and loudmouths have taken over the and its about time to leave. One will be along shortly to point at the door..... and prove my point.

OGB
Your motto succinctly states my thoughts. “Bore size is no substitute for shot placement and power is no substitute for bullet performance” quoting 458WIN

I have decided to abandon the acquisition of another 338 bore cartridge. I have had many between 338-06 thru 340 Wby. I have never observed on game performance that is better than my 270. Obviously the 338’s work but they either are harder kicking or have rounder trajectories.

I have a 375 H&H for buffalo and don’t plan on hunting anything else that requires that category of cartridge. If I didn’t have that rifle I would strongly consider a 9.3-62. Both are really great.

Muzzle brakes stuff your hearing up with long-term use, annoy everyone else such as when you are on a guided hunt or hunting with someone else, result in a longer less-handier rifle and add weight right at the end of the muzzle where it counts. I would much rather add on half a pound in weight than have a muzzle brake. But that's just me, if you like them, use them. A .338 Win Mag in a 9lb rifle is quite reasonable to shoot. In terms of trajectory, if you're going to have a .338 Win Mag., you'd be best using a .375 H & H length action and magazine, throating long and getting more velocity with mono projectiles. A 225 E-tip running close to 3000 fps has a similar trajectory to a .270 Win with 140's. Reloder 17 gets you there. I am sorry if I made anybody cry...I'm sure there's several people who love you and care for you. Hey OGB, toughen up you little softie.

Riflehunter,
I'm with you on the muzzle brake for sure. I find them obnoxiously distracting and I have enough hearing loss as it is!

RinB,
In the same boat (with far less experience than you) if I feel the need for more than my 30-06 I'll use my 375R or 9.3X62.

Incidentally, I value the EXPERIENCE of everyone here just choose to not participate when threads devolve.

No harm, no foul

Just for the record, I too hated brakes until I reached eighty and a serious bout of arthritis. To keep shooting what I like, I had to take some practical steps: including Mag-na- Porting on my .458 (it came with that), reduced loads and a bit of extra overall weight in the rifles. Protection of hearing is certainly a priority, but so is one's eyes, bones, ligiments and muscles.

And I'm not disagreeing with RinB - whom I genuinely appreciate.

And also for the record, the 9.3 x 62 is one of my all-time favourites.

Bob
www.bigbores.ca

I seriously considered the 9.3 x 62, mainly because of the heavy 286, 300 grain projectiles. At close distances it would be great. But how many hunts do you go on and find that you have to shoot well beyond 300 yards, even though you thought the shots would be close-range? It's happened to me several times and I'm glad that I took the .338 Win Mag, because it's great for close range, medium range and the longer shots.

Riflehunter,

Have mentioned this in several places over the years, but the 9.3x62 loaded to "modern" pressures (60,000 psi) will push a high-BC 250-grain bullet to 2650-2700 fps, depending on barrel length. Dunno what your definition is of "longer shots, but this load has the same basic trajectory as the .30-06 with 180s at the "traditional" 2700 fps," which works very well out to at least 450 yards, even without a "dialing" scope. Did it for years even before laser rangefinders, by using the scope reticle as a rangefinder.

If you believe in lighter bullets at higher velocity, the 9.3 210-grain Cutting Edge Raptor can easily get 2850-2900 fps.

Mule Deer, 450 yards is a long shot for all but a small percentage of hunters to do with a medium bore, especially with a 180 grain - .30-06 - type - trajectory. I'm not saying that a hunter with a lot of experience who also shoots a lot can't do it, they can. But for the average hunter...it is difficult. With my .338 I'm loading at around 2975 fps with the 225's. That's a bit flatter than 180's in a .30-06 at 2700. Note: Jack O'Connor's hand-load was a 180 at 2700 fps from his 22" .30-06 and he said that the .270 Win shoots flatter and is easier to hit game with. At around 2975 fps with 225's, the .338 has the same trajectory as the .270 Win at 3000 fps with 140's, which is what he said the .270 achieved with 140's.

With this muzzle brake, recoil thing, it's often not the actual recoil that is the problem. It's usually your brain sending a message to you because of the "fear of recoil". And often it's not the recoil that causes the "fear of recoil", but the noise or muzzle blast that causes that fear. Now if you are getting near 80, then things may be a bit different and the actual recoil may be an issue, especially in a .45. But for many others, think about the blast causing much of the problem.

The .308 and .338 calibers are incredibly versatile. Both utilize a 1-10 twist with the .308 caliber pushing 110 gr - 230 gr loads. While the .338 caliber will push 165 gr - 275 gr loads. That’s a great deal of versatility. That’s why the .308s and .338s are still so popular in North America as well as Africa. Each caliber covers several hunting needs with one off-the-shelf rifle utilizing one twist rate on multiple projectile weights for use on big or small game up close and far away.

Yeh, and you can get more out of your .308 if your action can accommodate a 3" magazine box. For example, I'm getting over 2900 fps with the 150 E-tips and over 2700 fps with the 180's with a long throat, a bit more powder and a 3" long magazine box and seating long with a 22" tube.

I don't think you will ever get it, whether "killing power" or relatively small differences in trajectory--which don't matter much with LRFs. Even in the 22" barreled .338 I hunted with for a dozen years from Alaska to Africa my 225-grain handloads got around 2850 fps. So what? That amounts to maybe 1-2" difference in trajectory than your handloads at 400 yards--which makes zip difference on even deer-sized game.

One of the things I also noticed about the .338 (as other experienced hunters have) is that on average it didn't kill any quicker than smaller cartridges. The very first big game animal I killed with mine, using a 250-grain Partition at around 2700 fps, was an eating-sized mule deer buck shot at around 60 yards in a quaking aspen thicket during the last week of Montana's 1988 rifle season. There was about 6-8 inches of fresh snow on the ground, and I found the tracks of a small herd and could follow them pretty much silently.

Eventually got an angling-away shot at the buck, and aimed for the rear of the left ribs. At the shot he didn't even react, just kept walking along until he went behind another group of aspens. Found him there dead, 60 yards beyond where I'd shot him, and the bullet had opened nicely and exited through the right shoulder.

Also killed a 58" Alaskan moose with a 230-grain Fail Safe bullet in 1996 (The Fail Safe acted just about exactly like the Barnes TSX.) The bull was standing on the high bank of a mid-sized salmon river, angling toward me. Put the bullet inside the left shoulder, and the bull reared up on its hind legs, then rolled down in to the flat gravel bank along the river. But then he got up and staggered into the river before I could shoot again (while the guide was emphatically saying, "Don't shoot him in the river) where he died in the middle of the deepest water, only the two tines of one antler showing above the surface.

I managed to get a rope around the antler, and then we dragged him downriver with the guide's jet-boat to the shallower riffle below the pool. We then spent five hours butchering the bull from the top down, surrounded by a cloud of mosquitoes, and after removing every 50 pounds or so of meat heaved the bull's carcass a little closer to the bank. Recovered the Fail Safe, retaining 96% of its weight, lying against the front side of the bull's pelvis. Oh, and there was a hole through the top of the bull's heart.

Could go on at length with similar examples from North America and Africa. Eventually came to the conclusion that the .338 didn't kill any quicker, on average, than the .300 Winchester Magnum, or even the .30-06 using bullets of the same make and similar sectional density. Some other very experienced hunters have also suggested the same thing, including one well-known Alaskan brown bear guide. All of which is partly why I eventually decided even larger caliber, heavier bullets do better on larger game.

I would bet RinB has killed far more big game than you, especially dangerous. He grew up in Idaho when mule deer were very abundant, and killed a B&C buck when very young--along with a bunch of other game. He's also hunted in a lot of other places for since, including taking five Cape buffalo this year alone.

Mule Deer, while I appreciate your views on various aspects and do attach quite a bit of weight to them because of your experience and research, that doesn't mean that everything you state I accept. Your opinions of various things are opinions, which should be afforded a reasonable weighting, but are not the final word. Now I have been quite respectful and polite in response to your posts, but if you are going to be disrespectful to me, when I have been respectful to you...then that will all change. I do agree with you with the numbers game. Elmer Keith shot 50 elk in his lifetime, so anybody who has shot less than that isn't in a position to think they know more about shooting elk than him.

Yeah, however I was talking caliber not chamber. The 308 WCF is only one chamber of the many .308 calibers/chambers.

Ok, I accept that.

This thread took a turn for the worse. Been gone for a few days and the ugliness came out.

I have a different view on where diameter starts to make a visible difference. For me it starts with 338 caliber when bullet construction and shot placement are similar.

If Mule Deer and 458 think that 358 diameter is where it starts, no big deal. I know what I have experienced. It is my opinion and YMMV.

If I can not get my elk tag filled with my longbow this fall, I will not hesitate to grab one of the 338-06's shooting 200-210gr bullets. I have zero doubt that it will do the job, and put meat in the freezer.

Looking at numbers though, If the 0.02" difference between a 338 and 358 makes a difference. How can 0.03" difference between a 308 and 338 not make a difference?

What's going to be relevant is percentage differences in diameter as opposed to actual diameter differences. But it's not exactly percentage differences in diameter. It's the percentage change in the square of the radius (pi cancels out). For example, an increase from .308 to .338 is roughly 10 percentage increase in diameter, from .338 to .358 is roughly 5.9% (if my quick calculations are correct), but it's the percentage change in the square of half of the diameter that is really the correct analysis and that gives different figures.

Yes, the percentage increase is going to differ between diameter and frontal area.

Put the majority of hunting bullets, at normal velocities, in the right place and you will have the same result. A full freezer. No matter the diameter, within reason of course.

I like my 338-06's, but must admit that I shoot the majority of my stuff with a 270. Gasp! another 0.03" smaller in diameter vs a 308, or 0.06" smaller than a 338!