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Originally Posted by Riflehunter
Originally Posted by jwp475
Originally Posted by Riflehunter
Originally Posted by jwp475
Originally Posted by Riflehunter
Originally Posted by jwp475
And Elmer was flat out wrong just like you are
Better to use logical argument, as Mule Deer does, rather than respond like you have.


So facts are meaningless to you? Elmer was flat out wrong.

Go into the Terminal Bullet Performance thread here and learn


https://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/frm/f/4711043
You are the one who quoted Elmer Keith, I responded that he clearly stated that .333-06 and .338-06 was better than .35 Whelen because of sectional density. Then you mean to say anyone with experience doesn't quote sectional density. I responded that Elmer Keith had considerable experience. Don't blame me if you are unable to discuss something logically without getting upset when someone points out flaws in your logic.


You can't follow a trail of logic, I said Elmer was wrong and that is a fact. If you read through the thread that I linked the proof is there with penetration testing proving it
Those who argue that Elmer Keith was wrong about most things are not stating fact, they are giving their opinion. High sectional density of heavier bullets can result in deeper penetration. I don't know why you would disagree with this. The more you say such things as "Elmer Keith was wrong and so are you" and "go xxx and learn" the dumber you sound, especially when you have demonstrated that you have an inability to logically argue something.


When you refuse to look at the thread that I linked which has penetration test that prove exactly what I am saying show your ignorance and dumbfucuktitude.



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Originally Posted by prairie_goat
Originally Posted by Riflehunter
I did re-read what you wrote slowly as suggested. You said that it is expanded diameter that matters rather than the slightly bigger than fingernail unexpanded diameter. But my question was if you used a mono bullet (perhaps a Barnes TSX) of the same weight in both a .338 and .358, that was of similar shape, what would be the factor which would make the expanded diameter of the .358 considerably larger than that of the .338 bullet so as to make the .358 bullet kill better (when the .338 bullet has much better sectional density)? I would have thought that because both bullets were of the same construction (all copper), same shaped nose, that the longer .338 bullet with better sectional density would expand nearly as much (especially being longer),but penetrate deeper because of sectional density being better. Assume same velocity of perhaps 2750 fps.
It doesn't effing matter. What you kill with one you'll kill with the other.
Well if it doesn't matter, and what you would kill with one you would kill with the other, then that supports the view that the .358 Whelen DOES NOT KILL better than the .338-06, which is exactly what I have been arguing!

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Originally Posted by jwp475
Originally Posted by Riflehunter
Originally Posted by jwp475
Originally Posted by Riflehunter
Originally Posted by jwp475
Originally Posted by Riflehunter
Originally Posted by jwp475
And Elmer was flat out wrong just like you are
Better to use logical argument, as Mule Deer does, rather than respond like you have.


So facts are meaningless to you? Elmer was flat out wrong.

Go into the Terminal Bullet Performance thread here and learn


https://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/frm/f/4711043
You are the one who quoted Elmer Keith, I responded that he clearly stated that .333-06 and .338-06 was better than .35 Whelen because of sectional density. Then you mean to say anyone with experience doesn't quote sectional density. I responded that Elmer Keith had considerable experience. Don't blame me if you are unable to discuss something logically without getting upset when someone points out flaws in your logic.


You can't follow a trail of logic, I said Elmer was wrong and that is a fact. If you read through the thread that I linked the proof is there with penetration testing proving it
Those who argue that Elmer Keith was wrong about most things are not stating fact, they are giving their opinion. High sectional density of heavier bullets can result in deeper penetration. I don't know why you would disagree with this. The more you say such things as "Elmer Keith was wrong and so are you" and "go xxx and learn" the dumber you sound, especially when you have demonstrated that you have an inability to logically argue something.


When you refuse to look at the thread that I linked which has penetration test that prove exactly what I am saying show your ignorance and dumbfucuktitude.
Go steal Little Stick's terminology "dumbfucukitude" why don't you?

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Originally Posted by Riflehunter
Originally Posted by jwp475
Originally Posted by Riflehunter
Originally Posted by jwp475
Originally Posted by Riflehunter
Originally Posted by jwp475
Originally Posted by Riflehunter
Originally Posted by jwp475
And Elmer was flat out wrong just like you are
Better to use logical argument, as Mule Deer does, rather than respond like you have.


So facts are meaningless to you? Elmer was flat out wrong.

Go into the Terminal Bullet Performance thread here and learn


https://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/frm/f/4711043
You are the one who quoted Elmer Keith, I responded that he clearly stated that .333-06 and .338-06 was better than .35 Whelen because of sectional density. Then you mean to say anyone with experience doesn't quote sectional density. I responded that Elmer Keith had considerable experience. Don't blame me if you are unable to discuss something logically without getting upset when someone points out flaws in your logic.


You can't follow a trail of logic, I said Elmer was wrong and that is a fact. If you read through the thread that I linked the proof is there with penetration testing proving it
Those who argue that Elmer Keith was wrong about most things are not stating fact, they are giving their opinion. High sectional density of heavier bullets can result in deeper penetration. I don't know why you would disagree with this. The more you say such things as "Elmer Keith was wrong and so are you" and "go xxx and learn" the dumber you sound, especially when you have demonstrated that you have an inability to logically argue something.


When you refuse to look at the thread that I linked which has penetration test that prove exactly what I am saying show your ignorance and dumbfucuktitude.
Go steal Little Stick's terminology "dumbfucukitude" why don't you?


The term fits you perfectly. 👌



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The term doesn't fit me perfectly. You are only saying that because you have to resort to being derogatory about me personally rather than being able to logically argue something. Once you fall into that trap, you lose credibility.

IC B2

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Originally Posted by Riflehunter
The term doesn't fit me perfectly. You are only saying that because you have to resort to being derogatory about me personally rather than being able to logically argue something. Once you fall into that trap, you lose credibility.


If you will go to the thread that I linked you will find the penetration testing that proves what I said
Apparently you are to stupid to do that.



I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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I can’t imagine how many animals you’d have to take to see any difference using similar bullets.


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Originally Posted by jwp475
Originally Posted by Riflehunter
The term doesn't fit me perfectly. You are only saying that because you have to resort to being derogatory about me personally rather than being able to logically argue something. Once you fall into that trap, you lose credibility.


If you will go to the thread that I linked you will find the penetration testing that proves what I said
Apparently you are to stupid to do that.
"to stupid"? dumbo it's "too stupid"! Why don't you specifically state exactly what the tests prove and how they "prove" what you say?

Last edited by Riflehunter; 08/09/23.
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Originally Posted by Riflehunter
Originally Posted by jwp475
Originally Posted by Riflehunter
The term doesn't fit me perfectly. You are only saying that because you have to resort to being derogatory about me personally rather than being able to logically argue something. Once you fall into that trap, you lose credibility.


If you will go to the thread that I linked you will find the penetration testing that proves what I said
Apparently you are to stupid to do that.
"to stupid"? dumbo it's "too stupid"! Why don't you specifically state exactly what the tests prove and how they "prove" what you say?

Why don't you get someone to read it to you.



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Originally Posted by jwp475
Originally Posted by Riflehunter
Originally Posted by jwp475
Originally Posted by Riflehunter
The term doesn't fit me perfectly. You are only saying that because you have to resort to being derogatory about me personally rather than being able to logically argue something. Once you fall into that trap, you lose credibility.


If you will go to the thread that I linked you will find the penetration testing that proves what I said
Apparently you are to stupid to do that.
"to stupid"? dumbo it's "too stupid"! Why don't you specifically state exactly what the tests prove and how they "prove" what you say?

Why don't you get someone to read it to you.
Because you're the one who is referring to "evidence" without specifying the particular which is supportive of your argument. That would be like me saying "look at that picture, there's proof" to which you might possibly say "proof of what?" This is a .338 thread and you had to be a troll with your .358 interjections.

IC B3

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Originally Posted by Riflehunter
Originally Posted by jwp475
Originally Posted by Riflehunter
Originally Posted by jwp475
Originally Posted by Riflehunter
The term doesn't fit me perfectly. You are only saying that because you have to resort to being derogatory about me personally rather than being able to logically argue something. Once you fall into that trap, you lose credibility.


If you will go to the thread that I linked you will find the penetration testing that proves what I said
Apparently you are to stupid to do that.
"to stupid"? dumbo it's "too stupid"! Why don't you specifically state exactly what the tests prove and how they "prove" what you say?

Why don't you get someone to read it to you.
Because you're the one who is referring to "evidence" without specifying the particular which is supportive of your argument. That would be like me saying "look at that picture, there's proof" to which you might possibly say "proof of what?" This is a .338 thread and you had to be a troll with your .358 interjections.

I'm not going to hold your hand. Sorry



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Originally Posted by jwp475
Originally Posted by Riflehunter
Originally Posted by jwp475
Originally Posted by Riflehunter
Originally Posted by jwp475
Originally Posted by Riflehunter
The term doesn't fit me perfectly. You are only saying that because you have to resort to being derogatory about me personally rather than being able to logically argue something. Once you fall into that trap, you lose credibility.


If you will go to the thread that I linked you will find the penetration testing that proves what I said
Apparently you are to stupid to do that.
"to stupid"? dumbo it's "too stupid"! Why don't you specifically state exactly what the tests prove and how they "prove" what you say?

Why don't you get someone to read it to you.
Because you're the one who is referring to "evidence" without specifying the particular which is supportive of your argument. That would be like me saying "look at that picture, there's proof" to which you might possibly say "proof of what?" This is a .338 thread and you had to be a troll with your .358 interjections.

I'm not going to hold your hand. Sorry
And I would appreciate it if you kept your disrespectful comments about Elmer Keith to yourself. He contributed and knew and did, far more, than do-nothing no-names such as yourself could ever hope to understand.

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Gentleman this is RinB question of 338 RPM. let’s stay on point. But this cartridge has a rebated rim, what might it be in favor over 338 win mag? I am curious.

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Originally Posted by smallfry
Gentleman this is RinB question of 338 RPM. let’s stay on point. But this cartridge has a rebated rim, what might it be in favor over 338 win mag? I am curious.
It's the rifle/cartridge package...much lighter rifle. But as one gentleman previously pointed out, 8lbs including scope is about the perfect weight for the .338 RCM or .338-06 for most people to be able to shoot accurately, so I for one wouldn't want more performance in a lighter package.

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Originally Posted by Riflehunter
Originally Posted by jwp475
Originally Posted by Riflehunter
Originally Posted by jwp475
Originally Posted by Riflehunter
Originally Posted by jwp475
Originally Posted by Riflehunter
The term doesn't fit me perfectly. You are only saying that because you have to resort to being derogatory about me personally rather than being able to logically argue something. Once you fall into that trap, you lose credibility.


If you will go to the thread that I linked you will find the penetration testing that proves what I said
Apparently you are to stupid to do that.
"to stupid"? dumbo it's "too stupid"! Why don't you specifically state exactly what the tests prove and how they "prove" what you say?

Why don't you get someone to read it to you.
Because you're the one who is referring to "evidence" without specifying the particular which is supportive of your argument. That would be like me saying "look at that picture, there's proof" to which you might possibly say "proof of what?" This is a .338 thread and you had to be a troll with your .358 interjections.

I'm not going to hold your hand. Sorry
And I would appreciate it if you kept your disrespectful comments about Elmer Keith to yourself. He contributed and knew and did, far more, than do-nothing no-names such as yourself could ever hope to understand.


So you think he was never wrong. 🤔



I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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Originally Posted by Riflehunter
Originally Posted by jwp475
Originally Posted by Riflehunter
Originally Posted by jwp475
Originally Posted by Riflehunter
Originally Posted by jwp475
Originally Posted by Riflehunter
The term doesn't fit me perfectly. You are only saying that because you have to resort to being derogatory about me personally rather than being able to logically argue something. Once you fall into that trap, you lose credibility.


If you will go to the thread that I linked you will find the penetration testing that proves what I said
Apparently you are to stupid to do that.
"to stupid"? dumbo it's "too stupid"! Why don't you specifically state exactly what the tests prove and how they "prove" what you say?

Why don't you get someone to read it to you.
Because you're the one who is referring to "evidence" without specifying the particular which is supportive of your argument. That would be like me saying "look at that picture, there's proof" to which you might possibly say "proof of what?" This is a .338 thread and you had to be a troll with your .358 interjections.

I'm not going to hold your hand. Sorry
And I would appreciate it if you kept your disrespectful comments about Elmer Keith to yourself. He contributed and knew and did, far more, than do-nothing no-names such as yourself could ever hope to understand.


OK Elmer was wrong SD doesn't accurately always predict penetration here is a case in point, a 550 grain 458 caliber bullet is put penetrates by a 325 grain 458 caliber bullet much less SD for the 325 grain bullet



[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]


[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]

Last edited by jwp475; 08/10/23.


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Originally Posted by Riflehunter
Originally Posted by smallfry
Gentleman this is RinB question of 338 RPM. let’s stay on point. But this cartridge has a rebated rim, what might it be in favor over 338 win mag? I am curious.
It's the rifle/cartridge package...much lighter rifle. But as one gentleman previously pointed out, 8lbs including scope is about the perfect weight for the .338 RCM or .338-06 for most people to be able to shoot accurately, so I for one wouldn't want more performance in a lighter package.

My utterly unqualified view is this. It's the package. They make a version that is a short little carbine and I think it would be just the thing for an Alaskan bear guide. It might not be fun off the bench but shooting off your hind legs (as Mule Deer puts it) you'd hardly notice it. Pricey but a good investment.


Bore size is no substitute for shot placement and
Power is no substitute for bullet performance. 458WIN
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Originally Posted by jwp475
Originally Posted by Riflehunter
Originally Posted by jwp475
Originally Posted by Riflehunter
Originally Posted by jwp475
Originally Posted by Riflehunter
Originally Posted by jwp475
Originally Posted by Riflehunter
The term doesn't fit me perfectly. You are only saying that because you have to resort to being derogatory about me personally rather than being able to logically argue something. Once you fall into that trap, you lose credibility.


If you will go to the thread that I linked you will find the penetration testing that proves what I said
Apparently you are to stupid to do that.
"to stupid"? dumbo it's "too stupid"! Why don't you specifically state exactly what the tests prove and how they "prove" what you say?

Why don't you get someone to read it to you.
Because you're the one who is referring to "evidence" without specifying the particular which is supportive of your argument. That would be like me saying "look at that picture, there's proof" to which you might possibly say "proof of what?" This is a .338 thread and you had to be a troll with your .358 interjections.

I'm not going to hold your hand. Sorry
And I would appreciate it if you kept your disrespectful comments about Elmer Keith to yourself. He contributed and knew and did, far more, than do-nothing no-names such as yourself could ever hope to understand.


So you think he was never wrong. 🤔
Stop being a troll. Elmer was wrong far less times than just about anyone else.

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[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]


[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]



I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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Originally Posted by OGB
Originally Posted by Riflehunter
Originally Posted by smallfry
Gentleman this is RinB question of 338 RPM. let’s stay on point. But this cartridge has a rebated rim, what might it be in favor over 338 win mag? I am curious.
It's the rifle/cartridge package...much lighter rifle. But as one gentleman previously pointed out, 8lbs including scope is about the perfect weight for the .338 RCM or .338-06 for most people to be able to shoot accurately, so I for one wouldn't want more performance in a lighter package.

My utterly unqualified view is this. It's the package. They make a version that is a short little carbine and I think it would be just the thing for an Alaskan bear guide. It might not be fun off the bench but shooting off your hind legs (as Mule Deer puts it) you'd hardly notice it. Pricey but a good investment.
To get the package which is very light, you also need the cartridge with the rebated rim because of the smaller bolt-face than the usual heavier Mark V's. Without the larger diameter case body, you're not going to get the high performance. That is why I said it's the rifle/cartridge package.

Last edited by Riflehunter; 08/10/23.
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